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While TMP does allow freedom of inference, there's still that one scene about "the oath"...

Qonundrum

Just graduated from Camp Ridiculous
Premium Member
So when Uhura informs the Captain that "She's Deltan", followed by the turbolift doors opening, Lt Ilia stepping out, and all the guys go googooeyes over her, Kirk mentions utmost confidence while describing Decker's multiple job functions, says "Same for you, Lt", then Ilia states how her oath of celibacy is on record... I know it's 1979 and disco and sexual revolution and all, but as easy as it was to get the gist of Spock's opening scene, as well as the demise of the Klingon ships, despite little English word spoken, this "celibacy" underpinning remains a larger mystery.

Now expanded media and documentaries and all do tell us that the Deltans are more sexually civilized than humans are and they don't, um, "fraternize" with anybody because Deltans are more advanced and won't do it with more primitive life forms, but all that's told later on.

But wouldn't this oath be for everybody, and more likely so, because of - in all probability - Kirk's antics? Keep in mind, in 79 episodes of TOS, which were repeated regularly, we saw Kirk going at it with any number of ladies across the galaxy - generally hinted at, but "Wink of an Eye" makes it more direct thanks to the commercial break leading into Kirk and Deela putting clothes back on and brushing hair and all. Did 5 years out of the captain's chair really change Kirk so much to become a stickler for the rules? Did he get promoted to Admiral but on the condition he stop banging every wriggling thing in the universe?! (Plus, it's 48 hours until VGer arrives to party and if the humans have sufficiently evolved to focus on an urgent issue despite distraction, so are the more superior Deltans. The scene just makes no sense, and they could show Tex Avery cartoon eyes popping out of everyone... or might do 50 years later, but TMP was made without any self-lampooning.)

So here it is: In the theater, in 1979, while general audiences were otherwise listening to any number of musical hits and you can guess what will follow by the end of this post to, uh, set the tone, so to speak, what were audiences thinking when seeing Ilia's introduction followed by her open-ended line? Should there have been a little more context and dialogue to confirm onscreen? Or is that the point, as with so many previous scenes, it's up to the audience to think it through despite telling just enough on screen to give it a form of sense? (even though this scene is about as vague and contextless as anything could get, as enough was given to Spock's scene beforehand, or mentions of it later on to fill in the blanks, but not for this one throwaway moment.)

And now it's Tangent Time: Some examples of contemporary, then-relevant pop culture goodness. Caution, much disco follows what with all this being part of the late-70s cultural zeitgeist (and penicillin!), but it helps demonstrate what Star Trek was up against and I'm still amazed the new Enterprise's big rec room didn't have a bunch of disco balls hanging and glittering from the top of the deck:


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(love the optimistic tone of the music... the lyrics definitely are of the time (60s/70s))

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(There's the main anthem right there, though I think the musical instruments used feel more timeless, it's a marvel how they did it)

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(Note some similar themes about that feeling from within... but, dang, those vocals really are timeless!)

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(Okay, what video system was used to generate those effects from these and other videos? It's a bit impressive given the technology of the era. 480i or not, that's all pretty slick. Plus, the 70s were more about individuality, so there was less line dancing and more people just acting incongruous while dancing...)

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(For no other reason than looking at the dancers on the floor spending more time looking for the camera out of sheer embarrassment/terror... I think one of them was in a video for "Let's Go Chant" as well, and I'm certain, what with it being 1978 and all, that "Chant" was as much a euphemism as "no sugar tonight" was in 1970... sheesh, is that the only thing songs are about, how to get or keep coital partners? I miss really music storytelling. I'm going back to Wall of Voodoo, Information Society, Devo, etc, for now, so there! :nyah:)
 
But wouldn't this oath be for everybody, and more likely so, because of - in all probability - Kirk's antics? Keep in mind, in 79 episodes of TOS, which were repeated regularly, we saw Kirk going at it with any number of ladies across the galaxy - generally hinted at, but "Wink of an Eye" makes it more direct thanks to the commercial break leading into Kirk and Deela putting clothes back on and brushing hair and all. Did 5 years out of the captain's chair really change Kirk so much to become a stickler for the rules? Did he get promoted to Admiral but on the condition he stop banging every wriggling thing in the universe?!
No. The oath is for Deltans, because Deltan sex is a bit too much for humans (and presumably others) to take without serious damage (emotional or perhaps physical).

The stereotype of Kirk “banging every wriggling thing in the universe” comes from overreaction to his having had relations a small number of times over the course of a series that takes place over several years — I.e. from being a fairly normal human being, not a sex fiend.

Disco really doesn’t come into it.
 
I love TMP but I hate that infamous “my oath of celibacy is on record” scene.

It’s so, sooo Roddenberry and demonstrates his unfortunate tendency to objectify women. And poor Ilia truly is objectified throughout—not least because she literally becomes an object (ie, the probe).

The whole idea that Ilia and the Deltans are such turbo-charged sex fiends that they pose a danger to humans is, frankly, more than I ever wanted to know about Roddenberry’s sex fantasies. It’s a wonder that line never got cut because it’s kind of embarrassing and adds nothing to the story or the character. It’s only a short moment buts it’s very jarring.

It’s also, in my view, unprofessional and lacking in discretion for Kirk to bring that up in front of the entire bridge crew. To me, it’s demeaning and inappropriate in the context. If he truly was worried about Ilia endangering his crew with “death by Snu-Snu”, he ought to have maybe discussed it with her IN PRIVATE. But then, Kirk is being a bit of a dick all round at this point in the film.

What I hated most though was that creepy, leering grin Chekov gives her as she enters the bridge. I get that was probably in the script, but…sheesh. Have a little decorum, Pavel.

Of course, it’s all a hundred times worse in the novelisation, where Roddenberry describes Kirk getting a boner on the bridge and talks about “love instructors” and crew members having public sex all over the ship. What were they pumping into the ship’s air supply that got everyone so horny?

I also still think the shower scene is pretty bizarre all around. But that’s probably a topic in itself.
 
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It’s also, in my view, unprofessional and lacking in discretion for Kirk to bring that up in front of the entire bridge crew.
He doesn't. She does. And as I recall, Chekov's reaction was an involuntary one, a response to his first encounter with Deltan pheromones. And yes, Roddenberry was more than a little bit obsessed with (as someone I used to work with put it) "getting his pee-pee wet."
 
He doesn't. She does. And as I recall, Chekov's reaction was an involuntary one, a response to his first encounter with Deltan pheromones. And yes, Roddenberry was more than a little bit obsessed with (as someone I used to work with put it) "getting his pee-pee wet."

No, it’s Kirk that brings it up.

DECKER: Captain Kirk has the utmost confidence in me.

KIRK: And in you too, Lieutenant [Ilia].

ILIA: My oath of celibacy is on record Captain.

Her response makes it clear he’s referring to the Snu-Snu aspect and not the lieutenant in a general sense.

It’s just kinda skeevy. Meant to be hot but is just kind of invasive and embarrassing.

But that’s our Gene for you!
 
The other thing that makes the scene even weirder is that it is based on the idea of the Deltans that would have been explored in the Phase II series, but is never explained in TMP. So we have no context for anything. It's like a new officer just walks onto the bridge and announces she won't be having sex with anyone for no apparent reason.
 
That’s just it. The script doesn’t introduce the fact Deltans are super-hypersexual or whatever they were, so it really comes out of nowhere and seems extremely bizarre. A new officer just stepped onto the bridge, why are they suddenly talking about sex and oaths of celibacy?

How weird is a Starfleet mandated “oath of celibacy” anyway? How do they enforce it? Is there a special department that oversees this kind of thing?
 
How weird is a Starfleet mandated “oath of celibacy” anyway? How do they enforce it? Is there a special department that oversees this kind of thing?
No, it's just another piece of paperwork Ilia has to file out. And since she clearly has no problem with it, I don't see the big deal here.

Deltans are so into sex (it's part of literally every social interaction they have with each other) that, IMHO, it makes perfect sense to have some safeguards in place when dealing with their crewmates. Deltans aren't discriminated against or anything like that, they just have to log that one oath and then they're all good. :shrug:

As for why, specifically, Ilia felt the need to mention her oath, it's probably because she is clearly affecting the bridge's male crewmembers just by being there, so she must have felt obligated to tell everyone that she's taking all necessary precautions.
 
No, it's just another piece of paperwork Ilia has to file out. And since she clearly has no problem with it, I don't see the big deal here.

Deltans are so into sex (it's part of literally every social interaction they have with each other) that, IMHO, it makes perfect sense to have some safeguards in place when dealing with their crewmates. Deltans aren't discriminated against or anything like that, they just have to log that one oath and then they're all good. :shrug:

As for why, specifically, Ilia felt the need to mention her oath, it's probably because she is clearly affecting the bridge's male crewmembers just by being there, so she must have felt obligated to tell everyone that she's taking all necessary precautions.
Except that none of that is mentioned in the movie. At all. It all comes from the novelization and Roddenberry's puerile mind. The closest we get is Ilia teasing Decker about humanity being a "sexually immature species," but that's not even in the theatrical cut, just the extended cuts. So as the film was released, all we have is a new officer being introduced by announcing to everyone that she's not going to be having any sex with anybody. It's just super-strange.
 
I'm thinking that her hormones take away the agent for choice, so even if someone wanted to, it woudn't be clear and pure - hence her oath. Also explains Chekov's behavior, etc, to an extent, if he really couldn't help the response. No idea what the '79 audience would have thought, but its a holdover from establishing an ongoing aspect of her personality for the Phase 2 TV series.
 
I'm thinking that her hormones take away the agent for choice, so even if someone wanted to, it woudn't be clear and pure - hence her oath. Also explains Chekov's behavior, etc, to an extent, if he really couldn't help the response. No idea what the '79 audience would have thought, but its a holdover from establishing an ongoing aspect of her personality for the Phase 2 TV series.
That's plausible. My other take, based on what was written in the novel, is that pretty much all sex is casual sex for Deltans since they do it with everyone. But since humans, at least a significant portion of the time, attach deeper meaning and emotional connection to sex, it can lead to a lot of bruised feelings. Either way, though, none of this was even hinted at in the film, which is why I think the "oath of celibacy" line should have just been cut.
 
The line was clearly something that was meant to be addressed in an upcoming series. Makes me wonder what else was intended to be fleshed out in future episodes that they forgot to cut from the script. Ilia's entire relationship with Decker comes to mind.
 
No, it’s Kirk that brings it up.

DECKER: Captain Kirk has the utmost confidence in me.

KIRK: And in you too, Lieutenant [Ilia].

ILIA: My oath of celibacy is on record Captain.

Her response makes it clear he’s referring to the Snu-Snu aspect and not the lieutenant in a general sense.

It’s just kinda skeevy. Meant to be hot but is just kind of invasive and embarrassing.

But that’s our Gene for you!
No, I agree with @hbquikcomjamesl. Ilia brought it up. Kirk's line literally indicates confidence in Ilia in the same way he has confidence in Decker. Ilia's a replacement navigator. Kirk's saying he has confidence in her abilities as a navigator. Ilia misinterpreting it as a reference to Deltan sexuality is a ham-fisted attempt at humor. The even more ham-fisted cut scene with Sulu fumbling his controls was cut with good reason.
 
No, I agree with @hbquikcomjamesl. Ilia brought it up. Kirk's line literally indicates confidence in Ilia in the same way he has confidence in Decker. Ilia's a replacement navigator. Kirk's saying he has confidence in her abilities as a navigator. Ilia misinterpreting it as a reference to Deltan sexuality is a ham-fisted attempt at humor. The even more ham-fisted cut scene with Sulu fumbling his controls was cut with good reason.
Agreed. These are professionals in a work setting. For them to all start going googley-eyed and fumbling around because an attractive woman walks onto the bridge is completely ridiculous.
 
No. The oath is for Deltans, because Deltan sex is a bit too much for humans (and presumably others) to take without serious damage (emotional or perhaps physical).

That I agree with. Shame the movie doesn't put in the context for its theatrical release.

The stereotype of Kirk “banging every wriggling thing in the universe” comes from overreaction to his having had relations a small number of times over the course of a series that takes place over several years — I.e. from being a fairly normal human being, not a sex fiend.

True. But there's also behind-the-scenes and related content, some of which I've posted in the past, that ties into the arguably sex-crazed nature of the 1970s. Among other things.

Disco really doesn’t come into it.

Not in the 23rd century, no. In terms of what was put into the theatrical release (or not) and leaving it open to speculation, in tandem with pop culture of the time, then perhaps.
 
Agreed. These are professionals in a work setting. For them to all start going googley-eyed and fumbling around because an attractive woman walks onto the bridge is completely ridiculous.

^^this

He doesn't. She does. And as I recall, Chekov's reaction was an involuntary one, a response to his first encounter with Deltan pheromones. And yes, Roddenberry was more than a little bit obsessed with (as someone I used to work with put it) "getting his pee-pee wet."

^^this. There's a 1976 Star Trek audio album with content from Gene and others that's as single-meaning as anything could get. "Inside Star Trek" I think is the name and I'd posted links to YouTube channels hosting the good parts before.

No, I agree with @hbquikcomjamesl. Ilia brought it up. Kirk's line literally indicates confidence in Ilia in the same way he has confidence in Decker. Ilia's a replacement navigator. Kirk's saying he has confidence in her abilities as a navigator. Ilia misinterpreting it as a reference to Deltan sexuality is a ham-fisted attempt at humor. The even more ham-fisted cut scene with Sulu fumbling his controls was cut with good reason.

Ditto.

TMP definitely didn't need more scenes of crewmembers acting like cartoons with drooling tongues rolling out thirty feet with eyeballs popping out twelve inches as well. It feels very much of its time during the latter half of the sexual revolution.

Except that none of that is mentioned in the movie. At all. It all comes from the novelization and Roddenberry's puerile mind. The closest we get is Ilia teasing Decker about humanity being a "sexually immature species," but that's not even in the theatrical cut, just the extended cuts. So as the film was released, all we have is a new officer being introduced by announcing to everyone that she's not going to be having any sex with anybody. It's just super-strange.

^^this!

The movie was already long enough, and if there were deleted scenes explaining needed context, I've not found any. The most I did find, so far, is this:


Which has a link to a novel as well as this additional content:


The movie's novelization, where more flexibility is accorded, does go into a little more detail, but the editing for the theatrical cut definitely is a headscratcher. How that one contextless line remained remains somewhat interesting. Not as much of the character directly, but the behind-the-scenes as to who put it there and why. It's one of those weird instances where more context might render it less weird as a result, and if the novelization of the movie was released before the movie, how many had read it, then saw it, and either remembered the context or still felt bemused? The movie was released on December 7, and the novelization appeared in December 1979 (actual first day not yet found) - so chances are that both coincided.
 
It's been months, probably well over a year, since I last saw TMP, but I could have sworn that the Director's Cut includes material that at least begins to explain the significance of the celibacy oath. And there are plenty of outside sources of backstory, that indicate that Deltan sexuality tends to have insanity-inducing effects on other species.
 
No, I agree with @hbquikcomjamesl. Ilia brought it up. Kirk's line literally indicates confidence in Ilia in the same way he has confidence in Decker. Ilia's a replacement navigator. Kirk's saying he has confidence in her abilities as a navigator. Ilia misinterpreting it as a reference to Deltan sexuality is a ham-fisted attempt at humor. The even more ham-fisted cut scene with Sulu fumbling his controls was cut with good reason.
I feel like it's more Kirk blatantly changing the subject from "Why is Decker not captain any more? Is he incompetent? If he screwed up badly enough to not be captain, why is he on the ship at all?"
 
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