Please cite one example of misogyny in any post in this thread. Disagreeing with wokeness and SJW stupidity is not misogyny. However, the constant attacks on any type of masculinity, and the sheer man hating in your post certainly wreaks of misandry.
Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
Kirk Prime, you will not receive an honest answer. Dishonesty and obvious hatred are the tools of the hypocritical ideologue, using it to get off on hurling inapplicable insults as you see in the quotes above yours. It is also as a way to use propaganda against anyone "daring" to see the show for what it is: a show with a long history of misandry in its scripts, but ohh no, mistreatment is only the work of alleged misogynists.
I think a simple way to basically put this is superheroes, while they can have depth and even be used to explore issues have something else that makes them appealing and that is the ability to simply be cool or badass and basically things that appeal to I guess you could call our inner teenager or less mature side that likes things on that level. Superman didn't become a Iconic character just because he is allegory of Jesus or a immigrant. Those things add layers to give him depth but he is also popular for simply being super stronger than everyone else and being able to fly and do things that normal humans can't all while being humble about it. He didn't become iconic for being a nice affable sidekick that can handle himself in a fight.
He is basically the Barry Sanders of superheroes. Barry Sanders was maybe the most exciting RB in NFL history and maybe the best ever as well but when he scored a td he didn't do a victory dance he simple tossed the ball to the ref like it was no big deal. Well this show has not been able to really capture the more basic fun elements of the character that really are that of just someone kicking ass in a fun way that excites the imagination. Which does kind of do disservice to him because when Superman shows up it is a very big deal and maybe people do want to see him elevated in ways you wouldn't even other comic book characters that show up.
And to me this is why I think the fight to a drawl is always the best way to go in these situations. For some people Supergirl is their favorite and others it's Superman. People don't want to see their favorite taken down a notch in this way. I mean if Supergirl lost the fight we would be having this exact same argument and people would be mad that Supergirl was made to look weak by losing to the more famous Superman. It doesn't matter if she was cool with it. Fans would be pissed and frankly they would have the right to. To have your hero lead loose on her own show It would be a bad call.
Jason
He is basically the Barry Sanders of superheroes. Barry Sanders was maybe the most exciting RB in NFL history and maybe the best ever as well but when he scored a td he didn't do a victory dance he simple tossed the ball to the ref like it was no big deal. Well this show has not been able to really capture the more basic fun elements of the character that really are that of just someone kicking ass in a fun way that excites the imagination. Which does kind of do disservice to him because when Superman shows up it is a very big deal and maybe people do want to see him elevated in ways you wouldn't even other comic book characters that show up.
And to me this is why I think the fight to a drawl is always the best way to go in these situations. For some people Supergirl is their favorite and others it's Superman. People don't want to see their favorite taken down a notch in this way. I mean if Supergirl lost the fight we would be having this exact same argument and people would be mad that Supergirl was made to look weak by losing to the more famous Superman. It doesn't matter if she was cool with it. Fans would be pissed and frankly they would have the right to. To have your hero lead loose on her own show It would be a bad call.
Jason
Well, they just gave him his own show where he'll have plenty of opportunities to do that, so why are you still complaining?
Besides, Clark Kent has already had four live-action TV series, four solo animated series, two theatrical serials, two feature film series, and numerous direct-to-DVD animated movies in which he had a starring role and quite a few others where he was a supporting character. He's not exactly starved for attention.
What a bizarre notion. Superman would recoil at that thought. He's not a god. That's missing the entire point of who and what he is. He's just a farmboy helping his neighbors. With all his power, he has never once tried to place himself above other people, to act like he's better than anyone else. What makes him so extraordinary is not that he can lift a mountain -- it's that even though he can lift a mountain, he is endlessly in awe of us, of ordinary human beings and the extraordinary potential he sees in every one of us. The greatest Superman moment ever written was not about showing off his might and power -- it was about helping someone else have faith in her own strength. Superman's greatest power is that he believes in us. That's what makes him special in a universe where a lot of beings have "godlike" physical power. And that's an aspect that Supergirl has captured as well as any adaptation ever has.
As I think I said before, that's just the needs of storytelling. It's a common concern in writing superheroes that's hardly limited to just this show. You don't want your heroes to be too powerful, because it makes things too easy for them. It's more dramatic, more exciting, if the heroes are underdogs, if the odds are stacked against them. So iwhen the hero is the most powerful character in the story, that creates a storytelling problem. It's always been an issue with stories about Superman, the Flash, and other extraordinarily powerful characters. It's something Superman writers have been wrestling with for generations, with many creators (e.g. Dennis O'Neill and Elliot Maggin in the '70s, John Byrne in the '80s, Bruce Timm et al. in Superman: TAS) choosing to restrict Superman's powers so that he'd be more vulnerable and the threats he faced would be more of a challenge -- while other writers have given him effectively "godlike" powers yet still not had him use them consistently.
I'm not complaining. I'm just giving my opinion. I mean do kind of wish the issue would go away and hopefully the tv show will do the character justice but every once it awhile it shows back up and like Michael Corleone in part 3 it's like "Just when I thought I was out, They pull me back in."
Jason
Jason
Your posting history reeks (note spelling) of it. "Nora can't be faster than Barry." "Lena can't be smarter than Lex." And endlessly, obsessively, literally for years, "Kara can't be stronger than Clark." Are we seeing a pattern yet?
Prejudice doesn't have to be explicit to be present and observable. (Your new pal TG1 is welcome to dispute that one if he likes.) Your entire attitude drips with defensiveness and hostility toward any suggestion that men are not better than women in all things.
None of that is misogyny--it's based on a history of the male counterparts not only being invented first, but being at the top of their game. You need to get a grasp of reality, especially when it comes to physicality. You take the women's soccer team that won the gold, put them against a high school boys soccer team, and they lose. How do I know this? It happened.
You take the top women's tennis player in the world, and put her up against any man in the top 200--the woman loses badly.
Take the best women's basketball team in the world, and stick them in Division III college--they get crushed.
There is a reason men and women's sports are separate--that's not misogyny--that's a different animal.
Likewise, the idea that Supergirl could beat Superman in a fair fight is absurd and that's not misogyny.
As for Lex--he is one of the smartest people in the universe--that's DC established lore, so Lena being smarter is simply an attempt on the writers to be woke.
There is no comic counterpart that has Nora faster than Barry, and it would make zero sense since she has half of Iris' genetics. At best, she should be half of what Barry is, or MAYBE, equal, less the normal physical differences between a man and a woman.
When something is natural, it's fine. My love of the Wonder Woman movie throws your theories out the window. When something is forced, it is not.
Example--Xena was a well trained fighter who trained with the God of War and fought her whole life. Seeing her beat up any mortal is no big deal and expected.
But Gabrielle, who just spent one episode with the Amazons and did not grow up fighting, suddenly being able to take on trained soldiers is ridiculous.
On the male side--Daniel LaRusso trains for six weeks and can beat black belts is equally ridiculous.
At no point have I said men are better than women at all things. The irony is that you are the one with the sexist attitude--it's just that your hatred is toward men.
Being a dude, my alleged hatred toward men is certainly an impressive mental contortion on my part.
And your playing the Wonder Woman card was predictable. It's your go-to, "I have a black friend" argument. Not impressed, nor convinced.
As for the rest of your post, you're just showing more of your ass.
And your playing the Wonder Woman card was predictable. It's your go-to, "I have a black friend" argument. Not impressed, nor convinced.
As for the rest of your post, you're just showing more of your ass.
So in other words, you have no response. There are men who act misandrist. That doesn't mean anything.
I gave you multiple examples, but I hate to break it to you, but your "I have a black friend" comment is a tad racist.
I gave you multiple examples, but I hate to break it to you, but your "I have a black friend" comment is a tad racist.
Self-hate is a long-recognized psychological dysfunction, and is seen within gender, race, class, categories, among others.
Inapplicable and personally offensive, if you knew the deep history behind that reference.
No, you are ignoring verifiable examples where in-universe, either something makes sense to reality, or it does not (e.g., the Daniel LaRusso or Xena points). Ignoring evidence that can firmly stand your neverending attempt to play this game is not doing a thing for you--other than use this thread to spew hatred.
Since speedsters get their speed from the speedforce, her genetics is irrelevant. Her sex is irrelevant. It comes down to how they tap into the Speedforce. If Nora is faster than Barry, that can be because A) Barry hasn't tapped in to his full potential or B) Nora has tapped in at a higher level than Barry.
@Kirk Prime The USWNT's loss to a U15 boy's team had nothing to do with gender.
The loss happened because it was a "friendly" - a game entirely without stakes - and the USWNT was treating it as such, which means they were intentionally not playing to their fullest potential.
If you're going to try and cite real-world examples to try and disguise or downplay your misogyny, you might want to do some research for context.
The loss happened because it was a "friendly" - a game entirely without stakes - and the USWNT was treating it as such, which means they were intentionally not playing to their fullest potential.
If you're going to try and cite real-world examples to try and disguise or downplay your misogyny, you might want to do some research for context.
Nice little excuse there, but that sounds like a sore loser rather than a fact. But hey, let's pretend you're right and not just being misandrist. What if that woman's team, the best in the world, played the men's US team? What do you think would happen?
By your fake feminism, and I say it's fake, in your world, you would think that the women would stand a chance. If that's true, why have girls/women's sports?
What would happen if the WNBA opened up to men? You think any women would actually be there?
Again, I challenge you to point to any actual misogyny. Do you even know what the word means?
HERE, you're making an argument that does not involve misandry or whining. It actually uses the DC universe as a means of potentially attempting to explain Nora being faster than Barry. Of course, the actual DC universe differs, but this is a legitimate argument.
Check this out:
https://www.cbr.com/fastest-characters-dcs/
While I’m not sure I agree with everything you say either, I appreciate the response.
It's not an excuse. Do some research.
The Men's team would lose.
And I base this conclusion solely and exclusively on the fact that the USMNT's International success pales in comparison to that of the USWMNT.
I think there’s room between making them completely invincible and making them unreasonably weak. I understand the need for dramatic tension, but some of the stuff that happens to them just makes you shake your head. At the very least don’t be lazy about it as a writer (IMO), and throw in a reasonable explanation about why a certain mundane opponent is able to convincingly beat SM or SG. And on the other side of things, give our heroes a chance to show what they’re truly capable of in terms of power. I miss that from the earlier seasons of SG; while she was sometimes beat down by mundane opponents, there was generally reason given (eg. she wasn’t trained in fighting, she was distracted personally, it was a family member, there was kryptonite, she was massively outnumbered, etc.), and she was also given opportunities to show her strength in terms of powers (eg. lifting Fort Rozz, beating Red Tornado, stopping a huge spaceship from entering space, etc.). As the show has progressed it feels they’ve made her progressively weaker and given her less opportunities to use her most astounding powers.
It feels like I’m always bashing the writers, but I just think there are certain things they don’t write very well. They are very proficient at writing Kara’s ability to simultaneously be both vulnerable yet strong emotionally; in fact I think it’s one of the strongest points of the show coupled with Melissa’s acting ability in these scenes. But when it comes to other things like writing her physical ability or her relationships with certain characters (cough Lena cough), it’s like they get lazy or intentionally write things a certain way to piss off the fanbase.
Yeah, and that's a judgment call that fans have been debating about countless superhero stories for decades. It's hardly an issue unique to this show. Heck, I think The Flash is far worse with it -- "I just searched at superspeed and the villain's totally disappeared even though they were last on camera 15 seconds ago."
Personally, I prefer it when Superman's or Supergirl's powers aren't so absurdly great as to take away all the suspense. I like the early Fleischer cartoons where Superman could be overpowered by getting tangled in electric wires or overwhelmed by a flow of molten lava. There was a genuine sense of tension there, not necessarily that Superman would die, but that he might be too late to save others. Superman: The Animated Series also kept his powers comparatively limited, at least at the beginning, when he had to struggle to catch a crashing plane and was barely able to succeed. That was much more effective than if he'd been wielding the powers of a "god," making for more suspenseful and more creative action, and it made it more credible that various antagonists could pose a reasonable threat. When Superman (or -girl) is made too powerful, then the only way to balance that is to bring out kryptonite every other week, and that gets tedious and ridiculous.
And I am very, very sick of the easily pissed-off minority of every fanbase arrogantly insisting they represent the entirety of fandom. It's really insulting to those of us fans who don't share their negativity. They don't speak for us and have no damn right to pretend they do.
Another example of Kara using her abilities in impressive fashion was last season, when she was trapped in the Nth metal in that industrial plant, and took flight from her immobilized position, carrying the entire building aloft with her. "I'm not struggling. I'm flying!" Awesome moment (beautifully adapted from a similar scene in a JLA comic from a few years back).
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