Why no carol marcus(Bibi Besch) in STIII

[Haggis and tatties]

Was there any reason that the character of Carol Marcus just disappeared totally from STIII, i was just watching 2/3 last night and it just dawned on me that the charactor was just gone in STIII, even in the Genesis device video she was replaced by Kirk......any reason why, anybody know any reason why, or is it just on of those things.

 

[Gepard]

I assume they didn't want to pay the actress for the rights to use her image from the first film, so they reshot the Genesis Demo tape with Shatner.

*shrug* Just a guess.

 

[Jon1701]

I suppose, story wise - there just wasn't the room. It would detract from Kirk's loss certainly. Carol has known David all his life, where Kirk has just met him.

I'm not sure if she was ever in or not, but where would you put her? On Genesis with Saavik and David?

I suspect they just dropped her in the story process the same way they dropped Saavik in TVH. The movie didn't need her.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm not sure if she was ever in or not, but where would you put her? On Genesis with Saavik and David?

I once read a Harve Bennett interview where he mentioned hearing from Bibi Besch, who was, at first, a little hurt she wasn't called back for ST III. He explained that, in the yin and yang of the script's balancing act, the return of Spock had to be offset by Kirk losing first David, and then Enterprise.

Thus, Bennett explained, as David was being revealed to have "cheated" with the protomatter, the question would be raised, "Did Carol know, too?" If she was on the planet with David and Saavik, she'd be as doomed as David. And if she stayed on the Grissom, she be dead at the hands of the orbiting Klingons.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Was there any reason that the character of Carol Marcus just disappeared totally from STIII, i was just watching 2/3 last night and it just dawned on me that the charactor was just gone in STIII, even in the Genesis device video she was replaced by Kirk......any reason why, anybody know any reason why, or is it just on of those things.

There is one thing I noticed about the Genesis video...It was updated to reflect the detonation of the Genesis device.

 

[SmoothieX]

I always wondered why she wasn't in it either. But I don't know how they could have worked her into it in its current form.

Would she be on the Enterprise? On Grissom? On the planet? Back at Regula 1?

I'm trying to think of how they could work her in and I can't.

 

[Brian]

Was there any reason that the character of Carol Marcus just disappeared totally from STIII, i was just watching 2/3 last night and it just dawned on me that the charactor was just gone in STIII, even in the Genesis device video she was replaced by Kirk......any reason why, anybody know any reason why, or is it just on of those things.

There is one thing I noticed about the Genesis video...It was updated to reflect the detonation of the Genesis device.

I had always assumed it was Kirk and not Marcus, because the video being watched was Kirk's report to Starfleet Command and the Federation Council about what happened in the Mutara Sector. What Kirk showed Spock and McCoy was Carol's original proposal, from which he lifted elements for his report.

As to why she wasn't in the film... Did she need to be? I never thought so.

 

[ClayinCA]

I never really thought it was so much that it was odd that she wasn't in the film as that there was nothing to explain where she went. Even that didn't bother me overmuch, however. I just figured she went back to Regula to help pick up the pieces or something.

 

[Prydonian]

I never really thought it was so much that it was odd that she wasn't in the film as that there was nothing to explain where she went. Even that didn't bother me overmuch, however. I just figured she went back to Regula to help pick up the pieces or something.

It's been years since I read it, but in the tie-in novelization I think she ends up on the Deltan homeworld and meets up with the family of one of her dead research colleagues. Whether this was based on some early draft of the script or was purely of the novelist's own invention, I don't know. Is my recollection faulty?

 

[Paulcpick]

It seems to me since the whole known universe seemed to be in an uproar over Genises, that she would be on Earth fighting for it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It's been years since I read it, but in the tie-in novelization I think she ends up on the Deltan homeworld and meets up with the family of one of her dead research colleagues. Whether this was based on some early draft of the script or was purely of the novelist's own invention, I don't know. Is my recollection faulty?

As I said, Carol was never in the script, because Harve Bennett couldn't find a way to do it.

IIRC, the ST III novelization has Carol visit with the relatives of both March and Madison (one of whom Carol had been romantically attached).

In the ST IV novelization she travels to the family of Jedda (seen vaporised in ST II; described as Deltan in the script) and his female Deltan partner, Zinaida (added by her to the ST II novelization). Their two other bondmates were revealed as the female, Verai Dva-Payjh, and male Kirim Dreii-Dall (who is described as having fine, rose-coloured hair down to his knees, in an attempt to explain why Jedda ended up with hair in the film of ST II; McIntyre would have been assuming Jedda would be bald in ST II).

 

[Tiberius Jim]

I've always thought there could have been a quick scene of Kirk saying goodbye to her as they parted ways at Spacedock, or a throwaway line referring to such a scene.

 

[SmoothieX]

I suppose she could have been on Grissom for the initial scans of the planet from orbit. Have a few lines, then Saavik and David beam down, Carol dies when the ship is destroyed. That would have been plausible and fit the rest of the film as is.

Or if they had gone in a different direction, she could have been the one to explain to Starfleet or the crew they had fudged the design by using protomatter and that it was her fault. She could have died in some way redeeming herself for it.

I always wondered if she new about the protomatter or if Dave just snuck that in.

 

[RobertVA]

Was there any reason that the character of Carol Marcus just disappeared totally from STIII, i was just watching 2/3 last night and it just dawned on me that the charactor was just gone in STIII, even in the Genesis device video she was replaced by Kirk......any reason why, anybody know any reason why, or is it just on of those things.

Because if you include every character from prior films in sequels it doesn't take long before you've got so many performers walking across the scenes there's no time or budget for a real plot.

 

[torius22]

i always reasoned that it kirk remade the report to protect carol from anyone who wanted to harm her . that way , anyone needing information on it would come looking for him assuming that he was the one in charge and would leave her alone . but that is just my theory

 

[Peach Wookiee]

That's possible as well, torius22.

 

[JoeD80]

I suspect they just dropped her in the story process the same way they dropped Saavik in TVH. The movie didn't need her.

Um Saavik was in TVH. In the beginning of the movie. She stays on Vulcan.

 

[Timo]

But she was removed from the actual events of the movie for reasons not really given (esp. with the references to her being pregnant with Spock's child erased).

i always reasoned that it kirk remade the report to protect carol from anyone who wanted to harm her.

Might be that Kirk made the report long before ST2. After all, while Carol Marcus was the scientist behind the project, Starfleet approval for it might have come through James Kirk, who'd then have to have prepared a presentation for Starfleet on the subject. Kirk does seem to know all about Genesis and Carol's work before watching through Carol's briefing; he only plays that briefing for the benefit of Spock and McCoy. And Carol does seem to think that Jim would be the Starfleet guy she needs to contact on matters relating to Genesis.

OTOH, Kirk would have been expected to explain himself in the aftermath of ST2, and sending this briefing while physically remaining behind to mind his starship would be a natural thing for Kirk to do.

Where the Klingons got their Genesis material in the first place is unknown. Valkris might have stolen a set of tapes including the Marcus and Kirk versions of the briefing, and Kruge might have relayed it forward before he and his crew were killed and his ship confiscated (since Kamarag had material from Kruge to present in ST4, including visuals on the destruction of the Enterprise). Or then the Federation released such material as a gesture of goodwill (including tapes on the destruction, as taken from the memory banks of the confiscated BoP).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Have her die on Grissom so we can have this later line

Kirk: "You Klingon bastard...you killed my son...and my baby mama!"

 

[I am not Spock]

I've always loved the 'Genesis Trilogy' (TWOK, TSFS, TVH) and wouldn't change a thing, except for the removal of Carol Marcus from TSFS (that has always bugged me) and the writing out of Saavik in TVH. Although, really, I am having trouble thinking of a way Saavik could have fit into TVH's story in a logical way.