• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Rebooting Star Trek as Educational hard Sci-fi?

Timelord79 (he/him)

Vice Admiral
Admiral
If we ever get a new Trek show, I think they need to do something new, that hasn't been done before.
And then it needs to do something that hasn't really been done since the original show as well: sparking the imaginatition and people's interest in space exploration.

Could a hard sci-fi route be the way to achieve that?

get a couple of scientific advisors on the show to make sure, that it deals with real phenomenon only.
When the Enterprise encounters new planets, stars, black holes, they make sure that the science is actually accurate to the best of our current knowledge with the surrounding drama making it wondrous and impressiv as it really is for cosmologists, physicists and biologists, etc.

Some concessions have to be made to keep some trek staples intact, like Warp Drive, but adapting it as closely as they can to real world science.
What would it look like to a person traveling at warp when spacetime around him is strechted and bend?
Being out of communication with far away places and bases.

Aliens would be a little rarer and not just people with funny foreheads and certainly not biological compatible to produce offspring.

It could be a dramatized version of Cosmos and Neil DeGrass Tyson plays the Captain! (ok, kidding with that last one.) ;)
 
pVMrfaE.png
Pass.
 
I'm sure there would be a number of people who would enjoy that, but personally I'd find it a bit dull. The way I view sci-fi is that some of it is scientific fiction, and some is fictional science. And Star Trek has always leaned more towards the latter.
 
If we ever get a new Trek show, I think they need to do something new, that hasn't been done before.
And then it needs to do something that hasn't really been done since the original show as well: sparking the imaginatition and people's interest in space exploration.

Could a hard sci-fi route be the way to achieve that?

get a couple of scientific advisors on the show to make sure, that it deals with real phenomenon only.
When the Enterprise encounters new planets, stars, black holes, they make sure that the science is actually accurate to the best of our current knowledge with the surrounding drama making it wondrous and impressiv as it really is for cosmologists, physicists and biologists, etc.

Some concessions have to be made to keep some trek staples intact, like Warp Drive, but adapting it as closely as they can to real world science.

Actually this is pretty much what Roddenberry always wanted ST to be. At the time it came along, hardly any screen SF had ever aspired for realism or educational content, the exceptions being the film Destination Moon, the '50s children's series Tom Corbett: Space Cadet, and a few early seasons of Doctor Who (more or less; that series was originally conceived as an educational show for children, and the Cybermen's co-creator Kit Pedler was brought onboard specifically to be a science consultant and bring more realism to the show). Most SFTV was pretty much pure fantasy. But Roddenberry wanted to make a show that was as naturalistic and believable as any cop show or adult Western, so he consulted with scientists and engineers and think tanks and tried to create as plausible a future as he could, allowing for the concessions he had to make for budgetary and dramatic reasons. He didn't entirely succeed at making it believable, any more than Doctor Who's early producers did, but it was the goal he aspired to.

Later on, in TMP, he consulted with Isaac Asimov, NASA propulsion engineer Dr. Jesco von Puttkamer, and astronaut Rusty Schweickart to try to maintain realism, and on TNG, he relied on Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda to bring scientific veracity to the show. There was some really good science in the early seasons of TNG. The periodic nova portrayed in "Evolution" is such a good portrayal of a real phenomenon that you could practically use it in a science class. The "Kerr loop of superstring material" as the source of the time warp in "Yesterday's Enterprise" is, aside from the mistaken use of "superstring" to mean "cosmic string," based in a very real theoretical model for a time warp.

And Trek was the first mass-media franchise to popularize concepts that until then had only been explored in prose. TMP featured the concept of wormholes, which at the time was pretty obscure both in fiction and real science until Kip Thorne revitalized the field with his research for Carl Sagan's novel Contact; and TNG's "The Price" was one of the first mass-media works to pick up on the wormhole concept after Contact came out. And "Evolution," again, was one of the first depictions of nanotechnology in mass-media SF.

So don't listen to those people who say that Trek has always tended more toward fantasy. That's the way most of Roddenberry's successors have approached it, in the same way that Doctor Who's later producers abandoned its early educational aspirations and turned it into pure fantasy, but that's losing sight of Roddenberry's original intentions in creating the show.

Personally I'd love to see Trek -- or anything -- approached the way you suggest. Science fiction can be a marvelous vehicle for science education, a way to get people excited about the possibilities of the universe without misleading them about how it works. I've always felt it was a wasted opportunity not to make science fiction educational.

And frankly, real science is so much more interesting. Sci-fi that ignores real science is very limited, because it just keeps rehashing the same old tropes that were used in older sci-fi. Real science keeps revealing new possibilities that nobody ever imagined before, and they can generate amazing new story possibilities. For instance, real science is now telling us that worlds like Jupiter's moon Europa and Saturn's moon Enceladus, or maybe even Pluto, could have oceans of liquid water deep beneath their crusts of ice and that there could be life existing in those depths. That is a far more wild and fascinating possibility than anything from Lost in Space or Star Wars or anything like that.

It's a mistake to think that using real science limits the imagination or creativity of science fiction. It actually expands it, because creativity needs material to build on. Yes, imagination is still vital, but adding more real ideas for the imagination to work on is like adding more colors to an artist's palette. TNG was innovative because it took real-science ideas like nanotech and wormholes and cosmic strings and exposed them to a mass audience for the first time. It expanded the range of things that stories could be told about. Later Trek just made up random names for particles and energy fields of the week, and was thus much more limited in its range of ideas.
 
I will say that during the end credits for SeaQuest DSV, I did like the science factoid that kind of...sort of...in a small way related to part of the plot. So maybe something like that would be cool? Although these days they use the credits as an opportunity to show another promo, so it wouldn't work.
 
Considering the mention of SeaQuest DSV, I think something similar could be applied to Trek. It could become a sort of trade mark, or a sort of signature for a new Trek series. People could watch or ignore the end credits as they please.
 
In other forums it has been suggested that much of the magic tech be dropped, such as transporters, holodecks, and replicators. It has been commented that these may offer an easy solution to the characters problems, requiring the writers to come up with reasons why these aren't working in that particular episode.

Dropping these would be more along the lines of a re-imagining, such as nuBSG, than a simple reboot.
 
I will say that during the end credits for SeaQuest DSV, I did like the science factoid that kind of...sort of...in a small way related to part of the plot. So maybe something like that would be cool?

The first season of SeaQuest was a rare, refreshing attempt to do a scientifically literate and plausible SF show, at least until they started bringing psychics and aliens into it late in the season. So of course the producers said it wasn't actually science fiction at all, but was instead a plausible extrapolation of real science -- even though that's exactly what science fiction is, as you can tell by the first 50 percent of the name. And then in season 2 they said "Okay, now we're going to start doing science fiction," and that meant abandoning the science altogether and reducing it to idiotic Irwin Allen-style fantasy. The general public just does not understand what science fiction is, because they don't read books and only know the more fanciful stuff that usually passes for SF in the mass media.
 
I'd be cool with the writers using real science stuff to add verisimilitude and believability to the Trek world, as long as they avoid technobabble vomit and deus ex asspullius.

HOWEVER.

Don't let it take over the show. A lot of scifi novels that are revered by scifi fans (myself included) involve tedious world-building/science jargon exposition dumps. And that's just as bad as meaningless babytalk technobabble.
 
I agree with Jitty. Its fine for verisimilitude so long as you keep it in the background.

If science/technology comes to the fore, it should be because it is vital to telling a good story. Otherwise, you might as well make the show a straight forward educational program, and skip the fiction.
 
I agree with Jitty. Its fine for verisimilitude so long as you keep it in the background.

If science/technology comes to the fore, it should be because it is vital to telling a good story.

Sure, but you can say exactly the same about bad science and technobabble. Look at all the TNG and VGR episodes whose climaxes just came down to the crew figuring out how to technobabble the whoozywhatsis field in order to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow. It's not an issue unique to good science. Good science is not the problem, because the problem exists just as much with bad science -- and it's a worse problem in that case, because the viewers don't learn anything and may even be misled into believing a falsehood (see: all the people who actually believe that we only use 10 percent of our brains).

There is simply no reason you can't tell a good story that's primarily driven by story and character and also slips some good, well-researched science into the background. Think about it -- there are tons of movies and shows that put a lot of research and care into background details about other stuff, like inventing whole alien or fantasy languages that follow real linguistic rules, doing meticulous research on authentic costumes and products in period stories, even -- in the case of James Cameron's Titanic -- making sure the correct starscape was in the night sky. It doesn't intrude. It doesn't damage the storytelling. On the contrary, it helps lend verisimilitude, even if it's in a subtle way that most viewers won't even notice. So the same should be true of getting the science right. But for some reason, most filmmakers don't even bother, and just make up totally stupid nonsense. They'll go to incredible lengths to make sure every insignia on a soldier's uniform is perfect and his boots are polished just right, but if that soldier is fighting aliens, they'll just make up whatever random gibberish they feel like. It's a frustrating double standard, and there's no reason for it, because good science does not hurt a production. I can't think of a single instance where it has done so -- mainly because so few people in Hollywood have ever bothered to try. And movies that do have good science are movies like 2001, 2010, Contact, Gattaca, Primer, Moon, Ender's Game (mostly), Gravity, Europa Report -- really, do any of those fail to be good stories because of the science? If anything, aren't they all considered to be among the better movies out there? So whence comes this fear that having good science will hurt a story? Where are the examples of that?


Otherwise, you might as well make the show a straight forward educational program, and skip the fiction.

Which actually sounds like a good thing to me. We've had a new Cosmos, and it went over very well. Let's do more. Let's get over this notion that "educational" is a dirty word.

Heck, why not do both in tandem? Do an SF drama series set in a plausible universe, touching on scientific ideas to the degree that they support the plot and characterization; then do a nonfiction companion series, airing an hour or a day later, that follows up on the ideas from the episode in more detail, using the same level of special effects to give it dazzle, and maybe using members of the drama's cast as presenters or guests.
 
I will say that during the end credits for SeaQuest DSV, I did like the science factoid that kind of...sort of...in a small way related to part of the plot. So maybe something like that would be cool?

The first season of SeaQuest was a rare, refreshing attempt to do a scientifically literate and plausible SF show, at least until they started bringing psychics and aliens into it late in the season. So of course the producers said it wasn't actually science fiction at all, but was instead a plausible extrapolation of real science -- even though that's exactly what science fiction is, as you can tell by the first 50 percent of the name. And then in season 2 they said "Okay, now we're going to start doing science fiction," and that meant abandoning the science altogether and reducing it to idiotic Irwin Allen-style fantasy. The general public just does not understand what science fiction is, because they don't read books and only know the more fanciful stuff that usually passes for SF in the mass media.

Yep. It's so frustrating. S1 was so great. Too bad.
 
^Except you said "Don't let it take over the show" as if there were some risk that it could undermine the storytelling. I don't understand the perception that such a risk would exist, because I'm not aware of any precedent for that. Granted, there are novels that feature a lot of worldbuilding, because they're written for a niche audience that enjoys such things, but I can't think of any examples of screen productions where that's been the case. Unless you count something like Destination Moon, which was largely a dramatized lecture about the engineering, physics, and national-security importance of space travel; but that came out in a time when audiences were more tolerant of long exposition dumps in their movies (cf. all the '50s monster movies that featured scenes of scientists showing documentary footage of the real animals that the mutant monsters were descended from).
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top