• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Batwoman - Season 1

Enterprise is Great said:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Click to expand...
Not to nitpick, but that last "I'm not about to let a man take credit for a woman's work" line kinda sums up why this character never sat right with me in the comics.
I mean...she's literally wearing his suit, using his name, building off his image and reputation. Kinda hard to go swinging around the "I'm my own person" attitude in that scenario without coming off a little conceited and insecure, no?

Of course it's entirely possible that line is being taken out of context in the trailer. I hope it is because I really want this show to be good.
 
Last edited:
Reverend said:
I mean...she's literally wearing his suit, using his name, building off his image and reputation. Kinda hard to go swinging around the "I'm my own person" attitude in that scenario without coming off a little conceited, no?
Click to expand...

Not at all. Everyone builds on the work of others -- our parents, our teachers, our forerunners in our fields. What makes our achievements our own is what we add to the foundations we build on. Shakespeare based all his plays on pre-existing stories, but changed them into something very new. Elvis Presley and others took the existing forms of gospel, country, and blues and built a new music genre from them. Stan Lee worked with well-established comic-book genres and tropes but found new ways to combine them into something greater. Heck, even Batman was a ripoff of the Shadow to begin with.

Besides, it seems clear from the trailer that she initially adopts the Batman costume out of convenience, and dislikes the fact that it burdens her with his image and reputation, so she transforms it in order to form her own reputation. It's not so much an imitation of Batman's image as a response to it, a deconstruction of it (almost literally). She's not trying to subordinate himself to his image like Batgirl did -- she's taking possession of his image and remaking it in her own.
 
Christopher said:
Not at all. Everyone builds on the work of others -- our parents, our teachers, our forerunners in our fields. What makes our achievements our own is what we add to the foundations we build on. Shakespeare based all his plays on pre-existing stories, but changed them into something very new. Elvis Presley and others took the existing forms of gospel, country, and blues and built a new music genre from them. Stan Lee worked with well-established comic-book genres and tropes but found new ways to combine them into something greater. Heck, even Batman was a ripoff of the Shadow to begin with.

Besides, it seems clear from the trailer that she initially adopts the Batman costume out of convenience, and dislikes the fact that it burdens her with his image and reputation, so she transforms it in order to form her own reputation. It's not so much an imitation of Batman's image as a response to it, a deconstruction of it (almost literally). She's not trying to subordinate himself to his image like Batgirl did -- she's taking possession of his image and remaking it in her own.
Click to expand...

This isn't someone taking inspiration and putting their own personal spin on it, or honouring a forebearer. It's literally adopting, if not co-opting an established brand (for lack of a better term) soup to nuts. You don't get to do that and them complain about people mistaking you for the person you're literally dressing up as. That would be like an Elvis impersonator getting salty about the real Elvis hogging the spotlight. It's nonsensical.

Again, it's not the concept of the character that bugs me, it's the execution. It makes her seem insecure and honestly, kinda petty.
 
Reverend said:
You don't get to do that and them complain about people mistaking you for the person you're literally dressing up as.
Click to expand...

Sometimes people try things that turn out to be mistakes, then they try something different. That's obviously the case here. The reworked Batman costume is her rough draft, she's unsatisfied with the result, so she revises that. It's unfair to shame someone for making a mistake that they obviously recognize as a mistake and choose to correct.
 
Christopher said:
Sometimes people try things that turn out to be mistakes, then they try something different. That's obviously the case here. The reworked Batman costume is her rough draft, she's unsatisfied with the result, so she revises that. It's unfair to shame someone for making a mistake that they obviously recognize as a mistake and choose to correct.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's not at all how it's presented in that trailer. Try again.
 
That's exactly how it's presented. The trailer shows her in Bruce's suit, then she says the 'I am my own person' stuff, and then it cuts to the shot in her own suit.

It's like someone taking over their parents' restaurant and keeping the name but getting a new sign out front, redecorating, and making changes to the menu.
 
CorporalClegg said:
That's exactly how it's presented. The trailer shows her in Bruce's suit, then she says the 'I am my own person' stuff, and then it cuts to the shot in her own suit.

It's like someone taking over their parents' restaurant and keeping the name but getting a new sign out front, redecorating, and making changes to the menu.
Click to expand...
In the trailer she says that she's not going to let a man take credit for her work. Thing is, who gives a shit about credit? I thought she's trying to help people... Supergirl had the same issue in season 1, when she told Superman that she needed space to become her own hero. WTF does that mean?
 
Yeah, I'm thinking that whole exchange about not letting a man take credit for a woman's work thing is after she goes out in his suit, and everyone thinks she's Batman. So after that she probably gets frustrated that she didn't get credit for whatever she did, and decides to change to a new suit or a more drastically altered Batman suit in order to make it clear she's not him.

I'm glad they're not going with the extremely pale look she has in the comics, that looks weird in the comics already, and would look ridiculous in live action.
DigificWriter said:
Yep.

Bruce's mother, Martha, is the sister of Jacob Kane, Kate's father.

Martha and Jacob have at least th other brothers, one of whom is the father of Mary Elizabeth "Bette" Kane, who becomes the "Robin" (as Flamebird/Firehawk) to Kate's Batwoman.

In the CW series, Bette's role has been taken by Kate's younger stepsister, Mary Hamilton.
Click to expand...
Isn't Alice also somehow related to her in the comics?
 
Christopher said:
Besides, it seems clear from the trailer that she initially adopts the Batman costume out of convenience, and dislikes the fact that it burdens her with his image and reputation, so she transforms it in order to form her own reputation.
Click to expand...

This.
And that's pretty much the best one can do to explain how she ends up bat-themed without the obvious "because Batman is a super popular character and people just love characters based on him"

JD said:
Isn't Alice also somehow related to her in the comics?
Click to expand...

She's her twin sister.
 
N-121973 said:
Isn't that a New 52/Rebirth thing? I don't remember her being his cousin post-Crisis.
Click to expand...
The Kate Kane Batwoman wasn't created until 2006.
DigificWriter said:
No.

The Silver Age Batwoman had no relation to Bruce, but she was erased from existence by Crisis on Infinite Earths.
Click to expand...
Sort of. Grant Morrison brought back Kathy Kane, who is married to Nathan Kane the brother of Martha and Jacob Kane. She's also an agent of Spyral and the Headmistress of St. Hadrian's Finishing School For Girls.
 
Also, not to get on too much of a side tangent with all this, it looks decent, definitely going to check it out when the time comes.

Reverend said:
Of course it's entirely possible that line is being taken out of context in the trailer.
Click to expand...
I think that might be the case. The line is kind of weird otherwise, would she be OK with taking credit for another woman? EDIT: or other way around as the case may be...
 
Reverend said:
I mean...she's literally wearing his suit, using his name, building off his image and reputation.
Click to expand...

Yeah... might have been better for her to have designed her own bat suit as she would be seen to be more credibly forming and owning her identity rather that appropriating someone else's. It would add to the heroic angle of stepping up after Batman disappears.
 
Well, it's not like she and that kid (Lucas?) had a lot of time and or resources to create a whole new suit.

Ain't broke, don't fix it. And all that.
 
I think we're burying the lead here. Looks we are getting Alice as one of the villains.

Without getting too spoilery, I wonder if Alice's background will be will be same in the TV series.
 
Don't know the Alice character from the comics but I was surprised she didn't look more "Wonderland" in the trailer.
 
JD said:
Yeah, I'm thinking that whole exchange about not letting a man take credit for a woman's work thing is after she goes out in his suit, and everyone thinks she's Batman. So after that she probably gets frustrated that she didn't get credit for whatever she did, and decides to change to a new suit or a more drastically altered Batman suit in order to make it clear she's not him.

I'm glad they're not going with the extremely pale look she has in the comics, that looks weird in the comics already, and would look ridiculous in live action.

Isn't Alice also somehow related to her in the comics?
Click to expand...
I know its a different universe but that was the whole point in the Dark Knight Trilogy, especially the Dark Knight Rises, that Batman was a symbol that could be worn by almost anyone. Heck that last seen showing Joseph Gordon Levitt in the Batcave implied that, even though physically he seemed shorter and slimmer than either Christian Bale or Ben Affleck, he could carry it off. As long as she keeps to the shadows, moves quickly and if required to speak disguised her voice, as Bale/Affleck & on Arrow Stephen Amell does, who'd be any the wiser?
 
I don't know if they have any connection to the comics, but it'd be cool if having Alice as the primary villain might mean we'll see the Mad Hatter. There are also Tweedledee & Tweedledum, who were the first Batman villains based on Lewis Carroll. I think Paul Dini wrote some Batman comics assembling a whole team of Wonderland-based villains.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top