1701C makeover

[Saquist]

I think most might agree that Enterprise C got the short end of the design stick compared to her big-screen siblings A, B, D, & E... just a quickly-built TV model that wasn't able to capture much of Probert's original concept. I figured this 'forgotten' Enterprise could use a bit more elegance, so I started thinking...

What if the C's next-gen nacelles seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise" were a relatively recent upgrade to the Ambassador class? If so, here's an idea of what the C might have looked like with its original nacelles:

Larger image: http://bloss1.home.comcast.net/concept1701c.jpg

It's basically Mike Swantak's 1701C illustration from ex-astris-scientia.org, with a 1701B nacelle (from the same site) scaled up and grafted on with a tiny bit of strut flaring. Overall length is comparable to 1701D, and nacelle length is similar to 1701E. I left off the B nacelles' upper fins since I don't think they work well with the circular lines of the 1701C (or the 2000).

Let me know what you think...

I really think the Nacelles should be higher above the saucer on this with design. This looks awkward with such a thin nacelle this low

 

[publiusr]

I think Jackill did some Ambassador class variations. He has some really nice blueprints out there:

Council class was Jeff Robbs idea, of how the Ambassador class was going to look. I would have those refit into Probert's original design at the time Galaxy herself was launched, with Galaxy refit into the all good things enterprise after Ent-E was built.
http://www.jackill.com/Pages/CE-5_Sample_Page.htm

Here is a nice extended nacelle
http://www.jackill.com/Pages/CE-4_Sample_Page.htm

Now what I might do is to lower the saucer, and raise the nacelle supports and use these longer nacelles. Place photon torpedos in a recess in the front underside of the saucer, and have the nice Excelsior impulse deck as seen in the physical model above.

 

[Bryan B)]

Fascinatingly...the Philadelphia on the 'test bed ships' thread tries out many of these ideas...could even be the same 'class' as Erifah's cool model...

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=118231
http://subodeon.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ships&action=display&thread=2019

For the 'as commissioned' design, I wanted a sleeker 1701C which could plausibly become the ship we see in "Yesterday's Enterprise", keeping with the idea of the C as a transition step between the B & D.

And I enjoyed Robb's backstory about the 'competing' Council class (not unlike the Sumeria)... I was looking to reconcile that with Probert's NX-10521, which I'd expect came before the other Ambassadors.

Kinda fun rewriting history, isn't it?

 

[Tiberius]

I think most might agree that Enterprise C got the short end of the design stick compared to her big-screen siblings A, B, D, & E... just a quickly-built TV model that wasn't able to capture much of Probert's original concept. I figured this 'forgotten' Enterprise could use a bit more elegance, so I started thinking...

What if the C's next-gen nacelles seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise" were a relatively recent upgrade to the Ambassador class? If so, here's an idea of what the C might have looked like with its original nacelles:

Larger image: http://bloss1.home.comcast.net/concept1701c.jpg

It's basically Mike Swantak's 1701C illustration from ex-astris-scientia.org, with a 1701B nacelle (from the same site) scaled up and grafted on with a tiny bit of strut flaring. Overall length is comparable to 1701D, and nacelle length is similar to 1701E. I left off the B nacelles' upper fins since I don't think they work well with the circular lines of the 1701C (or the 2000).

Let me know what you think...

The sleekness of the nacelles doesn't match with the rest of the chubby design....

 

[BK613]

I would have to see the OP's idea in 3D before rendering final judgment but the idea has great promise. Even a less-stubby version of it's own nacelles would help.

 

[Saquist]

I think most might agree that Enterprise C got the short end of the design stick compared to her big-screen siblings A, B, D, & E... just a quickly-built TV model that wasn't able to capture much of Probert's original concept. I figured this 'forgotten' Enterprise could use a bit more elegance, so I started thinking...

What if the C's next-gen nacelles seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise" were a relatively recent upgrade to the Ambassador class? If so, here's an idea of what the C might have looked like with its original nacelles:

Larger image: http://bloss1.home.comcast.net/concept1701c.jpg

It's basically Mike Swantak's 1701C illustration from ex-astris-scientia.org, with a 1701B nacelle (from the same site) scaled up and grafted on with a tiny bit of strut flaring. Overall length is comparable to 1701D, and nacelle length is similar to 1701E. I left off the B nacelles' upper fins since I don't think they work well with the circular lines of the 1701C (or the 2000).

Let me know what you think...

The sleekness of the nacelles doesn't match with the rest of the chubby design....

This is why kitbashing gets no love.
Many things artistically designed can't just be cut and pasted on other designs.

The beauty of the TMP is that they had similar basics they were already modular and did a pretty good job on other designs.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Yeah, the way I see it, if you have to kitbash either

A) Do a "stylistic" kitbash. Not a true blending of components from other ships, but a bridging of the styles of 2 ships. Refer to my Sumeria-class.

B) Think "What would Sternbach/Probert/Eaves/etc. do?" The Nebula-class is a great example of kitbash (until it got fudged up in the transition to CG, anyways) because it feels like a relative of the Galaxy, but has an apparent function of its own other than being an arbitrary collection of parts.

 

[erifah]

B) Think "What would Sternbach/Probert/Eaves/etc. do?" The Nebula-class is a great example of kitbash (until it got fudged up in the transition to CG, anyways) because it feels like a relative of the Galaxy, but has an apparent function of its own other than being an arbitrary collection of parts.

Which pic are you referencing? I guess all I have seen is that CG model, and although I wouldn't come right out and say it's a DOG, it IS a bit of a "bow-wow."

 

[Michael]

1701C makeover

Makeover? You merely copy/pasted part of an image onto another. Please tell me this is not what goes for art around here these days.

 

[Bryan B)]

To paraphrase the old repairman's joke... $1 for the nacelle, $49 for figuring out where to paste it... (plus some detail painting to make it look like a simple paste; also, the color matching was better in the larger version.)

I'm an engineer, so I'm probably thinking "what would Scotty do?" This was just a proposed alternate look for the Enterprise C which could fit within the canon for that ship, along with a bit of backstory to explain why it ended up different from the USS Ambassador design. Thought that might make an interesting discussion...sorry if this was the wrong forum.

As for art, though I like many of the more fluid designs, I find something elegant (or retro?) about the C's perfect-circle hull and saucer. The C also still includes Probert's references to the Excelsior/B design, such as the neck ribs and right-angle struts, since it was meant to be a design bridge from the B to D. So I think the B nacelle works, but the Sumeria nacelle might be another step in the right direction.

B)

 

[Saquist]

Yeah, the way I see it, if you have to kitbash either

A) Do a "stylistic" kitbash. Not a true blending of components from other ships, but a bridging of the styles of 2 ships. Refer to my Sumeria-class.

B) Think "What would Sternbach/Probert/Eaves/etc. do?" The Nebula-class is a great example of kitbash (until it got fudged up in the transition to CG, anyways) because it feels like a relative of the Galaxy, but has an apparent function of its own other than being an arbitrary collection of parts.

I'm not much for Eaves Earth ships but ...yeah you're right about the CGI woofer.

To paraphrase the old repairman's joke... $1 for the nacelle, $49 for figuring out where to paste it... (plus some detail painting to make it look like a simple paste; also, the color matching was better in the larger version.)

I'm an engineer, so I'm probably thinking "what would Scotty do?" This was just a proposed alternate look for the Enterprise C which could fit within the canon for that ship, along with a bit of backstory to explain why it ended up different from the USS Ambassador design. Thought that might make an interesting discussion...sorry if this was the wrong forum.

As for art, though I like many of the more fluid designs, I find something elegant (or retro?) about the C's perfect-circle hull and saucer. The C also still includes Probert's references to the Excelsior/B design, such as the neck ribs and right-angle struts, since it was meant to be a design bridge from the B to D. So I think the B nacelle works, but the Sumeria nacelle might be another step in the right direction.

B)

Well if you think it works then do the other orthographic views in the same scale and see if it looks balanced.

 

[AstroSmurf]

I have been following this thread and I must say I completely agree that the 1701-C was given the short end of the stick. (But it is understandable in the rush rush rush nature of television.) I love the saucer and the secondary hull has a nice shape. The thing that throws off the entire design are the nacelles and a few of the details. It just doesn't blend well with the style of the ship. Forgive me for being blunt but those nacelles are very clunky and look a more than a little phallic. I also loath the deflector dish. It needs a redesign as well.

As for the Excelsior nacelle on the ship, I don't really like it. I mean I like the design but it is just to small for the robust (or hulky) nature of the vessel. But I started thinking about what would the original nacelle look like with elements from the Excelsior nacelle. I did some tinkering at lunch today and came up with this...

It is a fast and dirty Photoshop chop job I did while I was eating my lunch. Hopefully you will get the idea. I extended the length, reduced the height and reworked some of the elements. The nacelle cap now has elements of the Enterprise B and D sort of pushed together. It is still a work in progress so I may change a few things. I also want to do a shot of it from above. I think from that angle I would reduce the width and taper the aft end off to match the lines of the secondary hull. Even if you don't like my details you can't deny she looks much more balanced and sleek than before. (I don't know how you would kit bash it though.)

 

[Saquist]

I almost like like it....
...it intrigues me.

 

[Kaiser]

I have been following this thread and I must say I completely agree that the 1701-C was given the short end of the stick. (But it is understandable in the rush rush rush nature of television.) I love the saucer and the secondary hull has a nice shape. The thing that throws off the entire design are the nacelles and a few of the details. It just doesn't blend well with the style of the ship. Forgive me for being blunt but those nacelles are very clunky and look a more than a little phallic. I also loath the deflector dish. It needs a redesign as well.

As for the Excelsior nacelle on the ship, I don't really like it. I mean I like the design but it is just to small for the robust (or hulky) nature of the vessel. But I started thinking about what would the original nacelle look like with elements from the Excelsior nacelle. I did some tinkering at lunch today and came up with this...

It is a fast and dirty Photoshop chop job I did while I was eating my lunch. Hopefully you will get the idea. I extended the length, reduced the height and reworked some of the elements. The nacelle cap now has elements of the Enterprise B and D sort of pushed together. It is still a work in progress so I may change a few things. I also want to do a shot of it from above. I think from that angle I would reduce the width and taper the aft end off to match the lines of the secondary hull. Even if you don't like my details you can't deny she looks much more balanced and sleek than before. (I don't know how you would kit bash it though.)

This looks cool

 

[lennier1]

The bussard area looks way too busy but I like the idea of stretching the nacelle somewhat and giving it a slanted end similar to the Refit.
Maybe elongate the saucer's superstructure a bit to get something between the Galaxy and the Excelsior (would fit in with the longer drop shape of the secondary hull) and add the more detailed sensor dome from the Refit/Excelsior/Yamaguchi?

 

[Saquist]

nah leave the saucer as is. It's supposed to harkin back to the excelsior not Galaxy.
But yeah the bussard is too busy

 

[SeerSGB]

I have been following this thread and I must say I completely agree that the 1701-C was given the short end of the stick. (But it is understandable in the rush rush rush nature of television.) I love the saucer and the secondary hull has a nice shape. The thing that throws off the entire design are the nacelles and a few of the details. It just doesn't blend well with the style of the ship. Forgive me for being blunt but those nacelles are very clunky and look a more than a little phallic. I also loath the deflector dish. It needs a redesign as well.

As for the Excelsior nacelle on the ship, I don't really like it. I mean I like the design but it is just to small for the robust (or hulky) nature of the vessel. But I started thinking about what would the original nacelle look like with elements from the Excelsior nacelle. I did some tinkering at lunch today and came up with this...

It is a fast and dirty Photoshop chop job I did while I was eating my lunch. Hopefully you will get the idea. I extended the length, reduced the height and reworked some of the elements. The nacelle cap now has elements of the Enterprise B and D sort of pushed together. It is still a work in progress so I may change a few things. I also want to do a shot of it from above. I think from that angle I would reduce the width and taper the aft end off to match the lines of the secondary hull. Even if you don't like my details you can't deny she looks much more balanced and sleek than before. (I don't know how you would kit bash it though.)

The the Mk. II Excelsior nacelle was an improvement, your's looking amazing. Awesome job.

 

[Saquist]

I say get red of the red and keep the yellow and turn the red white....

 

[Bryan B)]

Once more unto the thread...

I thought the Philadelphia CGI model was starting to go in the right direction- it will look less blocky with the hull details filled in. Likewise, it's all the innovative details that make AstroSmurf's nacelle design look fantastic...and more advanced...

Taking a step backward though, here's one more shot at a 'prequel' version of Enterprise C with older nacelles. I've tried a few different placements & sizes, and this just looked the 'fastest' (and it's not that different from TOS).

The first pic is based on the Drexfiles' Yamaguchi photo on pg.1, and the 2nd is now an overhead & side view:

​

 

[Kaiser]

Very lovely looking ship art there