Spoilers Avengers: Infinity War grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
The torso is a bigger, slower target than the arm.
Plus, while Stormbreaker can cut through just about anything, I wouldn’t bet everything on it vs. the gauntlet, which was forged at the same place as Stormbreaker. If the axe had ended up striking the gauntlet, it might have bounced off harmlessly.
So you’d have to aim for the area between the shoulder and the gauntlet. While the arm is pointed straight at you because he’s trying to zap you with an energy beam. The gauntlet is directly between you and your very small target. It’s an impossible shot.
Because Dr. Strange saw 4 million+ permutations (via the Time Stone) and only saw ONE outcome where the heroes ultimately win - and after saying that he even says to Stark "We're in the endgame now..." - so obviously he did not do that because in the timeline where he saw the Heroes win, he DIDN'T do that.
As a Trekkie, the example the immediately came to mind was Kodos the Executioner from "The Conscience of the King."
Meanwhile, I think Valentine's plan would have killed way more than just half the population.
Honestly, when I think about it, I think that Thor should die in the next Avengers movie, but then they should do a follow-up movie where Valkyrie & Lady Sif team up, bury Thor, and go on to have their own adventures (perhaps involving a reincarnated female Loki or something).
Turns out that this happening during the Snap was just a coincidence. He wasn't disintegrating because of Thanos. That was CLONE DEGENERATION! It turns out Ben Reilly is the ONE TRUE SPIDER-MAN!
While death is the only definitive end (except, ironically, in comic books), I would still prefer for Tony Stark to get some kind of happy ending. I don't want him to die. I want him to be emotionally healed. I'm not sure if that's possible, but it's what I would like to see.
I think we often forget that Tony Stark is a broken man. It's easy to overlook because he's an insufferable narcissist billionaire who genuinely is the smartest man in the room 99% of the time. But let's count the number of times that fate has kicked this guy in the nuts:
He failed to save Yensin, and what's more realized that Yensin planned on sacrificing himself from the beginning and hid that fact from Tony.
He learned that Obadiah Stane, his surrogate father figure, was selling weapons to terrorists in Stark's name. Then Obadiah paid the terrorists to kidnap and murder Tony. Then he went nuts and tried to murder Tony & Pepper.
He learned that his father screwed over Anton Vanko, leading to the creation of Whiplash.
He (apparently, at the time) failed to save Coulson. Not that he was right there when it happened, but still.
Happy Hogan nearly got killed in an explosion because, up to that point, Tony hadn't done anything to stop the Mandarin attacks.
He learned that his callous treatment of Aldrich Killian a decade ago led to Killian turning himself into a supervillain.
His ex-lover Maya Hansen was murdered right in front of him by Killian, with Killian explaining that he did it because he didn't need her anymore now that he held Tony captive.
His attempts at coming up with a permanent solution for global defense that would allow him to walk away from all this both kinda ended in disaster. First, he created Ultron, which led to the destruction of Sokovia. Then, he backed the Sokovia accords, which tore the Avengers apart and led to Rhodey getting paralyzed.
He also discovered that his parents, rather than dying in a random car accident, were actually murdered by the Winter Soldier.
As often as Iron Man has saved the day, his life is kind of a shambles, filled with failures & betrayals & people close to him getting hurt. And while he doesn't welcome death, I think he would gladly put himself first on the firing line if it meant saving everyone else. I don't want to see him die. I think that's too easy of an out for him. I think it's much more interesting seeing him grapple with being the one who survives all this even if he feels he's the one least worthy of it.
If they bring it down to a personal level of saving Peter, I could kinda get behind it. It still wouldn't be my first choice but I could live with it. Saving Peter or Pepper. That's my price for killing Iron Man.
Speaking of Tony, I think it's kind of ironic that, in Age of Ultron, he's the one advocating for the creation of Vision because they need a power weapon to use against Ultron. But in Infinity War, he's the first one to suggest destroying the Time Stone to prevent Thanos from getting his hands on it, whereas Doctor Strange insists that it's a valuable weapon that they should use against Thanos.
Thor is NOT the strongest Avenger! He's "Point Break."
"Now don’t give me a ‘killing Thanos won’t solve anything’ speech, because it will. Aren’t you tired of the sanctimonious purple tyrant always coming out on top when he should be six feet under?!"
Identify the movie that I'm paraphrasing and I'll telepathically send you a cookie!
He's The Collector meaning he wants EVERYTHING in his personal collection. It's what he does, it's all he does.
He's got everything! He even got the Infinity Gauntlet variant with the Gwen Stacy holofoil cover on it!
I'm often surprised at villains being really built up in the post-credits sequences and then not playing much of a role in the subsequent movie. I felt that way about the Collector in Guardians of the Galaxy and Baron VonStrucker in Age of Ultron.
BTW, I think they should do a One-Shot of the Collector & the Grandmaster at a family reunion or something. It would be a masterclass in unnecessary but awesome quirks! (Maybe their drunken uncle turns out to be Colin Quinn or something.)
I really loved that part of the movie. All in all, I really felt like Star Lord & Gamora were the only 2 heroes that really got a chance to fully shine in the movie as fully fleshed out characters. Thor, Rocket, & Groot all had their moments. Tony Stark & Doctor Strange are such strong personalities that they really pop out even with very limited screen time. Spider-Man didn't get an awful lot to do but his heartbreaking death scene and a few other moments really make up for it. Bruce Banner seemed like he was just planting the seeds for a subplot that won't really pay off until the next movie. Some characters didn't get much to do but are such supporting characters anyway that it fits with their treatment so far-- Drax, Mantis, Falcon, War Machine, the Winter Soldier. Black Panther was just kinda there but I'm not his biggest fan, so I didn't really mind. Scarlet Witch & Vision got a lot of screen time but I still felt like I didn't know them well enough for their subplot to really click for me. The problem is, while they've been in 2 previous movies, they were movies so jam packed with other stuff that I didn't really feel like I knew them there either. Probably my biggest disappointment though was Captain America & Black Widow. I love those characters, especially Natasha, and I'm not used to them showing up with so little to do.
Overall, while I really like the movie, I can't help but think I'd have liked it more if it had just been a Thor & the Guardians of the Galaxy team-up. But then, Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy are my 2 favorite solo lines in this series, so I guess that's not surprising.
You must have been in the parking lot eating M&M instead of actually watching the film, since your description of Thor and his actions are not in line with what happens in the film. That, or you are not doing a poor job defending a forced, ridiculous behavioral shift for Thor, where he hits the brake of all sense of purpose at the last second all for the sake of setting up another Avengers movie.
I posted a piece of dialogue from the movie. Is the script from the wrong movie too?
You playing the "I hate all Marvel movies for reasons" bit is rather tedious. Your excuses just get lazier and lazier. I find your devotion to this bit rather sad. Do you think anyone is buying it anymore? Because they aren't.
Thanos won. Same in the comics this is inspired by. You analysis is worthless since it's just 'They didn't do it the way I like!'
No, she really isn't, in fact she's pretty much bang on the nail for how Thor was portrayed not only here but in every iteration we've ever seen since his inception.
You, on the other hand, seem determinedly offended that a well established character flaw which has defined many of his misadventures down the years is suddenly somehow being used as a way of emasculating him to set up Captain Marvel.
Wonder why?
Yep. It's right up there with the Peter punch and Hulk hiding out for the rest of the movie. We all get that Thanos was going to win the day but it still required some serious failings from these seasoned superheroes.
That you don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt for Hulk's storyline (which is clearly going somewhere, and would seem to be a continuation of their openly stated intention to give the character an ongoing arc across several movies since he can't have his own), fair enough, but you cannot seriously fault the movie for Peter Quill acting like an idiot. Peter Quill is an idiot. That's literally the entire basis of his character. A lovable idiot with skills and heart whose idea of a plan is 'Dance off, bro!'.
Exactly, all these complaints seem to boil down to not wanting the characters to actually reflect who they are and how they have always been written. None of them are perfect, their storylines have always reflected their weaknesses, flaws and foibles as much as their strengths. They aren't walking statlines that behave rationally and Thor has always been defined by exactly the behaviour seen here, even when we go back to Norse mythology he is literally about foolish pride.
Factor in the fact he literally told Thanos this was his intention and the encounter played out exactly as every comic book encounter between the two had before, with Thor failing to understand he was outmatched and what danger Thanos posed.
There has been no "behavioural shift" at all, not from the film, the MCU, the source comics or the mythology they were in turn derived from. This is exactly how anyone who knows the characters would expect the sequence of events to happen. There is literally no precedent for it working out any other way
The Hulk story line doesn't even fit the promos. Makes one seriously question what the hell was going on there.
As for Peter? He was just one of at least three superheroes who stuffed up. I rather like him though.
I assume they shot that promo to subvert expectations - part of their battle against spoilers. Same reason the trailers act like Thanos' 'know what its like to lose' speech is some big grandstanding moment where he's telling the heroes all about how he'll destroy them, when in the actual movie Thanos is talking about himself, and actually almost sympathizing with the heroes and their inability to stop him.
Or maybe we'll still see that moment in Avengers 4, but in a different battle. Who knows.
And I like Peter, too. Just saying, the fact that he stuffed up is not in any way artificial or a flaw in the movie. Thanos killed Gamora. If Peter had actually maintained any semblence of control over himself in that moment, it would've been laughably unbelievable based on everything we've seen of him before. That is what would've been artificial.
Agreed, if the MCU has been successful for any one definable reason where other franchises have failed it has been down to the characters being accessible, relatable and believable. We have laughed and cried with them, come to feel we know them and what to expect of them. We've loved with them, lost with them, at times been infuriated with them, but they've been there throughout time and again being (mostly) human beings who screw up but come back and try again, who muddle through against odds which often as not are of their own making.
Why would that suddenly change now in favour of cold, logical, emotionless tactical machines?
Do you refer to Captain Marvelous here or Thanos??
More the various Avengers who have made errors entirely in fitting with their characters and circumstances. Why would we expect them to suddenly stop acting as they have always done?
Why exactly do you feel such a driving need to tear down and insult the mcu version of Captain Marvel at every opportunity when we literally haven't even seen a single second of footage of her?
Um.. you do realise that characters.. grow and change? The Thor of his first viewing is not the same as the one in Infinity War? That is the purpose of an arc.
Do you realize that people also often stay the same, that lasting change rarely comes fast, easily or without momentary regression, that Thor is literally 1500 years old and has only even been trying to better himself for the past 8-10 years, and that he actually has made progress but has also very clearly been shown to still struggle with the same underlying character flaws?