But by the end of Galaxy's Child, there's no clear evidence that Geordi has actually learnt from his mistakes.
Anyone else disturbed by La Forges sexual harrasment of Leah Brahms?
- Thread starter Crazyewok
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But by the end of Galaxy's Child, there's no clear evidence that Geordi has actually learnt from his mistakes.
I just don't think that's what was portrayed here -- the ending of the episode endorses Geordi's point of view, that it was Leah who was primarily in the wrong, and she's the one doing the apologizing to him. He doesn't really admit any mistakes or learn any lessons -- if he did, I think that would fix what rubs me the wrong way about "Galaxy's Child."
In general I don't need my fictional characters to be likeable, but in certain shows I do, and TNG is one of them, because TNG is explicitly presenting a cast of characters that are held up as morally admirable people who ultimately do the right thing. Even within Trek, I would not critique episodes of DS9 in the same way, because their characters lived in the grey and made morally questionable choices all the time. The DS9 crew wasn't always right, they made mistakes, and they were often in situations where there wasn't even a right answer, just different varieties of wrong. TNG is doing something different -- their characters struggle, but consistently find their way to their best selves. TNG posits that there is a morally righteous path, and these characters are going to point us to what it is. That's why it bothers me when the show glosses over behavior as questionable as Geordi's in this episode.
It's funny, rewatching the various series today, almost every misstep that bothers me takes me back to the same thought of "and that's why you need more women in the writer's room."
Leah attempts to apologize, but Geordi rejects it and admits the fault was his, then explains that he values the real Leah as she is. It sounds to me like he admits a mistake and learns a lesson.
No argument there.
It's a perfect storm of fail. There's no "sexual harassment" though. Just a cringe-carnival of cosmic clumsiness, galactic goofballery and space faring slapstick -- mostly from LaForge.
I'd also say the computer has played a mischievous role. The easy to-get-to-know, convivial Holobrahms is incredibly out of kilter with the forbidding figure that appeared on the transporter pad to hurl verbal abuse at Geordi right off the bat. The 'puter royally screwed that one up.
To realbrahms, holobrahms must come across as something that LaForge simply fixed. Because holobrahms is nothing like her. So she's right to be irate with this semi-sultry figure that features her face in the context of LaForge elaborately trying to smooch her for hitherto mysterious reasons.
I don't know if I entirely subscribe to the idea that Holobrahms hadn't been activated since Booby Trap. He's infatuated with it and its an ideal diagnostic tool to work out some fundamental problems, so he's got the perfect excuse for him to go back there.
The fact that he's so clueless and defenseless towards Brahms suggests he went back there multiple times and is "lost" in the holodeck. Even the basic idea that Brahms probably has a partner doesn't even enter his brain. Incredible really. .
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I'd also say the computer has played a mischievous role. The easy to-get-to-know, convivial Holobrahms is incredibly out of kilter with the forbidding figure that appeared on the transporter pad to hurl verbal abuse at Geordi right off the bat. The 'puter royally screwed that one up.
To realbrahms, holobrahms must come across as something that LaForge simply fixed. Because holobrahms is nothing like her. So she's right to be irate with this semi-sultry figure that features her face in the context of LaForge elaborately trying to smooch her for hitherto mysterious reasons.
I don't know if I entirely subscribe to the idea that Holobrahms hadn't been activated since Booby Trap. He's infatuated with it and its an ideal diagnostic tool to work out some fundamental problems, so he's got the perfect excuse for him to go back there.
The fact that he's so clueless and defenseless towards Brahms suggests he went back there multiple times and is "lost" in the holodeck. Even the basic idea that Brahms probably has a partner doesn't even enter his brain. Incredible really. .
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I thought DS9 later told us that making holographic representations of real people without their consent is illegal, as it was stated to Quark when he was trying to make a holo-Kira lovebot for his "associate"...?
If so, and I can understand SF archives and records having a visual record of key staff, that's fine for the holodeck to show you what someone looks like, but to make an interactive hologram of a living person without consent, and to allow or to specifically program that representation to behave a certain way, or to be influenced by certain suggestions, that crosses a line of common decency.
Star Trek takes place in a world of big brother watching everything and everything being open and freely shared for the most part, it would be foolish to think that just having the visual representation of Leah Brahms was out of line; but making it interactive based on known personality traits, and then playing off of those in a personal matter as if she were real is a fault of Geordi's, and one I think we see many people susceptible to in the 24th century.
Nonetheless, yelling at real-Brahms was way out of line. Was he creepy, weird and awkward about the whole thing? Absolutely. Not illegal .. but not cool either. I know if it were me, and i heard a holographic representation of a real person saying that line about touching me when you touch the engines, I'd just ask the computer to delete that crap and alter the behavior algorithm to not do that. ESPECIALLY if I heard later on that the real person was coming on-board.
Clearly Geordi has never heard of the 24th century equivalent of clearing your browser history.
If so, and I can understand SF archives and records having a visual record of key staff, that's fine for the holodeck to show you what someone looks like, but to make an interactive hologram of a living person without consent, and to allow or to specifically program that representation to behave a certain way, or to be influenced by certain suggestions, that crosses a line of common decency.
Star Trek takes place in a world of big brother watching everything and everything being open and freely shared for the most part, it would be foolish to think that just having the visual representation of Leah Brahms was out of line; but making it interactive based on known personality traits, and then playing off of those in a personal matter as if she were real is a fault of Geordi's, and one I think we see many people susceptible to in the 24th century.
Nonetheless, yelling at real-Brahms was way out of line. Was he creepy, weird and awkward about the whole thing? Absolutely. Not illegal .. but not cool either. I know if it were me, and i heard a holographic representation of a real person saying that line about touching me when you touch the engines, I'd just ask the computer to delete that crap and alter the behavior algorithm to not do that. ESPECIALLY if I heard later on that the real person was coming on-board.
Clearly Geordi has never heard of the 24th century equivalent of clearing your browser history.
Given that the computer had no problem in furnishing Brahms for brain storming purposes, I doubt there's a legal problem frankly.
In Hollow Pursuits, it's described as being against protocol suggesting it isn't a legal matter. Our heroes seem to be both askance and unfamiliar with the problem in a general sense.
I can understand LaForge mounting a return volley in the confrontation scene, although it's Brahms that has been wronged. It's true though that LaForge didn't deliberately design holobrahms as his "plaything" as realbrahms understandably but wrongly alleged. So he just caved and let loose on her given her general rudeness -- a rudeness that was in evident before LaForge started with his own puppy dog antics.
In Hollow Pursuits, it's described as being against protocol suggesting it isn't a legal matter. Our heroes seem to be both askance and unfamiliar with the problem in a general sense.
I can understand LaForge mounting a return volley in the confrontation scene, although it's Brahms that has been wronged. It's true though that LaForge didn't deliberately design holobrahms as his "plaything" as realbrahms understandably but wrongly alleged. So he just caved and let loose on her given her general rudeness -- a rudeness that was in evident before LaForge started with his own puppy dog antics.
Honestly, we don't know the circumstances, and many years had passed. It could very well be that Leah's marriage fell apart without Geordi's interference, and then they reconnected. It could be that her marriage was for a set period of time, like was mentioned about one of Kirk's marriages in one of the novels, or like handfasting and similar things in some cultures here on Earth in the present - and they just decided not to continue it. (And if Geordi was a factor in that in Brahms' mind, that's not his fault, I don't think.) It could EVEN be (given that this is Star Trek) that he wasn't even referring to the original Leah Brahms *at all*, but to the holodeck version of her brought into "the real world" by some mechanism of technology brought back by Voyager, or by whatever the heck that was that left the ship in "Emergence", or however else. There were implications to the mention of that name, but not enough to solidly say that Geordi was a scoundrel in any way.
Not generally, no, but I think you could be forgiven if they were inappropriate enough to angrily demand to know if they're in your spank bank, without knowing you nearly well enough to talk to you about such things. Which is sort of what the 20th-21st century analog is to this situation, if there is one.
Indeed - responsible people looking to make things better, as opposed to people looking for reasons to be offended. Hopefully there will be a lot more of the former in the 24th century than there are now.
And Leah was also right to try to apologize, in her own new context. Because when she thought that Geordi had generated the hologram for impure reasons, her accusations were just, but, once she realized that he really hadn't meant any harm, she also realized that she had been accusing him of some pretty nasty things. She wasn't to blame for any of what had happened with the hologram - I'm not victim blaming - but she took responsibility for what she then realized was a disproportional response to what had been done.
Agreed, but, it would have been inconsistent with Leah as she was presented on the holodeck, who definitely flirted with a male. But, she could have said she had a wife and been bi.
You yourself just said "Because when she thought that Geordi had generated the hologram for impure reasons, her accusations were just", so I don't think her questioning Geordi's motives were inappropriate. Besides, my original quote was referring to when Leah asked innocent questions about Geordi's modifications that came as a result of his genuine engineering work in the holodeck, and he still denied it and/or took credit that he should have shared with (Holo)Brahms.
Flirty behaviour is flirty behaviour, regardless of gender. Her incorrect sexuality could have been part of the 9.3% (or however much) margin of error.
You're joking right?
Appointment with Troi, the one that lets the creepy guy she just met tell her how to act.
Barf. SHE needed to be counseled!
She acted like a stupid insipid cow in the episode. I would prefer counseling from a dinner plate than from her.
After her actions with the Creepy Guy, she would have no room to hold herself out as superior.
But it was like 1989.
Roddenberry always said he wanted homosexuality represented in TNG, it was Paramount who vetoed it.
Plus, TOS had a Russian pilot and Black comms officer on the bridge during the Cold war and civil rights movement. Really wish I was old enough to have fully appreciated how much that would have meant back in the 60s.
M
marlboro
Guest
Leah: I'm gay.
Geordie: Really? Your personnel file didn't say anything about that.
Leah: Well, my personnel file hasn't been updated since I met you.
I feel like we're developing a persuasive argument that the computer may also have been guilty of sexual harassment towards Geordi! Creating this female avatar without being asked, using the cover of a real woman's personality to put the moves on him in the midst of a high pressure crisis... I'm ready to send the computer to Troi's office for a talking to as well.
Re: reference to Leah in "All Good Things..." Though I'm sure the intent was that he's referring to Leah Brahms, you could also headcannon that it's another woman who just happened to have the same name. It happens... in probably the most bizarre coincidence of my life, I once dated THREE guys CONSECUTIVELY who had the same first name. I met the third one in a bar and we hit it off immediately, but when he told me his name I had such a moment of "oh god, does this mean I need to just get up and leave now?!?"
Re: reference to Leah in "All Good Things..." Though I'm sure the intent was that he's referring to Leah Brahms, you could also headcannon that it's another woman who just happened to have the same name. It happens... in probably the most bizarre coincidence of my life, I once dated THREE guys CONSECUTIVELY who had the same first name. I met the third one in a bar and we hit it off immediately, but when he told me his name I had such a moment of "oh god, does this mean I need to just get up and leave now?!?"
One of the novels had Brahms husband killed. One of the TNG....Genesis novels. Aside from that, given the death toll in the Dominion Wars you could easily knock off any spouse to make room for a partner for one of our heroes. 
I can't say I ever had a serious problem with Geordi's behavior in this episode. I'd have to rewatch it to see if that opinion has changed over the years, but to my recollection he basically just developed a crush on the woman he imagined Leah Brahms was. Unfortunately for him, the real Leah didn't exactly match what he thought she would be. Happens all the time in real life. Happened to me quite often.
As for Leah, she was angry, because she thought Geordi had essentially created a submissive impersonation of her on the holodeck. But of course that's not what really happened. Geordi cleared the situation up and both were able to laugh about it.
I'm really trying not to be insensitive about the subject, as I do take sexual harrassment seriously. I'm just not convinced that that's what we are seeing in this episode. But of course I'm open to be convinced of other's arguments.
As for Leah, she was angry, because she thought Geordi had essentially created a submissive impersonation of her on the holodeck. But of course that's not what really happened. Geordi cleared the situation up and both were able to laugh about it.
I'm really trying not to be insensitive about the subject, as I do take sexual harrassment seriously. I'm just not convinced that that's what we are seeing in this episode. But of course I'm open to be convinced of other's arguments.
How was anything he did sexist? Not trying to have an argument here, I'm honestly curious.
My point wasn't that what he did was sexist. I said that his whole creepy "can't really talk to women" act that involved the dodgy stuff with Leah Brahms and the way he treated her when he met the real Leah Brahms reminded me of "nice guy" nerds.
And those were and are an incredibly toxic element in nerd communities.
I haven't seen those episodes in years so I don't really remember many details about then. I can just tell you what they made me feel like.
I hope you're not implying that the sexuality of her holodeck copy would be determined more-or-less randomly based on a dice roll against the percentage of the population that is gay. Because while that would make for some pretty amusing holodeck shenanigans, I'm pretty sure that working from that profile Starfleet took of her, it can do better than LGBTQIA random-select.
Riker claims that it is against protocol, La Forge denies that claim and then Riker as much as admits that La Forge is correct.
It's never said to be illegal to use someone's likeness on the holodeck/suite. Kira threatens Quark with physical violence if he again attempts to take a holo-image of her, but there's nothing said about whether it is legal or not. Quark later makes an illegal access to station personnel files in his quest to make a holo-Kira, but that's a different matter.
The computer based simul-Brahms on her logs. Assuming she never wrote a log while in a bad mood, why would the computer think she was anything but friendly? Leah has never met Geordi before, and she came into the situation mad about the situation. She's quite friendly once she gets to know him and they sort out their little misunderstanding.