Well then there was the Prometheus Class in Voyager, that didnt look like a research vessel. It seemed to be a warship to me. So I would think yes they would have too. If you have purely scientific vessels such as the Oberth clas it stands to reason the woul dhave picket and border patrols ships and starships just geared to defense.
So do you believe the Connie was a warship first and a ship of exploration second? That's an interesting take. Do you believe that there were other warships like those I specified built? While I was referring to previous eras, I have to say it's hard to imagine the Prometheus being used for anything other than battle. It does seem to lend support to previous eras having dedicated warships. It's okay.
I believe that when the Constitution class was designed Starfleet was in a war-time posture. Whether it was a conflict with the Klingons or someone else... who knows. The capacity to obliterate the surface of a planet doesn't happen by accident. So I would think that a lot of resources went into designing and building ships that could hold their own. Any ships that were spun off of Constitution development were probably attempts to improve on the design (upgrade power).
40+ years of games and fanfics aside, I've always kind of maintained that Starfleet considered all starships to be multipurpose vessels, not just warships--but they definitely could serve as warships when necessary. I think the Defiant-class was Starfleet's first dedicated warship design meant solely for combat and very little else, IMO...
Until very recently in the Trekverse timeline, Starfleet didn't build dedicated warships in the technical sense. Starfleet's primary mission was "to explore new worlds and new civilizations", so they built ships for that purpose. TOS was more militaristic, granted, but by Kirk's own admission during the credits, it was their on going mission to explore. Now in the less strict sense, there are definately ships that could be considered warships. Listed as such: 1: Constitution class. The fastest and most capable ship of it's time with the most advanced weaponry (photon torpedo's circa 2245.) 2: Excelsior class. In every way it was an advance of the Constitution, weapons included. 3: Akira class. 4: Definately the Galaxy class 5: Definately the Defiant class. 6: The intrepid class (more than capable in combat.) 7: Most certainly and defiantely the Sovereign class. 9: Nebula class depending on the configuration. 10: Definately the Prometheus class. Starfleet doens't like to play up that image, so the ships are disguised as "explorers" and such. But you could consider all those ships war able.
It's pretty clear from Wesley's cruiser force in "The Ultimate Computer" that Constitutions have a significant warship role, if not forming the main line of Federation defense. As I have pointed out when this subject has come up before, comparisons with real-world navies don't exactly work for Starfleet. Navies are built to deal with specific, known antagonists or security threats, but in Starfleet's world, the greatest threats often come out of the unknown. If you want to explore that kind of dangerous galaxy, it would make sense to use powerful, militarily capable vessels to do the exploring. So a substantial -- or total -- overlap between "war" and "peaceful exploration" vessels seems quite plausible, and the distinction may not be as meaningful in that world as it is in ours. --Justin
They build dedicated warships, then they build them up more to include science labs and other things. That's why Galaxy class is so huge. They couldn't have made her more powerful if they tried, at least not without vastly diminishing results. If they wanted to make a pure warship, it would be much smaller than current ships, sort of like Defiant and it would be mostly useless as is Oberth as a pure science ship
Good opinions and thoughts everyone. So, is it fair to say that everyone seems to agree: 1) Almost all Starfleet ships are designed to double as warships, with war not being their primary mission. 2) The Constitution class, and her contemporaries, were build with extra emphasis on combat capabilities due to the political situation of the era. 3) Dedicated Starfleet warships, in peacetime, would be almost as useless as science ships in wartime. I was thinking about evidence that dedicated Starfleet warships existed. As I see it: 1) FJ's 'dreadnought Entente' was mentioned in comm chatter from TMP that was cut from the DE. 2) FJ schematics including the Destroyer and Dreadnought were seen on screen in Treks I-III. 3) FJ's dreadnought and destroyer had approval from GR, and the only reason they were rejected was due to their personal falling out over money. Aside from anecdotal evidence ('Starfleet doesn't build warships') what is the best evidence, both on screen and behind the scenes, against dedicated warships existing in the 22nd and 23rd century Starfleet? Also, what do you think about Starfleet building dedicated warships during the Earth-Romulan War?
I think they built warships. Prometheus for starters, Definatly the Defiant, even "IF" starfleet refuses to call it what it is ( SF calls it a escourt insteed of a warship dont they?) I dont know how good a warship the Connie would be considering the very thin " Neck" I mean if I was in a battle with the Constitution class, That would be the first place I attack. And I would also place the SOVEREIGN class in the warship department.Oh! and the AKIRA class.
Although they can double up for scientific missions, The Constitution and Excelsior-class must have been considered primarily warships as in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country when they are discussing peace with the Klingons, one officer asks "are we talking about mothballing the fleet?"
I don't think the D was specifically a science/exploration ship, since in the episode where no one has gone before when Q hurled the thing billions of light years away picard mentions that they should send a dedicated science vessel to explore the region. To me it must mean that Starfleet build all-rounders than can be adapted to whatever threat is out there.
It's funny that you mention that. I was just thinking about it! I wonder what the Chief in Command Bill's full answer to that question would have been had Cartwright not cut him off...
Any vessel capable of fighting by itself would be a Warship. Therefore most of Starfleet are Warships. IMHO.
I prefer to class vessels as 'War-Ready' ships, rather than 'war ships' which implies that it is it's specific and only purpose.
Dedicated warships: --The Defiant class. In peace time either they refit them to be more capable, like the Nova was refitted, mothball them, or use them as patrol ships with starbase support. I think they'd refit a little and use them as patrol ships. --The Prometheus class. This seems to be a direct response to the Dominion threat, and from what I saw in the episode "message in a bottle", it's pretty much a ship built for combat. So in peace time, I think they'd refit them to standard starfleet specs, which would make them like the beefed up brother to the Intrepid class (they both have the same decks, the Prometheus is a little larger). they'd have longer mission durations, better combat capability, and equal scientific capability. The ultimate intrepid class. Those are the only two dedicated warships I can think of. The Sovereign comes close considering it's combat bias, but it is also designed as a diplomatic ship, scientific ship, etc. We haven't really seen it's scientific aplications so much but they are there.
When you venture into the unknown you better be able to protect yourself. It goes hand in hand as witnessed when meeting up with Klingons, Romulans, etc...
The Enterprise NCC-1701 and fellow Connies are Heavy Cruisers. In essence they are warships. Their purpose is to respond to combat situations. While not at war, their purpose is to show that the Federation can defend itself and to assist in its peaceful endeavours. Naval battleships were warships that served multiple other purposes, not simply limited to combat.
I voted they definitely did. The Enterprise NCC-1701 was a warship. For that matter, so were the A, B, C, D, and E. Every starship we see is a warship (with the obvious exception of the Oberth-class; but even the Olympic-class from AGT has a vital wartime role). The difference between the warships and the Enterprises, the Excelsior, the Reliant, the other ships seen on exploration missions... is entirely that the latter are on exploration missions. Starfleet dedicates the fraction of the ships that we see to exploration (and diplomatic) duty, because exploration (and diplomacy) is more interesting (in peacetime) than defense duty. However, the other few thousand ships are likely kept on defense duty. We don't often see or hear about them, because they're sitting in orbit above a core world or patrolling a neutral/demilitarized zone... and these are not bound to provide thrilling stories. When something interesting does happen, the Enterprise suddenly gets assigned to a task force sent to the Cardassian border, under some jerk captain that makes his crew wear pants.
And for that reason, the U.S. Navy is ridiculously over-priced and laughably inefficient. Most of its hardware was designed to fight a war that will never happen against an enemy that no longer exists using weapons that are already obsolete using tactics that have never been tested in the theatre. I don't see the Federation as possessing some kind of self-serving notoriously corrupt military industrial complex. Actually, I believe the move away from dedicated warships (and the controversy around the Defiant project, for that matter) is a reaction to precisely this kind of development. Follow this fictional history: for fifty years, Starfleet built up more and more overtly military hardware to deal with the threat of the Klingon Empire. The Klingons, for their part, built up their military the same way. Then Praxis exploded and the Klingons realized they had spent so much money on their military that they couldn't deal with a simple natural disaster properly (coughHurricaneKatrinacough) and they needed to reorganize. This meant the end of hostilities with the Klingons, and it suddenly left Starfleet holding a bill for a huge and expensive battle fleet that it would never have a chance to use. In TUC, we have assholes like Admiral Cartwright and such who understand that the organization they created is about to be gutted because its principal mission--fighting the Klingons--has ceased to exist. Even Valeris describes her actions as "saving Starfleet," as if the Klingon threat is Starfleet's only reason to exist! (the Federation seemed to be on surprisingly good terms with the Romulans at the time...). We don't know what happened after TUC, but in TNG we get a hint that there was some trouble with the Romulans, more tension with the Klingons and later some skirmishes with the Cardassians... none of which approached the scale and intensity of the 23rd century cold war. We can infer from this that within the Klingon Empire some type of cultural revolution occurred, probably a revolt by Khaless fundamentalists seeking to return the Empire to the "true war of the warrior" or some crap like that. This fundamentally changed the political landscape of the High Council, paving the way for a more feudal type of government where the high council retained no real power except the ability to organize the many houses and the ships they controlled to make war against their enemies. From this point on, then, Klingons only fight for personal reasons, with (until Gowron) none of the grand political power plays for the "Glory of the Empire." With this power dynamic--and since Cartwright's people fail to start the war that had taken over their reason for being--Starfleet had to reinvent itself in order to remain relevant. First, the lack of a mutual enemy lead to the Romulans dusting off their old rivalries, and since the Romulans rarely come out in force, a greater emphasis was put on counterintelligence and electronic warfare (with the main computer completely taking over ship's communications on most vessels). Second, Starfleet either absorbed or subcontrated with the United Earth Space Probe Agency and other scientific organizations from other planets (the Vulcan Science Ministry, for example, and a few others) to become the go-to boys for any and all scientific/industrial/diplomatic operations in Federation space, and they got so good at it that pretty soon they were the only show in town. After a few decades of this, Starfleet has so thoroughly revamped itself (even gotten snazzy new uniforms that look more astronauty than navy) that it is no longer unusual for starships to have the family members of their crews on board; it has gone from a military organization to a scientific merchant marine--a "scientist marine" if you will--whose combat role is on an "as needed" basis.