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Politics of Star Trek

Ny.

Ensign
Newbie
Hi folks,

New here and here for a particular reason.
I'm study social and economic models and have always had an interested in the idea Picard presents in First Contact, "the economics of the future are somewhat different" and continues to explain.

Understandably we don't have replicators for food and resources but I'm considering writing my paper on this as a social model as it has interested me for some years.
I was hoping that you folks could help out and point me in the right direction to any relavent further sources of information regarding this.

Many thanks for any help
Hope you're all well

Ny
 
Bottom line, for the everyday citizen the Federation is a post-scarcity society. You have unlimited, clean power, and a replicator that can make almost anything,

Ii recommend to check out DS9 episode 5x25 “In the Cards”.
Jake Sisko quotes Picard, and it shows a slice of life interaction where the Human from a moneyless society works with a Ferengi to trade their way to a unique item.

If movie/TV Trek isn’t exhaustive enough for your paper, I’d recommend checking out games and novels as well.
 
Hello,
Thank you for such a quick reply.
I'll defiantly take a look. I had assumed that most of it would be in the literacy, it's just where to start as there is quite a bit of it.
Yes, without replicators it is a hard concept to think about in regards to food and resources, why would people work in jobs like the ones needed to provide for society..? That's a question I'll need to discuss heavily.

Thanks again
 
Why is this thread called "Politics in Star Trek" when the question is about economics? :shrug:
Hi.
To create any form of economic or social model you need policy/laws. This would still be done in a similar model of today, councils of peers at least, discussing and debating matters to decide the best course of action. That's politics.
That's what I'm trying to find.
 
You have people stating that there's no money. And then you have numerious examples of people in the Federation using money, talking about doing things with money, buying items in the Federation, selling things in the Federation.

The references to the existance of money in the Federation far out number the few claims that it no longer exists.

On Earth in the 24th century Miles O'Brein grew up in a home with no replicator, but his wife did have one growing up. Picard's bother doesn't, yet he is able to maintain a household and run a fairly large winery. There's some evidense that Sisko's father also doesn't have a replicator (he and his grandson went out for suppies) and he can run a resturant.
 
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Why is this thread called "Politics in Star Trek" when the question is about economics? :shrug:
My best guess: because politicians have been at the mercy of how the economy does throughout history and many are voted in based on how they say they'll prioritize spending.

Once money as we understand it is out of the picture, there are still resources that have to be prioritized. So resources become the new money. And the priorities become the politician's platform.
 
Earth is a post-scarcity society, and this idea has been expanded throughout the Federation. However other species still use money, so resources have to be bartered with others.

Now, while it is noted in ENT and TOS that Starfleet officers earn their pay, I don’t think it is meant to be taken literally.

VOY (episode "Dark Frontier") mentioned something about the New World Economy taking hold in the late 22nd century and money becoming nonexistent. However, Sisko mentioned in "Past Tense" that the world that Starfleet recognized was at least a century away, i.e. 2113, even though the Bell Riots of 2024 were the beginning of change towards that world, WW3 and post atomic horror aside. And there isn’t a world government until 2150, a year before the NX-01 launches, which will have its own impact on the economy.

The absence of greed seems to be the main philosophy behind the origins of a moneyless society. Which is something humans and Ferengi will disagree on.
 
Hi folks,

New here and here for a particular reason.
I'm study social and economic models and have always had an interested in the idea Picard presents in First Contact, "the economics of the future are somewhat different" and continues to explain.

Understandably we don't have replicators for food and resources but I'm considering writing my paper on this as a social model as it has interested me for some years.
I was hoping that you folks could help out and point me in the right direction to any relavent further sources of information regarding this.

Many thanks for any help
Hope you're all well

Ny

Assuming that the instructor/professor wants an academic/critical/theoretical/whatever foundation for the research project, there were a couple books published in 2016 that you might want to start with: Trekonomics: The Economics of Star Trek by economist Manu Saadia, and the edited essay collection The Ultimate Star Trek and Philosophy: The Search for Socrates, specifically chapter 11, "Federation Trekonomics: Marx, the Federation, and the Shift from Necessity to Freedom" by Jeff Ewing. Ewing makes a proof version available for free viewing on his website: http://reeljeffewing.com/ultimate-star-trek-and-philosophy/ (hover the mouse over the image to pring up the page navigation and zoom-in controls)

Kor
 
Human society in Star Trek is effectively communist, but more like the Marxist ideal rather than any state that called itself communist in the real world.
And it's like that because it's post-scarcity, which isn't something Marx envisaged, and the state still exists, whereas he argued it would eventually dissolve.
So not capitalism, but not Marxism either (without getting into the way Marx was reinterpreted by Lenin etc).
So... post-scarcity makes most current politics and economics irrelevant (the latter tends to be based on supply/demand, the former on approaches to managing that).
 
Human society in Star Trek is effectively communist
Is there anything you can point to (dialog, situations) to back this?
Earth is a post-scarcity society
I don't think so. There's enough mentions of money use on Earth and in the Federation to believe that they do have a market economy. And we hear of them going to far away star systems to acquire resources, this implies that they have to.

It's a comfortable society, but there's no indication that it's "post scarcity."
Now, while it is noted in ENT and TOS that Starfleet officers earn their pay, I don’t think it is meant to be taken literally.
I do, even Picard made mention (Captain's Holiday) of having the ability to make a purchase.

Dr. Crusher had a account with which she could make a private purchase.
VOY (episode "Dark Frontier") mentioned something about the New World Economy taking hold in the late 22nd century and money becoming nonexistent.
And after the 22nd century Humans have money, we hear them talk about it.
The absence of greed seems to be the main philosophy behind the origins of a moneyless society.
The problem I have with this is what is sometimes call "the planet of hats." Where the entire population of a planet have a single culture, philosophy, society.

And while this might be a conveniance for lazy writers, it unlikely that multiple billions of individuals are all going embrace a single philosophy. More likely in the 24th century there are going to be people who reject greed and others to whom it is the driving core of their lives, with the bulk of the population falling somewhere inbetween.

Unless you want to stipulate a brutal "thought police" enforced societal system.

I believe to truely understand what the system for Earth/Humans is, you have to somehow reconcile all the verbal statements and actions concerning money into one cohesive whole. Which to be honest is difficult. But to (very) simply accept some, while summarily rejecting other, I don't think is going to give you a accurate picture.

Kirk said money doesn't exist, yet he speaks of selling a house. Somehow both are true statements.

I favor "no money" to mean no physical money, personal assets (without using the term money) are present as electronic bookkeeping.

Which would work quite nicely with Kirk's words to Gillian, and his earlier observation of the woman buying a newspaper from a vending machine. Also would allow Kirk to buy and sale a house.

It would also work with Dr. Crusher, and her reference to her "account."

But is a little more difficult when it came to Picard's conversation with the late 20th century businessman. The businessman would have been throughly familiar with the concept of money solely as bookkeeping, and having no physical existance. However Picard, with his obvious distain for the time period, might not have known this.

Jake (In The Cards) as a minor child might not have had a separate account of his own yet. But this doesn't completely work with Jake's words.
 
Assuming that the instructor/professor wants an academic/critical/theoretical/whatever foundation for the research project, there were a couple books published in 2016 that you might want to start with: Trekonomics: The Economics of Star Trek by economist Manu Saadia, and the edited essay collection The Ultimate Star Trek and Philosophy: The Search for Socrates, specifically chapter 11, "Federation Trekonomics: Marx, the Federation, and the Shift from Necessity to Freedom" by Jeff Ewing. Ewing makes a proof version available for free viewing on his website: http://reeljeffewing.com/ultimate-star-trek-and-philosophy/ (hover the mouse over the image to pring up the page navigation and zoom-in controls)

Kor
Thank you
 
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The shows themselves keep the specifics of the Federation's system of government and the moneyless society pretty vague, by necessity. If you want to read some speculation/extrapolation of what the United Federation of Planets' system of government is like in the world of Star Trek, you may want to check out the novel Articles of the Federation by @KRAD.
 
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I know that TOS pretty consistently implied that money was still a thing in the time that the show took place. In one episode ("The Apple", IIRC) Kirk tells Scotty, "You've earned your pay for the week" and in another ("Errand of Mercy", maybe?), Kirk says to Spock that Starfleet has a lot of money invested in their training. And Uhura pays for her Tribble in "The Trouble With Tribbles" with credits, preceded by a scene with Cyrano Jones haggling with a bartender. In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, it's a running gag that they don't have money in the 23rd Century, although presumably they just meant that they didn't have 20th Century era currency. And then in the 24th Century era shows, they took the joke literally and kept saying that money was no longer a thing.

Star Trek Script Search may be a useful resource for you in finding episodes with references to the economics of Star Trek, BTW. You can just search for terms like "money", "credits", "economy", and others. The site seems to be down at the moment, though.
 
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It's a comfortable society, but there's no indication that it's "post scarcity."

The existence of replicators in the 24th century suggests that it is.

The problem I have with this is what is sometimes call "the planet of hats." Where the entire population of a planet have a single culture, philosophy, society.

And while this might be a conveniance for lazy writers, it unlikely that multiple billions of individuals are all going embrace a single philosophy. More likely in the 24th century there are going to be people who reject greed and others to whom it is the driving core of their lives, with the bulk of the population falling somewhere inbetween.

Unless you want to stipulate a brutal "thought police" enforced societal system.

I believe to truely understand what the system for Earth/Humans is, you have to somehow reconcile all the verbal statements and actions concerning money into one cohesive whole. Which to be honest is difficult. But to (very) simply accept some, while summarily rejecting other, I don't think is going to give you a accurate picture.

Kirk said money doesn't exist, yet he speaks of selling a house. Somehow both are true statements.

I favor "no money" to mean no physical money, personal assets (without using the term money) are present as electronic bookkeeping.

Which would work quite nicely with Kirk's words to Gillian, and his earlier observation of the woman buying a newspaper from a vending machine. Also would allow Kirk to buy and sale a house.

It would also work with Dr. Crusher, and her reference to her "account."

But is a little more difficult when it came to Picard's conversation with the late 20th century businessman. The businessman would have been throughly familiar with the concept of money solely as bookkeeping, and having no physical existance. However Picard, with his obvious distain for the time period, might not have known this.

Jake (In The Cards) as a minor child might not have had a separate account of his own yet. But this doesn't completely work with Jake's words.

An economy based on personal assets instead of bookkeeping seems plausible, since personal property is seemingly allowed.

I guess it boils down as to whether credits are considered personal assets as well.

I know that TOS pretty consistently implied that money was still a thing in the time that the show took place. In one episode ("The Apple", IIRC) Kirk tells Scotty, "You've earned your pay for the week" and in another ("Errand of Mercy", maybe?), Kirk says to Spock that Starfleet has a lot of money invested in their training. And Uhura pays for her Tribble in "The Trouble With Tribbles" with credits, preceded by a scene with Cyrano Jones haggling with a bartender. In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, it's a running gag that they don't have money in the 23rd Century, although presumably they just meant that they didn't have 20th Century era currency. And then in the 24th Century era shows, they took the joke literally and kept saying that money was no longer a thing.

Star Trek Script Search may be a useful resource for you in finding episodes with references to the economics of Star Trek, BTW. You can just search for terms like "money", "credits", "economy", and others. The site seems to be down at the moment, though.

"You've earn your pay for the week," meaning you done your share of hard work for the week, and are entitled to a break.

"having a lot of money invested," meaning a lot riding on its success. Which is different from physical money.

A lot of it just seems like slang in Kirk’s time.
 
Have a look at the concept of the resource based economy — a hypothetical model which completely eschews both money and politics. I heard it of via the late great Jacques Fresco, and it is basically Star Trek’s vision of the future through and through. I see it as the only way out of the godawful system we’re stuck in, but sadly can’t imagine anyone with the vision, guts or support to ever establish one, unless our current society collapses I guess.
 
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since personal property is seemingly allowed
That sound scary, that there would be someone or a agency who decide that you would be "allowed" to possess personal property.

The existence of replicators in the 24th century suggests that it is.
But there are several referances to people who do not haves replicator, so that machine is not ubiquious through future society, we don't even know if it would be considered common. People can live their lives without it.

the late great Jacques Fresco
The guy who would remove democracy from Humanity.
 
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