Sorry about that, but it looked interesting.
JAMES CAWLEY SPEAKS!
- Thread starter HerbFlynn
- Start date
Sorry about that, but it looked interesting.
He posts a lot in the tv subsection.
Stilll. 8. Months. Old.
Matthew let me ask you a question. How would you in your mind carve out this very narrow fair rights exception without allowing people like peters to take advantage of it keeping in mind he already argued fair use unsuccessfully with current fair use laws.
You always have people who you give an inch and they take a mile.
So how would you make it work?
You always have people who you give an inch and they take a mile.
So how would you make it work?
Not to be all Maurice about it, but I really think that particular tangent needs a new thread.
Very little to do with the specific James Cawley/New Voyages/Studio Tour situation.
Very little to do with the specific James Cawley/New Voyages/Studio Tour situation.
Good luck with the thread, I hope achieves what you want it to, but, I've said my say.
Let's not be uncivil.
Vic ignored it, what makes him special??? Role the dice, Vic didn't seem interested in following those comments from CBS officials.
Agreed, which is why I think Trekfan-filmmakers should pull the 501(c)(3) status card, and talk to CBS as if that was so convenient. Cawley may have given up on them, but I think it's such a waste of time, money and energy for the supporters of these projects has not seen their work exposed in the light of day.
These projects were already wrapped before the CBS guidelines which doesn't effect CBS' special buddy Vic Mignogna; who made at least 4 more trekfan-films after the guidelines. Even Alec Peters complimented Vic for not following the notes by the hypocrites of CBS. Everyone should have the right to make their own Trekfanfilm however long it maybe and cast who they want because Vic did.
The platform has to be fair, people; CBS shouldn't threaten others for making films in good taste and as long as there isn't a financial gain to it then why not? I'm not saying filmmakers should make faux and redundant TOS stories like Vic had done, but make characters and settings within the Star Trek world where Kirk and Spock and the Enterprise are around but are never seen.
I think pulling the the 501(c)(3) status excuse may be a way to go, and simply drop CBS a call.
Vic simply finished films that had already been funded for and promised and shut down without completing the additional episodes he had originally planned to do. That is why CBS left him alone. If he had gone back to crowdfunding for the last 2 films then there is a good chance CBS would have asked him to cease.
NOBODY has a right to make fan films period because you do not own the copyright to it. You are playing in somebody else's sandbox and so have to behave by their rules and just because they didn't throw one person out of the sandbox doesn't mean they won't throw you out.
I fully expect we are going to see some fan production try to just completely ignore every rule and claim 501c3 or this or that and get themselves a C&D from CBS. What happens after that will be interesting.
Um, no. The platform DOES NOT need to be fair. Why? CBS OWNS THE IP.
That means:
- They set the rules for gaining a License (which is how they make their money from the IP.)
- They get to decide who will be allowed to use the IP and dictate EXACTLY how they want it to be used in a particular instance.
The Guidelines specifically state they give up no rights whatsoever (nor do they grant any implicit rights by posting the Guidelines). If CBS decides they want to sue you for doing a fan film - EVEN IF you followed all the Guidlines to the letter - THEY STILL CAN.
They are not actively looking to sue anyone and everyone who makes a fan film; and if you don't follow the Guidlines it's not a guarantee that this means CBS will either be issuing you a C&D or filling a lawsuit.
If they hear about a fan production and feel it crosses a line in some aspect they feel will affect their profit from the IP; or their ability to market products based on the IP - and you made said fan production; you'll probably get sued.
But again: They (CBS) OWN the Star Trek IP. They can set up whatever rules they like as to how they will allow it to be used. 'Fairness' doesn't enter into the equation here at all. If you don't like the rules and conditions, don't attempt to get a license to market/produce something 'Star Trek' related.
Oh, look, someone with an ax to grind.
Let's not make snide comments about people's motivations that add little to the conversation. At best, it's a dismissal that's irrelevant to the conversation, and at worst it's an ad hominem attack meant to stifle the conversation.
Furthermore, let us not engage in false mind reading. For instance, I could claim that spelling the word axe as "ax" is deliberate because it's meant to invoke "Axanar", and the spelling of "axe" would preclude that association. I could claim that you want to associate anyone who disagrees with you with a particular camp that you oppose so that you feel justified in mocking and insulting them rather than engaging with them in a purely rational and constructive fashion. However, I have no right to assume that. It could simply be that "ax" is just the default way you spell the word.
Point is, getting unnecessarily personal is the difference between civil discourse and gossip.
Guidelines, folks, they are guidelines.
As in "follow these guidelines and we almost certainly won't sue you. If you don't follow these guidelines we MAY sue you, or seek some other legal remedy based solely on our own discretion."
It's not any more complicated than that.
As in "follow these guidelines and we almost certainly won't sue you. If you don't follow these guidelines we MAY sue you, or seek some other legal remedy based solely on our own discretion."
It's not any more complicated than that.
Sorry, what?
The post I quoted isn't itself conducive to conversation. It makes insinuations and unsupported allegations of the parties involved, CBS/Paramount and Star Trek Continues, accusing STC on the one hand of ignoring rules and C/P on the other hand of playing favorites. If CBS/Paramount are playing favorites, then it's not credible that what's happening is that Vic et al are simply flagrantly "ignoring" guidelines, not that that means that what's happening is that C/P are playing favorites.
My point is that is that it is a clear sign of bias to malign the parties involved with allegations of wrongdoing that are completely unsupported, especially when the allegations don't even make sense.
But anyway, if my posts bother you, just hit report on them instead of mini-modding them. K? Thnx.
This is just an "everybody's doing it" argument.
He doesn't say "rules" in what you quoted, so I assume you mean the Guidelines. Vic himself said in an interview, "We violate the Fan Film Guidelines in almost every way." Trek Continues released four episodes after the Guidelines were published. You can quibble about whether that constitutes "ignoring", but that's just debating semantics. Trek Continues clearly did not conform to the Guidelines.
I do understand that different fan films represent different situations that may be "apples and oranges", but it's easy to see how some people might perceive it as playing favorites when the guidelines are applied to some and not to others. In the end, failing to consistently enforce the Guidelines regardless of the situation opens CBS up to allegations of favoritism. That's just the nature of the approach they've chosen.
The two are not theoretically connected. Vic can, in theory, "ignore" the Guidelines while CBS can choose to give him special consideration at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. Now, I would argue that STC was perhaps a unique situation, and that Vic worked with CBS to avoid problems, but I can understand STEPhon IT's point of view, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.
I don't think you made that point in the first place, I don't think it's exactly clear that he's making a specific allegation of wrongdoing so much as calling it as he sees it, and while you can disagree with his logic, it's his logic that you should have been addressing in the first place.
Sorry, pal, no.
CBS never went into detail why Vic got a pass, so we don't really know why they didn't hit Vic with legal stuff. Vic's fantastic production value and having former Trek professionals running it behind the curtains and exploiting the franchises most popular characters and using CBS IP was a huge violation to the guidelines. There's nothing in the guidelines states a fan-production get a pass because one already had funding.
If the material is in good taste, CBS should leave them be. Fan films helps the property and it drives other would be filmmakers to buy costumes or make them and create their own Trek film. CBS can't sue everybody and I think it's in poor taste when they go after some but give the biggest violator of the guidelines a pass.
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Then it should be ignored or pull the 501(c)(3) status card and roll the dice.
