My TAS shuttlecraft...

[Warped9]

Okay, I'm jumping the gun a bit here, but then I did the same in my original My TOS shuttlecraft thread as well. But the previous project has light at the end of the tunnel and it's no secret to anyone following that project that I've already been thinking about the TAS shuttlecraft.

I'll be applying a similar approach to these three designs as I did previously: to take what is shown onscreen and render it into an integrated "real" vehicle. Or in this case vehicles.


TAS itself has already given us clue right from the beginning:

Although the Enterprise is immediately recognizable in TAS you can quickly see that it isn't a photographic like representation. Some of the proportions and detailing are inconsistent with what we see on live-action TOS. What that means to me is that what we see in TAS is a simplified, stylized and perhaps even exaggerated version of the "real" thing. In other words you can't take what TAS is showing us literally if you're going to apply it to the "reality" of TOS.

The next step is to interpret what we're seeing and try to discern what it really represents.

Apply "real world" thinking to these designs to make them more believeable. Then finally render a vehicle that has its own integrity as a whole craft.

Previously in my original project I offered up glimpses of the direction I was leaning towards. While I'm not rejecting what I was initially considering I've since gone back to re-examine the original designs. My intent is to finalize designs that look more "real" yet are still recognizable in regards to the animated originals.

More "real" will mean some of the original proportions will have to be modified as well the depicted scale. For not only was the TAS E's flight deck shown vastly oversized yet it also housed numerous oversized shuttlecraft. That is all impossible in the reality of TOS.

Some basic viewpoints:
- I already dealt with the issue of the shuttlecraft Copernicus seen in "The Slaver Weapon." If the TAS stories had been filmed live-action then most likely they'd just have reused the established TOS shuttlecraft design. Even allowing for the miracle of newly available funds and resources for a variant shuttlecraft design it's questionable how much they could have changed. To that end I posited my Class H design as the "real" shuttlecraft Copernicus. That said I'm still intrigued with the TAS scoutship design, and so I will render what I consider to be a starbase based vehicle that is roughly analogous to a 23rd century runabout.

- The vehicle seen in "Mudd's Passion" will be a heavy lander that is loaned out to starships for specialized missions requiring access to unusually hostile environments.

- The craft seen in "The Ambergris Element" will be a specialized vehicle loaned out to starships for surveying aquatic environments. This means we must consider what it takes to submerge a vehicle and how it must operate in an aquatic environment. It's also helpful that in the past decade or so we have begun to see evermore sophisticated small subermisibles coming onto the scene in the real world (it sometimes pays to watch Daily Planet on The Discovery Channel).

And so will begin Starfleet Shuttlecraft, Starfleet Command Library Volume Two. Stay tuned as I hope to start posting some initial sketches.

 

[Sarvek]

I will keep tuned into this thread. I will also be looking forward to your sketches and computer images of these unique shuttlecraft.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

- I already dealt with the issue of the shuttlecraft Copernicus seen in "The Slaver Weapon." If the TAS stories had been filmed live-action then most likely they'd just have reused the established TOS shuttlecraft design. Even allowing for the miracle of newly available funds and resources for a variant shuttlecraft design it's questionable how much they could have changed. To that end I posited my Class H design as the "real" shuttlecraft Copernicus. That said I'm still intrigued with the TAS scoutship design, and so I will render what I consider to be a starbase based vehicle that is roughly analogous to a 23rd century runabout.

Works just fine for me. One thing to bear in mind is that this shuttle was never seen aboard the Enterprise anyway. Maybe the marking on the side wasn't "really" there, or maybe it was a mission-specific "applique" label which would be peeled off once the job was done, or something along that line?

It definitely wouldn't fit down the turntable-elevator, but it might be able to be landed and launched (basically restricting the use of the landing bay while it's there).

Otherwise, I think you're on the right track. I just prefer this solution - a detached vessel, not a permanent part of the Enterprise embarked complement - to saying that the ship in the episode was that far removed from what we saw (albeit in stylized animated form!) on-screen.

The vehicle seen in "Mudd's Passion" will be a heavy lander that is loaned out to starships for specialized missions requiring access to unusually hostile environments.

Works for me. It might be fun to come up with a reason that this ship was aboard Enterprise at the time.

Oh, and it actually works pretty well, if you assume (like with my statement regarding the "scout" shuttle Copernicus) that the shuttle was occupying the landing bay itself and thus was the first ship that would have to be launched. That's why Mudd would take it (even without FTL capability!) instead of one of the more conventional shuttles. Make sense?

The craft seen in "The Ambergris Element" will be a specialized vehicle loaned out to starships for surveying aquatic environments. This means we must consider what it takes to submerge a vehicle and how it must operate in an aquatic environment. It's also helpful that in the past decade or so we have begun to see evermore sophisticated small subermisibles coming onto the scene in the real world (it sometimes pays to watch Daily Planet on The Discovery Channel).

My one big suggestion on this would be to avoid trying to get too "out there"... ie, instead of having "buoyancy forcefields" or whatever, actually have ballast tanks in the "wing" areas, and a "caterpillar" type drive where water is moved into the front vents and out the back vents on those same "wings" for underwater propulsion. Try not to overcomplicate things... where real physics can do the job, use real physics, in other words.

The nice thing about this episode is that the Enterprise crew KNEW that they were going to a pellagic planet up-front, so it makes perfect sense that they'd have pulled a specialized shuttle for this job.

 

[Warped9]

^^ The heavy lander will have limited warp capability, possibly for those instances where you launch the craft from someways outside a solar system. The availability of warp power could also augment the heavy-duty antigrav generators aboard the vehicle.

The aquashuttle will have ballast tanks and while in (or on) an aquatic environment will be propelled by hydrojets. It will have no warp capability since it is strictly a orbit-to-surface vehicle that flies by fully enclosed antigrav generators. I just can't envision immersing nacelles or impulse engines in a liquid environment.

These three designs will all fit within a starship hangar (individually) on a temporary basis, but could not be permanently berthed there. It's also questionable whether they could even be turned around within tthe area although it might be possible. The scoutship only needs to be berthed for rendezvous purposes I should think assuming they don't just transport the transferring people or cargo off the craft.

I'm also studying the episodes themselves for small clues in regards to design inside and out. That can pay off since doing the same thing for TOS allowed me to finally discern exactly how the astrogator looks like on the Class F, most notably the base where it attaches to the console. The astrogator itself appears to be just a disk of transparent plastic with lines etched on it!

I admit the TAS interiors may likely diverge more in overall detail than the exteriors. The heavy lander is the one I think I will find the most challenging inside and out. It appears to have something of a split level interior with the cockpit area set higher than the entrance.

Finally I also hope to create photomanips or even possibly 3D modeling to depict the TAS designs as "real" live-action versions with live-action characters included in imaginary scenes.

 

[Warped9]

A little conceptual work done over a coffee and danish in a CountryStyle donut shop:

As noted above I'm considering the possible alternative of retractable azetpod(s) rather than hydrojets. An azetpod would also eliminate the need for a retractable rudder. Having a two piece rear hatch would also allow the upper hatch to be opened independently while the craft is on the surface possibly for some undefined experiments.

I'd be interested to hear any thoughts regarding the craft's potential speed surfaced as well as submerged, particular from those who may have any experience or knowledge of the performance of small watercraft and/or submersibles.

I think I've been able to adapt the TAS design into something a bit more credible while still looking similar enough to the original.

 

[Warped9]

^^ ????

 

[Redfern]

^^ ????

Most likely an automated spam-bot as he/she/it? has posted in several threads with similar non-sequiter word sequences.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[c5maier]

I should probably try out "a coffee and danish" if that is what it takes to come up with such nice concepts - but I actually doubt it would help in my case. Yours sure looks nicer than my go at the aqua shuttle .
One thing that struck me when I studied the design as shown on the "Ambergris Element" is the fact that the overall quite awkward and un-streamlined body features the same shape above and below the central plane.

In other depictions, it is made clear that the forward part of the upper step is actually a canopy, though it cannot be seen here (and neither in the "confrontation shot" with the sursnake). So I think it could quite well be postulated that the forward area of the bottom step is transparent as well. For a scientific submarine that is able to settle down on the seabottom (as we actually see it doing) this would make a lot of sense. It would be somewhat similar to a helicopter cockpit, or one could even have the helmsman lying on his tummy to get the best view down.
Now, I know of course that it was part of the script that the sursnake sneaked up on our heroes but that really should not have been as easy as shown and she could still do that from the rear in a similarly dramatic but more believable approach.
So, what do you think about that idea?
P.S. As you by now can expect from me: How about scaling it to not exceed 8 m / 27 ' approx.? Some of these craft in our day and age are terribly crammed but the time spent in one of those would not be so long as to create a problem with that.

 

[Warped9]

^^ If I were designing this from scratch I'd do it distinctly different myself. But I'm somewhat constrained by trying to keep the vehicle somewhat familiar and recognizable while also making it more credible.

Indeed they should have had motion sensors at least if not life sensors to tell them something potentially threatening was already near.

8m. is about the size of the Class F and thats just too small for how the vehicle is supposed to look. I'm already shrinking the interior so it isn't like what is seen onscreen. The dimensions I jotted down above are only approximations. When I start actually scaling the thing more exactly the dimensions could well come down there.

A transparent bottom is an interesting idea, but there's nothing on the original design to suggest it. Also I'm sure they have imaging sensors that can accurately display what lays beneath them just as they do onboard a starship.

In Alan Dean Foster's adaptation of the story he described the aquashuttle quite differently from what we saw onscreen. He described it as oval shaped with a fully transparent canopy and a bubble cockpit on top for the pilot. It sounds a little bit like what the Proteus looked like in the '66 film Fantastic Voyage. I toyed with the idea of a more bubble like fully transparent canopy for the design, but while it looks neat it's also too divergent from what the TAS design is. I'm using the original design as a general guide as opposed to trying to recreate exactly, just as I mentioned earlier upthread, but it should still be somewhat recognizable.

 

[Kagan]

W9, you need to go to CountryStyle donut shop more often.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Well, it is only right around the corner. I go there practically everyday. I grab a coffee there on the way to work and often stop off there after work to wind down with a coffee or hot chocolate and read the paper. But sometimes I just go for a walk to think and stop in for a refreshment.



I must say, though, I've gotten some of my better ideas while doodling there over a coffee.

 

[c5maier]

A transparent bottom is an interesting idea, but there's nothing on the original design to suggest it.

I probably didn't get the idea across well. I do not talk about a transparent bottom, just bring the waistline up a bit and fit a second band of windows upside down under it. I think the on-screen exterior view lends itself to that interpretation.
You are, however, correct that the interior differs, but I think it is just as badly thought out as in the other TAS episodes and can safely be disregarded.

 

[Warped9]

One thing I'm adding: if you look at the original there is a band that appears to run around the forward part of the hull. I'm going to adapt that as a sensor strip or something. Visually it will be just one more little thing that will tie my design to the original.

The design will also have a subtle wedge shape to it that isn't apparent on my above sketches, as well as some other exterior detailing to make the design less plain. I want to do this with all three TAS ships. Indeed if you study the TOS Class F design you'll see that it's actually not just a simple box, but there's a fair amount of interesting and subtle detailing to it.

I'll also have to add holes for the ballast water to be pumped in-and-out.

 

[Warped9]

Here's a couple of passages that I quite liked when I was a teenager in the '70s even though I soon understood them as quite impossible.

 

[B.J.]

From your first scanned page:
"The shuttle had been designed with underliquid maneuverability first in mind, in-flight navigability second."

So in other words, "Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow"?

 

[StarCruiser]

From your first scanned page:
"The shuttle had been designed with underliquid maneuverability first in mind, in-flight navigability second."

So in other words, "Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow"?

Yes - and it's black, the kind of black that makes a black hole jealous...

 

[Warped9]

That second hilighted passage is interesting in its own way because nowhere in "The Slaver Weapon" or ADF's adaptation is the Copernicus referred to as a small superfast scoutship. Fans just made that connection. The heavy lander connection is obvious although the term was never used in the aired episode.

However, while one of the craft seen in a panning shot of the flight deck in TAS could be taken as similar to the TOS Class F design none of the others looks like a light planetary flier.

 

[Warped9]

This post is just a shameless bump. Although I drop TAS bits into My TOS shuttlecraft thread periodically this bump is just a more solid reminder that this project will get more focus when the TOS shuttlecraft work is completed.

My thing is that even while I'm focused on one main project I still like to ponder and play with other things to keep myself from getting tired of working on only one thing.

Not only am I thinking ahead in terms of the TAS shuttlecraft, but eventually I want to do something involving the Pike era Enterprise.

A little more on-topic. I'm trying to get a handle on how to decently adapt the heavy lander into a more credibly "real" design. As depicted onscreen it would be hopelessly large, too large to get into the E's hangar. Again it's a matter of trying to evoke the original design while rendering something more believable.

But for now:

 

[sojourner]

maybe those are inlets for waterjet propulsion like on a jetskis?

Oh, my bad, got confused with another thread. was thinking of the aqua shuttle. That'll teach me to post right after waking.
(though with the hull shape it does look water capable)

 

[Warped9]

^^ I haven't added the landing stabilizers yet.

I haven't been able to sketch out something I really like in terms of the heavy lander, at least not while still trying to evoke the original. On the onscreen version the nose is too damned long and the viewport placement makes it look like it has a double level interior. I'm just going to have to temper both of those elements.