Warp 12

[Wingsley]

In the "14 Official Blueprints / STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE", the "refit" Starship Enterprise is rated as having a cruising speed of Warp factor 8 (her previous' iteration's emergency speed), and a top speed of Warp factor 12. This packet of blueprints also features the Klingon cruiser seen in TMP, now known as K'T'inga. K'T'inga's cruising speed is listed as Warp 6 and her top speed is Warp 10.

It has been said in the past, particularly through Richard Arnold, that Mr. Roddenberry disapproved of these "official" schematics. Yet the packet of plans bears Roddenberry's signature. (?) Roddenberry invented all sorts of rules in the early TNG years that were apparently designed to invalidate many assertions made in the 1970's and '80's TREK literature, including these blueprints and Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's works as well.

But where did the Warp speed specs come from? Who wrote them? What were they based on?

In "Elaan of Troyus", Spock tracked the attacking Klingon vessel, saying, at least once, "Their speed is better than Warp 6." and, during a strafing run, he announced they were "better than Warp 7". Since the Klingons were apparently employing somewhat different technology and their ship's maneuvers in the Tellun star system were designed to goad, intimidate and attack, it can be assumed that their Warp speed capabilities (and means of achieving them) would be different than that of a Federation counterpart. In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulans are manning Klingon vessels as well, and they try to pursue and attack the fleeing Enterprise at Warp 9. Presumably, as Enterprise and other Federation starships began encountering alien technologies and situations in the 2260s (such as Nomad and the Kelvans), the Constitution-class starships began pushing their performance envelopes beyond spec, and successfully so. We can assume that competing Federation and Klingon cruisers of 2270 were already pushing the Warp 10 barrier, and their new-generation ships were built to go beyond even that.

So who was responsible for the content of that 1979 blueprints?

In the book "The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture", Roddenberry and his secretary, Susan Sackett, asserted that the refit Enterprise had a cruising speed of Warp 7 and a top speed of Warp 9. Note that in TMP, canonically speaking, Enterprise never exceeds Warp 7. (Not so in the novelization of TMP, IIRC.) In the second movie, Enterprise never exceeds Warp 5. In the third movie, no speed is given. In the fourth movie, the Klingon scout's warp speed is off-the-scale because of the time travel slingshot around the Sun, so we don't know what specs it has. And the Enterprise-A never seems to exceed Warp 7 in her journey to the Galactic Core. Based strictly on canon, the refit Enterprise and Enterprise-A never seem to go above Warp 7. (Unless, the "new" Warp 7 is different from the TOS-era Warp 7, that is...)

There is also the loose implication from Kang's confrontation with the Excelsior that the K'T'inga is a more formidable starship, on par with the top-of-the-line Federation starships.

I have my own theories on how to make all of this jibe. And it doesn't involve the refit Enterrprise flying at Warp 12, or the Klingons at Warp 10.

Well, not exactly...

But fandom blueprints seemed to get in on the act, declaring that the Reliant's class of ship (originally called "Avenger") had a cruising speed of Warp 7 and a top speed of Warp 11. Somehow, this stuck in fan literature, and the Miranda-class and Knox and other variants are often given the same capability. Where did this assertion come from? Was it based on anything?

 

[Ithekro]

Warp 12. The speed it would take a starship going to Vulcan four days to reach if the Warp Factor system is still using the warp factor cubed, and planet Vulcan is in orbit of 40 Eridani (Keid System) which is basically 16 light years away from Earth.

Warp 12 using this logic would mean the starship is traveling at roughly 1,728 times the speed of light, and cover over 4 light years of distance a day.

 

[C.E. Evans]

People just made stuff up as they went along to fit whatever idea they were going with at the time. Giving the Constitution-refit Enterprise a cruising speed of Warp 8 and a max speed of Warp 12 was an attempt to show just how much more powerful its new engines were compared to the pre-refit ones, IMO. Being pre-TNG, it seemed like the only limitations to how fast a ship could go was power generation and/or structural endurance back then.

 

[Ithekro]

Enterprise managed to go up to Warp Factor 14.1 before they got the engines under control in "That Which Survives"

Enterprise is towed by Karla 5's ship what reaches Warp Factor 36 in "The Counter-Clock Incident".

 

[C.E. Evans]

The Enterprise was modified by the Kelvans to cruise at Warp 11 in "By Any Other Name," but they seemed to still be within the capability of the ship to (ultimately) endure.

The Warp 14.1 the Enterprise reached in "That Which Survives" was an act of sabotage that came dangerously close to destroying the ship. Earlier in that same episode, however, Warp 8.4 was questioned as a speed the ship could hold. When the Enterprise's engines later went into overload, Scotty made a statement that the ship really wasn't structurally built to maintain speeds of excess of Warp 11.2 for very long (which would be within the Warp 11 tolerance seen earlier in "By Any Other Name").

As far as the Enterprise being towed once at Warp 36 in TAS, we've seen ships being taken away by others at even substantially higher velocities in other Trek shows (the Enterprise-D in "Where No One Has Gone Before" and of course, the Voyager in "Caretaker").

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ When and why did Scotty remove the Kelvan modifications from the Enterprise' engines? It seems like the ship was running just fine with them installed, and COULD have for hundreds of years if they had done nothing at all. So do we know for sure that Scotty even bothered to remove them?

My thinking is, he never actually did, and Enterprise continued to operate with the Kelvan upgrades all the way through the rest of its five-year mission. This is why we see Enterprise running from three Romulan warships at Warp 9 when two seasons ago in "Arena" everyone thought Kirk was crazy for ordering Warp 8. Later in "Let that be Your Last Battlefield" Bele jams the throttle and has Enterprise racing towards Cheron at warp 10, a speed it apparently sustains for a considerable amount of time. Two episodes later, Warp 14.1, which is probably close to Enterprise's new Kelvan-modified maximum warp and also dangerously close to finally blowing up the engines.

I'm betting the Kelvan modifications were a huge part of the reasoning behind the Enterprise's redesign. Starfleet improved on the modified engine design: since double-digit warp factors are not usually used in combat situations, Starfleet installed these massive power transfer conduits that could dump the ship's newfound surplus of power into the weapons and shields. No longer does the Enterprise have to choose between warp drive and defenses (as was the case in "The Changeling"), it now has ample warp power for both, even in a pitched battle.

All in all, the TMP refit probably isn't that much faster than the Kelvan-modified TOS version, but now it's been redesigned and re-balanced to take full advantage of that high cruising velocity and probably has additional engine modifications that would allow for sprint speeds up to and beyond warp 15 before the strain becomes dangerous.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^ When and why did Scotty remove the Kelvan modifications from the Enterprise' engines? It seems like the ship was running just fine with them installed, and COULD have for hundreds of years if they had done nothing at all.

As I said earlier, Scotty said that the Enterprise could structurally bear at least Warp 11 in the later "That Which Survives."

The Enterprise may technically be able to cruise at Warp 11, but likely at the expense of other key systems. A lower maximum velocity like Warp 8 or Warp 9 may be preferred to maintain operational balance, with higher velocities reserved for extreme emergencies only.

 

[Retu]

I always thought the warp speed limitation was more to do with engines than the ship's structure itself. So while Enterprise's spaceframe could withstand speeds warp 11+, blowing your engines will definitely ruin your day. Even if the ship itself survives it, you're now stuck in the middle of nowhere without FTL-capability. And whatever you were chasing after / running away from has all the time in the world to do what it wants.

A real life comparison would be Russian MiG-25 interceptor. Its nominal maximum speed was Mach 2.8, but it could do Mach 3.2 in extreme emergency (as one was tracked flying over Sinai desert in the 70s). The thing was that the engines literally started self-destructing at speeds over 2.8: the turbine blades would overspeed and overheat and melt in the end. Also the fuel control had trouble regulating the flow at those speeds and it would cause the engines to runaway with pilot unable to do pretty much anything about it. The airframe itself was built like a tank and wouldn't have any problems at those kind of speeds.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think the idea of a starship being structurally unable to withstand certain velocities in TOS stems from a concept of it not exactly passing through a vacuum. Retroactively call it subspace field stress or merely dramatic necessity, apparently there's something that creates pressure on a ship's hull at high warp to support Scotty's claim of the Enterprise not being able to withstand speeds beyond Warp 11 for very long.

Another possibility, though, is that a ship's engines may explode if pushed beyond their safety limits and just take the rest of the ship with it (later Trek shows seem to avoid this by having ship engines automatically shut down if pushed too hard).

 

[Wingsley]

RE: the Kelvans' modifications to the Enterprise.

An alien race capable of modifying the Enterprise's engines to achieve at least Warp 11 and sustain it for 300 years, and also able to instantly transmute personnel into inanimate polyhedrons and back to living form again, should not have any problem quickly removing at least some of said engine modifications. Rojan may have turned control back over to Kirk, but Kirk was still in no position to stop Rojan from gutting the mods.

As for whatever may have been left over, Scotty probably had a field day analyzing the operating logs in Engineering's computers, and finding new ways to tweak his engines. Did the Kelvans' tampering result in the TMP refit, or at least offer the Federation a boost? Possibly.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ When and why did Scotty remove the Kelvan modifications from the Enterprise' engines? It seems like the ship was running just fine with them installed, and COULD have for hundreds of years if they had done nothing at all.

As I said earlier, Scotty said that the Enterprise could structurally bear at least Warp 11 in the later "That Which Survives."

But that comes AFTER the Kelvan modifications. I don't think Enterprise would have been capable of that before.

RE: the Kelvans' modifications to the Enterprise.

An alien race capable of modifying the Enterprise's engines to achieve at least Warp 11 and sustain it for 300 years, and also able to instantly transmute personnel into inanimate polyhedrons and back to living form again, should not have any problem quickly removing at least some of said engine modifications. Rojan may have turned control back over to Kirk, but Kirk was still in no position to stop Rojan from gutting the mods.

But WHY? Rojan doesn't exactly have a prime directive to consider. The mods don't actually cost him anything, and he could have just as easily left them in the Enterprise as a gesture of good faith towards the Federation.

As for whatever may have been left over, Scotty probably had a field day analyzing the operating logs in Engineering's computers, and finding new ways to tweak his engines. Did the Kelvans' tampering result in the TMP refit, or at least offer the Federation a boost? Possibly.

I tend to think the Kelvans were INVOLVED in the Enterprise refit, considering they were already familiar with the Enterprise and were at that point seeking the assistance of the Federation.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^ When and why did Scotty remove the Kelvan modifications from the Enterprise' engines? It seems like the ship was running just fine with them installed, and COULD have for hundreds of years if they had done nothing at all.

As I said earlier, Scotty said that the Enterprise could structurally bear at least Warp 11 in the later "That Which Survives."

But that comes AFTER the Kelvan modifications. I don't think Enterprise would have been capable of that before.

Scotty was talking about the structural limits of the Enterprise. Even before she left spacedock, it was probably determined that she could safely bear Warp 11 velocities during simulations.

The Kelvan modifications may have been the removal of some limiters and the rerouting of power from systems that would otherwise be required for the Enterprise's regular mission. As there was only talk of modifying the ship's existing engines rather than replacing them outright, it seems to suggest that Warp 11 was always possible for the Enterprise, but not preferred if it came at the expense of too many other mission-vital systems.

 

[Timo]

I rather doubt that a starship is built so that every component hits its limits at the same performance values. Something like the warp coils might be inherently capable of warp 782 as built (it actually being really costly to design something that would fail at warp 8 already!), and a warp core might be good for warp 15 or more for a brief while, but it would be way too expensive to design other parts of the power train to take that sort of strain so the warp 8 practical limit is imposed to minimize the risks. Warp 11 would certainly be doable - for the first three or so times. Kirk attempting it for a fourth time might court disaster, though, hence the warp 8 limit.

What the Kelvans really did, we don't know. But they did it with parts salvaged from one of their lifeboats, basically. We might surmise Rojan managed to bring along the lifeboat's "outboard motor", and then inefficiently hooked up that superior powerplant to the power train of the Federation "steam engine" for greatly improved endurance and reliability. Such extremely concentrated "modifications" that only involve hooking up one or two pieces of superior machinery sound doable, while an "alien overhaul" of Starfleet hardware for overall greater endurance sounds far from viable.

Rojan would also be rather unlikely to understand the utility of "goodwill", no matter how much he had been humanized at that point. He could well consider his superior powerplant highly proprietary, and would refuse to give Starfleet access to it. And simply refusing to hand over the keys (say, some personal code for activation) might render all efforts at reverse engineering futile.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crazy Eddie]

As I said earlier, Scotty said that the Enterprise could structurally bear at least Warp 11 in the later "That Which Survives."

But that comes AFTER the Kelvan modifications. I don't think Enterprise would have been capable of that before.

Scotty was talking about the structural limits of the Enterprise. Even before she left spacedock, it was probably determined that she could safely bear Warp 11 velocities during simulations.

The Kelvan modifications may have been the removal of some limiters and the rerouting of power from systems that would otherwise be required for the Enterprise's regular mission. As there was only talk of modifying the ship's existing engines rather than replacing them outright, it seems to suggest that Warp 11 was always possible for the Enterprise, but not preferred if it came at the expense of too many other mission-vital systems.

That would be inconsistent with the drama in "Arena" where the ship struggles to maintain warp 8 for any period of time, let alone accelerating to warp 9 to overtake the Gorn. In fairness, I don't specifically recall that really being an issue prior to "By any other name" but I have the impression that Enterprise struggled to even REACH speeds around warp 8 prior to that.

Rojan would also be rather unlikely to understand the utility of "goodwill", no matter how much he had been humanized at that point. He could well consider his superior powerplant highly proprietary, and would refuse to give Starfleet access to it. And simply refusing to hand over the keys (say, some personal code for activation) might render all efforts at reverse engineering futile.

Rojan understands the concept of persuasion, though. Letting Kirk keep the engine parts is a small gesture that he would probably trade for an additional favor or two.

Also, it's entirely possible that he simply FORGOT about the engine mods and didn't bother removing them. The technology probably wasn't that important to him if he salvaged it from old lifeboat parts.

 

[C.E. Evans]

But that comes AFTER the Kelvan modifications. I don't think Enterprise would have been capable of that before.

Scotty was talking about the structural limits of the Enterprise. Even before she left spacedock, it was probably determined that she could safely bear Warp 11 velocities during simulations.

The Kelvan modifications may have been the removal of some limiters and the rerouting of power from systems that would otherwise be required for the Enterprise's regular mission. As there was only talk of modifying the ship's existing engines rather than replacing them outright, it seems to suggest that Warp 11 was always possible for the Enterprise, but not preferred if it came at the expense of too many other mission-vital systems.

That would be inconsistent with the drama in "Arena" where the ship struggles to maintain warp 8 for any period of time, let alone accelerating to warp 9 to overtake the Gorn.

Not at all because it would still fit the scenario of the ship's engines and other systems not being reconfigured for Warp 11 back then even if its spaceframe was always structurally able to.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Scotty was talking about the structural limits of the Enterprise. Even before she left spacedock, it was probably determined that she could safely bear Warp 11 velocities during simulations.

The Kelvan modifications may have been the removal of some limiters and the rerouting of power from systems that would otherwise be required for the Enterprise's regular mission. As there was only talk of modifying the ship's existing engines rather than replacing them outright, it seems to suggest that Warp 11 was always possible for the Enterprise, but not preferred if it came at the expense of too many other mission-vital systems.

That would be inconsistent with the drama in "Arena" where the ship struggles to maintain warp 8 for any period of time, let alone accelerating to warp 9 to overtake the Gorn.

Not at all because it would still fit the scenario of the ship's engines and other systems not being reconfigured for Warp 11 back then even if its spaceframe was always structurally able to.

I think "configured" is too ambiguous in this context.

To be clear:

SPOCK: A sustained warp seven speed will be dangerous, Captain.
KIRK: Thank you, Mister Spock. I mean to catch them.
SCOTT: We'll either catch them or blow up, Captain. They may be faster than we are.
KIRK: They'll have to prove it.

Later:

KIRK: Report, Mister Sulu.
SULU: Alien ship maintaining interval, Captain. Now at warp seven.
KIRK: Warp factor eight.
SULU:
SCOTTY:

A little later in "Journey to Babel"
SPOCK: Interesting. They were travelling at approximately warp ten.
KIRK: Back on original course, Mister Chekov. Report on intruder's movements.
UHURA: Captain, Starfleet acknowledges report on our situation and confirms no authorised Federation vessel in this quadrant.
CHEKOV: Back on original heading, Captain. The intruder changed course immediately after we did. It's paralleling us again.
KIRK: Well, we have a shadow. Faster, more manoeuvrable and unidentified.

Implying that the intruder's warp 10 is a velocity the Enterprise cannot actually match.

And Friday's Child:
SCOTT: We're turning back. Warp 5, Helm.
SULU: Warp five, sir. On course for Capella Four.
SCOTT: Warp 6 as soon as she'll take it, Mister Sulu. The captain could be in trouble back there.

And Obsession:
SCOTT: Captain, we can't maintain warp eight speed much longer. Pressures are approaching the critical point.

Later:

SCOTT: Captain, we can't do it. If we keep this speed, we'll blow up any minute now.
SPOCK:
CHEKOV:
KIRK: Go to warp six.

Nomad does something similar to this, but undoes it shortly thereafter:
ENGINEER: Warp eight, Mister Scott, and increasing.
SCOTT: Throw your dampers.
ENGINEER: Warp nine.
SCOTT: Cut your circuits, all of them.
ENGINEER: Warp 10, Mister Scott.
SCOTT: Impossible. It can't go that fast.
ENGINEER: It just won't stop, Mister Scott. Warp eleven!
KIRK: Nomad, stop what you're doing. Scotty?
NOMAD: Is there a problem, Creator? I have increased engine efficiency fifty seven percent.
KIRK: You will destroy my ship. Its structure cannot stand the stress of that much power. Turn off your repair operation.

All of which suggests that at this point in time, Enterprise's maximum cruising speed was about Warp 6. Warp 7 would put a strain on the engines but was dooable, and Warp 8 was "FULL POWAA, DAMN YOU!"

Then the Kelvans make their modifications and suddenly "Warp 11" isn't a problem; thereafter, warp 8 is never a problem either and Enterprise ROUTINELY exceeds those velocities by a huge margin without blowing up. This tells me the Kelvan modifications both increase the maximum output of the engines and also decrease the stresses those velocities put on the hull.

It seems obvious what happened. The Kelvan modifications were never removed. And if you think about subsequent episodes, Starfleet seems to have noticed this: they hook the M5 computer up to the Enterprise, knowing its the only ship in the fleet that has power to spare for this insanely overclocked computer; they send Enterprise to the neutral zone to steal a cloaking device, knowing its the only ship in the fleet that can outrun the new Romulan warbirds. The only factor seems to be that the Enterprise crew do not REALLY know anymore how fast the Enterprise can go; they know the modifications are still in, and they know it can handle at least a sustained warp 8 and bursts of warp 9, but they've never really opened her up to see what she can really do.

 

[C.E. Evans]

That would be inconsistent with the drama in "Arena" where the ship struggles to maintain warp 8 for any period of time, let alone accelerating to warp 9 to overtake the Gorn.

Not at all because it would still fit the scenario of the ship's engines and other systems not being reconfigured for Warp 11 back then even if its spaceframe was always structurally able to.

I think "configured" is too ambiguous in this context.

It's really very simple, really. The ship had be to structurally strong enough from the start to keep from being flown apart at Warp 11, even if its engines was rated for lower velocities. It's about the strength of the ship's spaceframe, not the power of its engines. It doesn't matter what modifications the Kelvans made to the ship's engines if the vessel was going to come apart past Warp 8 or so. Again, it's about structural strength, not power generation.

 

[Ithekro]

To take a page from the 24th century, they improved the Structural Integrity Fields on the old Enterprise so she could take that kind of power. So that, like the later USS Defiant, she wouldn't rattle herself apart at full power.

The refit altered the structure to make her capable of higher warp speeds given they gave her a new engine.

 

[Timo]

I wonder how SIFs work. If you just pump more power into it, does the ship become stronger? Moreover, does the system itself become stronger, so that a Galaxy warp core hooked up to a shuttlecraft SIF would make the shuttlecraft invulnerable to everything (including the strain of hauling along a Galaxy warp core)?

Anyway, improving structural integrity fields is what the Corps of Engineers books suggested the Kelvans were doing, in addition to providing a compact power source that lasts forever.

But is Kirk's ship really doing better later in the show? The situations where the heroes balk at speeds of warp 8 or higher involve prolonged chases or trips from A to B. The later situations where higher speeds are okay involve short hops that are necessary to save the day. Those ought to be completely different matters: it's okay to have your car engine do 9,000 rpm for a brief moment to deal with a dangerous overtaking, even when going past 2,500 is what the manuals say will result in irreversible damage, and what your passengers say is resulting in an awful lot of noise and smoke.

A short burst of warp 9 helps the heroes escape Romulans ("The Enterprise Incident"). A longer burst of warp 9 still later on kills the ship, though, resulting in the longest episode of Star Trek ever ("Paradise Syndrome"). So nothing really changed.

(Okay, if you want to talk stardates, those episodes take place in reversed order. But both still postdate the Kelvan mods.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

That it is there does not mean they fully understand it yet. It is extragalactic alien technology to them and the science of it might not be in Scott's list of things the engine can and cannot do. Spock may still be working out all the calculations for how it works and how to manipulated to for a wider tolerance than just Warp 11 in intergalactic space.

The refit could have been the practical application of all these new technologies the various starships encountered on their recent Five Year Missions, incorporated into the existing space frames as best they could while getting the maximum benefits of the new technologies. If the Enterprise's new engines can sustain warp 12, that would be something even over the Kelvan's warp 11.

But the use of Warp 12 in the guide books and model sheets was again likely based on the math needed to get Enterprise to Vulcan in four days as suggested by Mr. Scott at the end of TMP. This would be based on the then generally accepted notion that a warp speed was the Warp Factor cubed equals their speed in terms of times the speed of light. And given the estimation that Vulcan was just over 16 light years from Earth.

In retrospect that is slow given Scott's tone seems to suggest it would take them a few days to give Enterprise a proper shakedown, then they could go to Vulcan. Mr. Scott sounds apologetic more than boastful as you might expect an engineer who is proud of the speed of his engines. He will try to get the shakedown done as quickly as possible so they can get Mr. Spock home in at most four days.