Buffy fans: Why was Adam received so harshly?

[Ethros]

I remember reading somewhere once that the original idea for the Big Bad of Season 4 would be the Professor of Demonology at UC Sunnydale

 

[DevilEyes]

I think another problem was the season before was probably the best year for Buffy and the big enemy Faith and The Mayor were utterly brilliant...

Hard to top that really.

But someone might have said the same after season 2: "How are they going to follow up or top this epic storyline?" And yet they did.

Season 4 is not one of BtVS's best, but I think it's underrated - in the sense that it's not a bad season as people make it out to be. I like all Buffy seasons, including season 1 which is the weakest of the TV show (but was still good enough to get me to watch it, even though I only got hooked in season 2), and there are even lots of things I like about season 8. But I agree that season 4 was the season with the weakest main storyline. It's not that I had problems with the Initiative story and Adam when I was watching it, as much as that they're just forgettable. All the best episodes of season 4 are standalone and character stories that have nothing to do with the Initiative. (Although Adam has a good cameo in "Restless", which is probably the most memorable moment from him ever.) In the end I mostly remember the Initiative as the guys that put the chip in Spike's head.

I agree that it probably would have been a better story if Walsh had remained on the show longer, she was a stronger character and we would have had the 'evil mother' figure (like we had the 'evil father' figure the previous year), with her established relationship with Riley and rivalry with Giles.

 

[Ethros]

I always figured the launch of Angel was a reason why Season 4 wasn't the best it could have been.


I also love the appearance of Adam (and all the other Big Bads, via the First Evil) in the Season 7 opener. One of the best scenes ever!

 

[saturn5]

I always figured the launch of Angel was a reason why Season 4 wasn't the best it could have been.


I also love the appearance of Adam (and all the other Big Bads, via the First Evil) in the Season 7 opener. One of the best scenes ever!

Yeah, great scene, they were so lucky to be able to get all the Big Bads back, shows how powerful the pull of the show was.
As for season 4, I think that was part of it, Joss spread himself a little thin in the later years with Firefly etc But also Buffy worked best in High School and took it's time to find it's feet without Angel and Cordy

 

[DevilEyes]

I always figured the launch of Angel was a reason why Season 4 wasn't the best it could have been.


I also love the appearance of Adam (and all the other Big Bads, via the First Evil) in the Season 7 opener. One of the best scenes ever!

Yeah, great scene, they were so lucky to be able to get all the Big Bads back, shows how powerful the pull of the show was.
As for season 4, I think that was part of it, Joss spread himself a little thin in the later years with Firefly etc But also Buffy worked best in High School and took it's time to find it's feet without Angel and Cordy

Worked perfectly well for me. Probably helped by the fact that I like Spike and Anya much more anyway (and I like Angel much better on AtS where he was a far more interesting character; Spike had much better chemistry not just with Buffy but with everyone on BtVS). They did make a major misstep by casting Marc Blucas as a love interest though - he and SMG had zero chemistry.

And didn't Joss only work on Firefly during season 6 of Buffy?

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

Yeah Adam wasn't the greatest, and a large problem was his silly makeup design.

It's too bad the series didn't work out as planned, where Walsh was the Big Bad and Adam was just her henchman. The actress quit the show halfway through the season leading to her abrupt death.

Walsh would have worked so much better as the Big Bad because she represents college as a professor and a rival authority figure to Giles (which they only got to touch upon once in "A New Man" as I recall).

you sure? wow, i didn't know that.

but she returned later in finale.

dont think that was the reason

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

I think another problem was the season before was probably the best year for Buffy and the big enemy Faith and The Mayor were utterly brilliant...

Hard to top that really.

But someone might have said the same after season 2: "How are they going to follow up or top this epic storyline?" And yet they did.

Season 4 is not one of BtVS's best, but I think it's underrated - in the sense that it's not a bad season as people make it out to be. I like all Buffy seasons, including season 1 which is the weakest of the TV show (but was still good enough to get me to watch it, even though I only got hooked in season 2), and there are even lots of things I like about season 8. But I agree that season 4 was the season with the weakest main storyline. It's not that I had problems with the Initiative story and Adam when I was watching it, as much as that they're just forgettable. All the best episodes of season 4 are standalone and character stories that have nothing to do with the Initiative. (Although Adam has a good cameo in "Restless", which is probably the most memorable moment from him ever.) In the end I mostly remember the Initiative as the guys that put the chip in Spike's head.

I agree that it probably would have been a better story if Walsh had remained on the show longer, she was a stronger character and we would have had the 'evil mother' figure (like we had the 'evil father' figure the previous year), with her established relationship with Riley and rivalry with Giles.

that wasn't really adam, was it? wasn't he just a normal guy?

 

[PsychoPere]

And didn't Joss only work on Firefly during season 6 of Buffy?

Yeah, Buffy season 4 was in 1999, three years before Firefly.

that wasn't really adam, was it? wasn't he just a normal guy?

It was Adam, pre-Project 314.

 

[exodus]

I think another problem was the season before was probably the best year for Buffy and the big enemy Faith and The Mayor were utterly brilliant...

Hard to top that really.

But someone might have said the same after season 2: "How are they going to follow up or top this epic storyline?" And yet they did.

Season 4 is not one of BtVS's best, but I think it's underrated - in the sense that it's not a bad season as people make it out to be. I like all Buffy seasons, including season 1 which is the weakest of the TV show (but was still good enough to get me to watch it, even though I only got hooked in season 2), and there are even lots of things I like about season 8. But I agree that season 4 was the season with the weakest main storyline. It's not that I had problems with the Initiative story and Adam when I was watching it, as much as that they're just forgettable. All the best episodes of season 4 are standalone and character stories that have nothing to do with the Initiative. (Although Adam has a good cameo in "Restless", which is probably the most memorable moment from him ever.) In the end I mostly remember the Initiative as the guys that put the chip in Spike's head.

I agree that it probably would have been a better story if Walsh had remained on the show longer, she was a stronger character and we would have had the 'evil mother' figure (like we had the 'evil father' figure the previous year), with her established relationship with Riley and rivalry with Giles.

that wasn't really adam, was it? wasn't he just a normal guy?

It was Adam's "pure" form.
The man that was the template they grafted the rest of the monters parts too.
Was it Adam?
Yes & No.

 

[Ethros]

"Before Adam? Not a man among us can remember"

 

[Dream]

Hush and the two parter with Faith were pretty awesome. Those episodes are pretty much the only episodes I rewatch from the season.

 

[label]

Well, I also liked Restless, Pangs (You made a bear, you made a bear) and Something Blue....but yeah, having just re-watched the season a couple weeks back, there isn't much more worth it in that season.

 

[saturn5]

Hush and the two parter with Faith were pretty awesome. Those episodes are pretty much the only episodes I rewatch from the season.

Hush, This Years Girl, Who are you?, Pangs, Something Blue, Primeval, Restless are the peaks of the season, even a weak season of Buffy is still head and shoulders above the competition

 

[I am not Spock]

I always figured the launch of Angel was a reason why Season 4 wasn't the best it could have been.


I also love the appearance of Adam (and all the other Big Bads, via the First Evil) in the Season 7 opener. One of the best scenes ever!

Yeah, great scene, they were so lucky to be able to get all the Big Bads back, shows how powerful the pull of the show was.
As for season 4, I think that was part of it, Joss spread himself a little thin in the later years with Firefly etc But also Buffy worked best in High School and took it's time to find it's feet without Angel and Cordy

Worked perfectly well for me. Probably helped by the fact that I like Spike and Anya much more anyway (and I like Angel much better on AtS where he was a far more interesting character; Spike had much better chemistry not just with Buffy but with everyone on BtVS). They did make a major misstep by casting Marc Blucas as a love interest though - he and SMG had zero chemistry.

And didn't Joss only work on Firefly during season 6 of Buffy?

I liked both Angel and Cordelia a load more when they moved over to Angel. I was happy to get Spike and Anya as their replacements. Shame about Riley, yeah. Blucas is an OK actor, but they didn't give him the most compelling character to work with.

Maybe the fact that Joss was busy setting up Angel is why season 4 suffered. I still liked 4 well enough, though. It's not a bad season by any means. Just a reboot of the show, kind of. It was a transitional year from the high school years, to what the show became later on. Of course the transition will feel kind of awkward. It was awkward for the characters, too.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The odd thing about "Pangs" is that it is great because it's one of the funniest episodes of the entire show, but, ironically, if all the funny parts were taken out, it would be a pretty craptacular episode. In other words, the plot is lame and silly and just doesn't work very well.

And I would have to say "Restless" is the best episode of the season.. As I've stated in other threads, I now consider it the best episode of the show hands down. It's just so masterfully directed--I think it's Joss's best work as a director.

The thing of it is, there really is no "bad" in the episode. "Hush," "The Body" and Feeling all have bits that misfire. (Even if in the smallest degree.) "Restless" doesn't. And everything was so meticulously planned out and executed. Most importantly, I think it's the one episode that improves with subsequent viewings.

 

[saturn5]

The odd thing about "Pangs" is that it is great because it's one of the funniest episodes of the entire show, but, ironically, if all the funny parts were taken out, it would be a pretty craptacular episode. In other words, the plot is lame and silly and just doesn't work very well.

And I would have to say "Restless" is the best episode of the season.. As I've stated in other threads, I now consider it the best episode of the show hands down. It's just so masterfully directed--I think it's Joss's best work as a director.

The thing of it is, there really is no "bad" in the episode. "Hush," "The Body" and Feeling all have bits that misfire. (Even if in the smallest degree.) "Restless" doesn't. And everything was so meticulously planned out and executed. Most importantly, I think it's the one episode that improves with subsequent viewings.

Pangs could have been terrible EXCEPT it relies on the character based humour that we've come to know and love, that's what redeems even the weakest eps of Buffy/Angel, you can always find something good there

 

[DevilEyes]

Who cares about the plot when Pangs has some of the best dialogue of the season? I love the way it pokes fun at everyone trying to be politically correct (well, everyone apart from Spike).

"Will, anything in those books about how to stop a Native American spirit guy? Some nice, non-judgmental way to, you know, kill him?"

 

[Phily B]

I liked him.

I heard the professor woman left the show earlier, so her plot had to be meshed into Adam. I also thought the way he was defeated as a bit cheap, Super Slayer wtf?

 

[Jax]

I liked him.

I heard the professor woman left the show earlier, so her plot had to be meshed into Adam. I also thought the way he was defeated as a bit cheap, Super Slayer wtf?

Yeh was a little deus ex machina for me but it did give us that wonderful and WTF finale episode - oh and that Cheese Man.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

I liked him.

I heard the professor woman left the show earlier, so her plot had to be meshed into Adam. I also thought the way he was defeated as a bit cheap, Super Slayer wtf?

i dont think this is true.

she came back later in the season finale.