Blssdwlf's TOS and TOS Movie Era ships

[Henoch]

I wonder whether one person (Mudd) could operate such a largish ship, plus Mudd seemed lazy so I wouldn't expect him to be a bee hive of work to keep the ship running? 20-50 crew are on the Antares and the Beagle. A 200+ crew on the Enterprise during the Cage; 20 crew even with M5.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I wonder whether one person (Mudd) could operate such a largish ship, plus Mudd seemed lazy so I wouldn't expect him to be a bee hive of work to keep the ship running? 20-50 crew are on the Antares and the Beagle. A 200+ crew on the Enterprise during the Cage; 20 crew even with M5.

Well, he has (or had) all of those clones of himself to keep things running.

 

[aridas sofia]

I always thought “small class J cargo ship, and his engines are super-heating” referred to something different from “cadet vessel… Old Class J star ship” because one said “cargo ship” and the other said “cadet vessel”. At least in nautical terminology, a vessel is anything that floats. A ship specifically refers to a large, ocean-capable vessel. So the reference to Mudd’s vessel as a “ship” should mean it was intended to be both on the bigger side and warp capable. But the script specifically says “small” ship so not too big. I think upon reflection, you probably have the size just right.

On the other hand, calling the Pike ship a “star ship” means, at least in TOS, something that at least generally resembles Enterprise. It might be half the size, but it should probably at minimum have nacelles.

So maybe it is your ship after all in “Mudd’s Women” because you’ve nailed that screen image, but has nacelles added for the ship mentioned in “Menagerie”?

 

[BK613]

Yea, never equated Mudd's ship with a class-J starship. OTOH, your version 2 would make a nice primary hull for that class-J starship.

 

[Albertese]

You know, looking at the pictures again, and noticing the little gray silhouette man, I suspect this version of the J-class (from the top down anyhow) isn't much bigger than the Millennium Falcon really. Of course, it's taller, and has more rooms around the edge and a deeper bowl to haul cargo in, but I think Mudd could handle this on his own, after some rigging up more automation than usual perhaps. But hardly unfeasible.

--Alex

 

[BK613]

You know, looking at the pictures again, and noticing the little gray silhouette man, I suspect this version of the J-class (from the top down anyhow) isn't much bigger than the Millennium Falcon really. Of course, it's taller, and has more rooms around the edge and a deeper bowl to haul cargo in, but I think Mudd could handle this on his own, after some rigging up more automation than usual perhaps. But hardly unfeasible.

--Alex

Based on the values for the MF given on the Wikipedia page, the MF is 114 foot long whereas this ship is about 170 foot long (947) or 194 foot long (1080) So much bigger, assuming that 114 is correct.

Edit: Calculations based a 340 foot secondary hull and blssdwlf originally implying that the Mudd ship scaled to different sizes. He has corrected that implication and these calculations are moot. Mudd's ship as of this edit is 202' long.

 

[blssdwlf]

I wonder whether one person (Mudd) could operate such a largish ship, plus Mudd seemed lazy so I wouldn't expect him to be a bee hive of work to keep the ship running? 20-50 crew are on the Antares and the Beagle. A 200+ crew on the Enterprise during the Cage; 20 crew even with M5.

Spock and Scotty clearly expected more crew (and not the passengers they got instead) so I'd say if Leo Walsh was alive he would have hired on a minimum crew of maybe 4 or 5 In her Starfleet Cadet trim it would be a crew of maybe 60 cadets and 5 senior training officers and noncoms.

I think Mudd barely could operate the ship. He had enough skill or experience to put the basic systems on automatic and pilot the ship to Ophiuchus. But the moment he had to push the ship to escape it all fell apart on him.

On the other hand, calling the Pike ship a “star ship” means, at least in TOS, something that at least generally resembles Enterprise. It might be half the size, but it should probably at minimum have nacelles.

So maybe it is your ship after all in “Mudd’s Women” because you’ve nailed that screen image, but has nacelles added for the ship mentioned in “Menagerie”?

Thanks! Yeah, it's probable that the Starfleet version would've upgraded to have a warp drive for the cadets to practice on. I think the contemporary (during TOS) meaning of "starship" is used to describe something like the Enterprise, but the added description of "old Class J" could be interpreted to mean Class J's look like flying saucers with no nacelles, IMHO.

Yea, never equated Mudd's ship with a class-J starship. OTOH, your version 2 would make a nice primary hull for that class-J starship.

I already was thinking of a split design but not for the Class J...

You know, looking at the pictures again, and noticing the little gray silhouette man, I suspect this version of the J-class (from the top down anyhow) isn't much bigger than the Millennium Falcon really. Of course, it's taller, and has more rooms around the edge and a deeper bowl to haul cargo in, but I think Mudd could handle this on his own, after some rigging up more automation than usual perhaps. But hardly unfeasible.

It's actually a bit larger, coming in at 202' long. But you're right in that it's really just extra bulk to hall cargo and just being more roomy. The complexity could be reduced down enough through automation for a single pilot to risk flying around the galaxy.

Based on the values for the MF given on the Wikipedia page, the MF is 114 foot long whereas this ship is about 170 foot long (947) or 194 foot long (1080) So much bigger, assuming that 114 is correct.

I apologize - the labels I used sent the wrong message. I meant to have my Class J next to a 947' and 1080' Enterprise for reference. She's 202' long. I've updated the image in the previous post.

 

[BK613]

I apologize - the labels I used sent the wrong message. I meant to have my Class J next to a 947' and 1080' Enterprise for reference. She's 202' long. I've updated the image in the previous post.

That would roughly equate to the trimaran half of an Independence-class littoral combat ship. Just for real world comparison.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Ack, don’t restart the devastating 947 vs 1080 wars!

 

[blssdwlf]

Ack, don’t restart the devastating 947 vs 1080 wars!

Just kidding.

I included both sizes just for comparison. The only ships that would be tied to the Enterprise's scale would be the Botany Bay and the Klingon Battlecruiser (for me anyway)

 

[Mytran]

It's certainly been a while! I love how closely this design matches the blob on screen

 

[JR TREK]

I like the way the Mudd's ship is coming. It feels like it should have a crazy Chris Foss paint scheme, although that would break the mold for Star Trek.

 

[blssdwlf]

I like the way the Mudd's ship is coming. It feels like it should have a crazy Chris Foss paint scheme, although that would break the mold for Star Trek.

Thanks I think a civilian ship is free to paint their hull whatever they want so why not?

 

[blssdwlf]

I got around to doing a rough arrangement of what the Starfleet Cadet Starship version of the Class J would look like with upgraded warp nacelles. Just need to add some landing gear to both versions and textures and they'll both be complete

 

[JR TREK]

Thanks I think a civilian ship is free to paint their hull whatever they want so why not?

I like that the La Sirena has graphics on it, although that ship did not come together well IMO.

It could be that greeblies and weathering take up enough time as it is. I'm finding it to be a big PITA to put graphics on my ships. It's tough to get stripes and stuff to line up across multiple parts and flow well together.

 

[BK613]

Ack, don’t restart the devastating 947 vs 1080 wars!

Physician heal thyself first.

 

[Henoch]

At first seeing the top picture, now I know why Kirk et. al. thought the Romulan's copied Starfleet designs (unused plot point for Balance of Terror).

 

[blssdwlf]

I like that the La Sirena has graphics on it, although that ship did not come together well IMO.

It could be that greeblies and weathering take up enough time as it is. I'm finding it to be a big PITA to put graphics on my ships. It's tough to get stripes and stuff to line up across multiple parts and flow well together.

The La Sirena reminded me of Homeworld ship designs.

How are you putting graphics on your ships? Are you using something like Substance Paint or taking your UV map templates into something like Photoshop?

At first seeing the top picture, now I know why Kirk et. al. thought the Romulan's copied Starfleet designs (unused plot point for Balance of Terror).

Yeah, I was conscious of that too which is why I put the nacelles further back. I didn't want it too far back though as I wanted to have it still balanced near the middle when it is on the ground.

 

[JR TREK]

At first seeing the top picture, now I know why Kirk et. al. thought the Romulan's copied Starfleet designs (unused plot point for Balance of Terror).

Now that gives me an idea - I wonder what could possibly make the Romulans want to copy the Federation's saucer design, which would turn out to have no value in the long run?

The La Sirena reminded me of Homeworld ship designs.

How are you putting graphics on your ships? Are you using something like Substance Paint or taking your UV map templates into something like Photoshop?

IIRC Homeworld copied/paid homage to Chris Foss.

I'm exporting UV maps and doing the grahics in GIMP. I'll use Blender's texture paint to help locate things, but I'm not smooth enough with it to do more than that.

 

[blssdwlf]

Now that gives me an idea - I wonder what could possibly make the Romulans want to copy the Federation's saucer design, which would turn out to have no value in the long run?

IIRC, it was a story idea to tie in the Romulans looking like Vulcans and fuel the "spies among us" line from Styles. But since it was dropped, I think in-universe now it's just a coincidence that they have a saucer shape and nacelles on wings.

IIRC Homeworld copied/paid homage to Chris Foss.

It does look like Foss for the paint job and shapes in Homeworld.

Although now looking at the La Sirena there is a resemblance to the old FASA Renegade Legion space interceptors.

I'm exporting UV maps and doing the grahics in GIMP. I'll use Blender's texture paint to help locate things, but I'm not smooth enough with it to do more than that.

Yeah that's challenging! Have you considered creating the patterns as parts of the hull? One way is to duplicate the hull you want the pattern on, stencil or boolean cut the parts off you don't want painted and then place the remaining pieces on your hull and then lift them a few mm so they are slightly above it. Places that bend or go around corners you might need to push/pull some vertices. Color them in and you've got your color pattern. (It's a variation of plating your hull.)