Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

[hammerhead]

Star Trek isn't the most tactical universe. It's a lot of "Attack Pattern Omega"s and what not. The closest I can come up with for interesting tactics is Kirk's 3 dimentional thinking in the Mutara Nebula and Janeway's seeming knowledge of her own plot immunity.

Your comment of "Attack Pattern Omega" reminded me that in "Nemesis" Riker calls for the evasive pattern "Pattern Kirk Epsilon" so Kirk has at least one maneuver named after him but Riker has two because in "BOBW" he uses "Pattern Riker alpha" and "Pattern Riker beta".

Here's a list of all of them: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Evasive_maneuvers

 

[Scout101]

That doesn't mean there are "attack or evasive patterns" named after them. Not if they are calling them out themselves. All that indicates is that Riker spent time programing in some patterns so that he could use them at a later date.

The Kirk one, on the other hand, is more likely to be based upon his tactics and/or accomplishments.

Think of it this way: when calling out a holodeck program, they usually used a filename that had their name in it. Does that mean that they're recognized galaxy-wide for it, or that they saved it under their directory?

 

[EnsignRicky]

Sheridan....Then maybe Kirk.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

Captain Jean-Luc Picard.

The Picard Maneuver - nuff said

Exactly. We're told that the Picard Maneuver is taught at the academy. In the episode "The Battle" LaForge is in awe at actually being on the Stargazer.

It has been mentioned how Picard plays his cards close to his vest. I love in the episode "The Defector" when the Klingon ships decloak. Too Cool!

That doesn't mean there are "attack or evasive patterns" named after them. Not if they are calling them out themselves. All that indicates is that Riker spent time programing in some patterns so that he could use them at a later date.

I took it to be much like a coach would have specific types of plays for his team.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[Infern0]

In reality, it's so obviously Picard, I mean that was all he had really, plus he invented the Picard manouver

 

[CobraCommander]

On the other hand, Sisko also lost his ship. Picard as well (Stargazer, E-D doesn't count, he wasn't aboard). Janeway and Archer arrived at the end of the series with the original ships, and Kirk only lost his because he had a crew of 5 and lost the automation. Points off for Sisko and Picard there.

Anyway, don't think you can make much of a judgement here, and you don't ever see them all in similar situations, other than in ship-vs-ship battles, and in those cases, they all seemed to do just fine, and were all decent. Worst of that group is probably Picard, as they mostly just sat and absorbed a few shots, then fired once...

Sisko lost his ship due to battle against superior forces. Picard "lost" Stargazer by abandoning it in deep space. He failed to self destruct his ship, thereby leaving it equipped with photon torpedoes and its computer intact for anyone to find and use. Enterprise-D was destroyed as a result of an attack by an obsolete bird of prey (even though the ship was fully staffed and equipped with the best Federation weapons). At least when Kirk self-destructed the Enterprise, he took out the Klignon crew and prevented Federation secrets and technology from falling into the wrong hands.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I would go with Kirk because the TC didn't specify Starship combat alone. I'm looking at this in a bit more of a broad way.

To me it seemed that Kirk was presented with the widest range of bizarre and seemingly unwinnable situations by far. Many times he was forced to confront godlike beings and species with tech far beyond his own. All of the Captains did, but they all relied much more on their subordinates to supply them with options. Kirk occasionally did as well, but many times he simply tricked or out thought enemies that he would normally have had no chance to beat.

 

[Navaros]

The Sisko. Glad to see him winning this by a landslide. That is the Universe as it should be.

 

[Infern0]

Why is no-body picking janeway, I mean she handed the Borg thier ass on numerous occasions.

 

[number6]

Sorry for the driveby, but
Every time I see this thread I think it's a poll on who has the Best Testicles.

Just popping by to share. Don't mind me.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I always thought Scotty was just incredible whenever he was left in command. I mean that, check the episodes where he's in command...he was the original Sisko.

 

[ZERO_of_ZERO]

I would say Kirk.

All the rest had decades more of other peoples experience to build on.

Would there have been a "Picard manouver" if he hadnt had the knowledge gained from what Captain Pike, Kirk etc had done in the past?

 

[imajakov]

I disagree 100% with most of you.. Archer is probably the best tactician out of all of them

Sisko was not a good tactician The ONLY reason why Sisko helped with the war was becuase he asked the prophets for help. otherwise the Dominion would have MOST DEFINITELY taken over the Alpha Quadrant.

Sisko couldnt even trick the Romulans into the war without 99% of Garak's help!
Sisko, has his butt handed to him more than 3 times against the Founders cunning and brilliant tactics.


Back to Archer Lets think about this shall we

Archer was using not only the weakest ship out of all of the other captains( due to being 100 years before everyone else).. But in comparison to other ships out in space during that period he he was inferior to 75% of the time.

Enterprise NX-01 had no tractor beam, poor armor, weak phase cannons and No shields( except during the alternate timeline in "Twilight"):

And compared to the other ships during this time( Andorians,Vulcans, Most Klingon Battlecruises and the Orions) the NX-01 was substantially less powerful. Yet they survived. Not from brute force like the ENT D or Siskos Defiant, but from using his head. Combat tactics. Yes the NX-01 went thru a couple refits( Photonic torpedoes,and better armor by season 3 , but even this it was comparatively weak)

Archer faced multiple bad guys and he made it out ok.. Archer went into the expanse on his own and emerged both with his ship surviving and victorious

Archer+the crew defeated 24th century Borg in under 45 minutes!( Regeneration)

Despite a species with inferior tech,Archer and the NX-01 gained respect from Vulcans Andorians Tellerites and Klingons. Meanwhile Sisko can just blow stuff up with his Defiant( the most powerful ship in the Alpha Quadrant once it was introduced)

Janeway was alone in delta quadrant but Archer was almost almost all the time and survived.and Voyager was a powerful ship compared to most Delta Quadrant Species.

Kirks TOS Enterprise was powerful compared to most species. IT could blow a klingon battle cruiser away with 1 shot.. It outgunned Birds of Prey 10-1



The only reason why he wasnt part of this poll was becuase nobody liked the series.

Without a doubt.Archer reigns above all the rest and should have been on the list.

2nd to Janeway( only for being totally alone in Delta Quadrant)

Kirk is in 3rd Place

Picard is 4th ( that Picard Manuever was his first and last truly brilliant move)

Sisko is dead last IMO.

 

[R. Star]

Wow... four years is acceptable time length to make a new thread... though I too voted for Sisko before I realized it was that old.

 

[Melakon]

^ Well it is Halloween month after all, so ghost threads are to be expected occasionally.

 

[BigJake]

I voted Kirk, but it's something of a comparison of apples to oranges to kiwis to grapefruit to prunes.

We get to see Kirk at least twice in scenarios that are really well sold as quasi-realistic tactical situations; we aren't just told how great he is, we are actually shown it.

This is less true of Picard because while we're told that he's great, TNG had little in the way of convincing space battles, and during the major exception he was assimilated by the Borg. Picard was really more convincingly presented most of the time as the kind of leader who knew that winning without fighting, rather than fighting to win, was the acme of skill.

DS9 had plenty of battles but mostly presented Sisko's core skillsets as being in scheming and counter-scheming, intel and counter-intel work and sheer testicular fortitude. He was like Picard with a streak of pure ruthlessness underneath. A fine character but his greatness wasn't really in battle tactics as such.

VOY and ENT both make cases for their Captains to be great tactician, but in Janeway's case it's because the Borg have been thoroughly nerfed by the time she encounters them, the moreso yet when they turned oup on ENT. Victory-by-writers'-contrivance doesn't really count as great tactics.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

I'd say Janeway, and I'm not a Janeway fan by any means compared to some of the other Trek protagonists, but she did manage to make friends with the Borg to eliminate a species and then later made nice with that same species she plotted against.

 

[jpv2000]

As has been said Riker is overlooked.. he's easily one of the best officers Starfleet has and only recently got his own ship. He's very smart, quick wits and he rarely plays by the book and likes to improvise (to great success). That makes him a brilliant tactician and given a bit more time will easily fill the shoes of Picard and maybe make his own impression on Starfleet.

Agreed. I would have voted for Riker.

Out of the current list my vote went to Kirk, with Sisko as a close second.

 

[Cyke101]

^ Well it is Halloween month after all, so ghost threads are to be expected occasionally.

Well, if we're playing this game, while I might not think that Picard's that great of a tactician (his skill is diplomacy), I think OP's assessment of him is a bit unfair. His not rising up through the ranks wasn't because of his lack of killer instinct, but because he chose not to ascend, IIRC. He felt his place was on the bridge, and not admiralty.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

This is a tough one.

Picard, as a DIPLOMATIC tactician would win this hands down. But in actual combat, beside the Picard Maneuver, doesn't really stand out tactically. Even Riker seems to have him on the ropes in a 70 year old ship.

Kirk, likewise, is full of bravado and a great bluffer. His confidence is what wins his scenarios...not sheer tactical brilliance.

So for me, this is between Sisko, Janeway and Archer.

Archer used an inferior ship to defeat enemy vessels quite a few times and did it unsupported. His tactics in the Xindi conflict were crucial and a success. However, he does some times seem out of his depth. Im unsure whether to blame him or the inadequate ship.

Sisko fought the Dominion and was frequently shown to be cunning, though also quite reckless. His ship, and its unique design certainly seemed to favour him.

My vote, however, goes for Janeway. She has bravado too, like Kirk, but she fuses it with a guile that I admire. She has frequently tactically outwitted numerous captains/species and is an expert at turning a situation to her advantage [while usually hiding that fact from her foe]. She played the Borg when she needed to, placated 8472 and has multiple space combats where she had dreamt up something quite exceptional.