George Takei on why the original ‘Star Trek’ never featured a gay character

[Danja]

The original “Star Trek” series may not have lived long, but it prospered.

The TV show ran for three, low-rated seasons on NBC in the late 1960s, but later found a large, devoted following in reruns. The sci-fi series prided itself on its portrayal of an interracial, international cast of characters careening heroically across the galaxy in the starship “Enterprise.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/ge...inal-star-trek-never-featured-a-gay-character

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I suspect Takei's chat with Roddenberry on this subject occurred in the late-1980s. Nobody would dream of having a gay character on Star Trek in 1966, and closeted George Takei would have refused to play it if they did. Making Sulu gay in 1966 would have been mutually-assured career suicide, and again, it would never even be considered.

 

[NCC-73515]

People were complaining about Dax's kiss in the 90s, can you imagine reactions in the 60s-80s?

 

[Maurice]

Why?

1. Because Star Trek was not this big pioneering show some of its adherents make it out to be
2. It was pre-Stonewall
3. In 1968, the DSM-II listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In 1973 it was changed to a Sexual Orientation Disturbance (SOD). It wasn't until 1987 (TNG era) that it was completely removed.
4. Because NBC probably wouldn't have allowed it

Duh.

 

[Mysterion]

If David Gerrold couldn't get an episode with gay guest characters on the air for TNG (Blood and Fire) in the mid-1980's, damn sure there was zero chance of a regular/recurring gay character ever happening on TOS.

And Maurice is totally correct in his points cited above, especially #1.

 

[Pauln6]

Frustratingly, they could have done it without making a big deal of it. The whole Dembledore is gay thing or even Bert and Ernie shows that it is possible to feature 'gay' characters where the audience can read what they like into it and conservatives don't have to choke on their own moral indignation.

That said, if 8-10% of the population is gay or bisexual, I think it's better to have more overt representation on screen. It does amuse me when straight white America is crying foul for there not being enough heroic straight white male characters in Discovery without any hint of irony.

 

[Qonundrum]

Why?

1. Because Star Trek was not this big pioneering show some of its adherents make it out to be
2. It was pre-Stonewall
3. In 1968, the DSM-II listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In 1973 it was changed to a Sexual Orientation Disturbance (SOD). It wasn't until 1987 (TNG era) that it was completely removed.
4. Because NBC probably wouldn't have allowed it

Duh.

I read the same article yesterday and it's surprisingly clickbait.

 

[Maurice]

Bert and Ernie aren’t gay any more than Buster Keaton and Fattie Arbuckle’s characters were in the shorts they did together. Sleeping in the same room or the same bed doesn’t mean having sex.

 

[Marsden]

Bert and Ernie aren’t gay any more than Buster Keaton and Fattie Arbuckle’s characters were in the shorts they did together. Sleeping in the same room or the same bed doesn’t mean having sex.

Plus, aren't they kids? Ernie sings to his rubber ducky and Bert's big into pigeons.


I don't want this to sound mean spirited, but has anyone checked George for mental functioning lately? Some of what he says just sounds delusional. Maybe it's the company he keeps, there may be people encouraging him/using him.

 

[Maurice]

Sadly, spinning tall tales is stock and trade for a lot of people involve with an peripheral to Trek, and George has been pretty transparently self-serving in this regard for a while.

The earliest portrayal of gays on American TV I am aware of (courtesy @Harvey) was the 1st episode of the 1967–69 drama N.Y.P.D. titled "Shakedown"which involved a man blackmailing gay men, prompting several suicides.

 

[diankra]

Frustratingly, they could have done it without making a big deal of it. The whole Dembledore is gay thing or even Bert and Ernie shows that it is possible to feature 'gay' characters where the audience can read what they like into it and conservatives don't have to choke on their own moral indignation.

That said, if 8-10% of the population is gay or bisexual, I think it's better to have more overt representation on screen. It does amuse me when straight white America is crying foul for there not being enough heroic straight white male characters in Discovery without any hint of irony.

Almost any of the TOS characters could be gay - or bi - without us knowing. Kirk is probably the most sexually active character we see, but apart from that comment in the TMP novelisation (and even that suggests he prefers women, implying...) there's nothing to prove that he is only interested in women, though that is all we see onscreen.

 

[Pauln6]

Bert and Ernie aren’t gay any more than Buster Keaton and Fattie Arbuckle’s characters were in the shorts they did together. Sleeping in the same room or the same bed doesn’t mean having sex.

Exactly. You can tell yourself that and it's fine.

 

[urbandefault]

Exactly. You can tell yourself that and it's fine.

Bert and Ernie are puppets on TV. Nothing below the screen. People need to just stop trying to make things into what they aren't.

 

[Pauln6]

Bert and Ernie are puppets on TV. Nothing below the screen. People need to just stop trying to make things into what they aren't.

Exactly. You can tell yourself that and it's fine. That's all the children will care about. The rest is nonsense anyway.

But I stress again. You can tell yourself that and it's fine.

 

[Maurice]

Exactly. You can tell yourself that and it's fine. That's all the children will care about. The rest is nonsense anyway.

But I stress again. You can tell yourself that and it's fine.

They're puppets created to show children how two really different personalities can be friends. This need to overlay something "adult" on everything is tiresome, as is your broken record. Saying it twice or thrice doesn't make it any truer.

But I'm done wasting ASCII on your posts over this.
—30—

 

[ZapBrannigan]

What makes the idea even sillier is that Bert and Ernie famously hate each other off screen. If you think they sleep in the same suitcase, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[NCC-73515]

Bert and Ernie aren’t gay any more than Buster Keaton and Fattie Arbuckle’s characters were in the shorts they did together. Sleeping in the same room or the same bed doesn’t mean having sex.

Not having sex doesn't mean straight. XD

Almost any of the TOS characters could be gay - or bi - without us knowing. Kirk is probably the most sexually active character we see, but apart from that comment in the TMP novelisation (and even that suggests he prefers women, implying...) there's nothing to prove that he is only interested in women, though that is all we see onscreen.

What was that comment in the novel?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

What was that comment in the novel?

Cringe. I don't remember the exact wording in the TMP novelization, but as I see it, it was Roddenberry imitating a better novelist, Robert A. Heinlein, who sometimes made super-casual sex a matter-of-fact thing in the future. Presenting big societal or moral changes in a matter of fact tone was a Heinlein trademark. But it didn't fit the tone or morals of The Original Series at all, and GR should have known that.

 

[donners22]

“He said the starship Enterprise is a metaphor for starship Earth,” Takei told the PBS NewsHour in a recent interview. “And the strength of this starship is in its diversity, coming together and working in concert as a team. And he cast accordingly.”

Yeah, it had nothing to do with the memo he got from NBC openly encouraging a diverse cast, as opposed to the quite non-diverse cast which featured in his original pilot.

Takei said Roddenberry wanted to have a gay character but said he feared network executives would balk and might cancel the show. Takei described Roddenberry telling him, “I’d like to do that, but he said ‘I’m walking a tightrope.’

Funny, because Roddenberry himself said in 1991:

My attitude toward homosexuality has changed. I came to the conclusion that I was wrong [...] I gave the impression of being thoughtless in these areas. I have, over many years, changed my attitude about gay men and women.

 

[Pauln6]

They're puppets created to show children how two really different personalities can be friends. This need to overlay something "adult" on everything is tiresome, as is your broken record. Saying it twice or thrice doesn't make it any truer.

But I'm done wasting ASCII on your posts over this.
—30—

This is partly true. Sesame Street is also trying to help children learn about adult life in a way they can understand.

Do I think it was intended for Bert and Ernie to be gay? No.

Do I think adults should be telling a gay child who can see something comforting in that relationship that they are wrong? Also no.

Edit: Plus another fictional example is Xena and Gabrielle. The writers never intended the characters to have a sexual dimension to their relationship but after reading fan speculation they started to seed in oodles of innuendo for those that liked the idea.