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What's the deal with the "French surrendering" jokes?

DevilEyes

DevilEyes

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
So, a while ago I learned from this forum and a few other English language forums like this one, that there is a very popular stereotype/joke in, apparently, USA (and perhaps UK?) about the French always surrendering. It was really something new to me, there are a lot of stupid ethnic stereotypes in my country, too, but we don't have anything of the sort about the French. What I really want to know is, where does that come from? All ethnic stereotypes are stupid, of course, but this one just seems absurd. Who did the French surrender to? :confused:

The only thing I could come up with is Nazi occupation, which is 1) an extremely tasteless thing to joke about, 2) makes no sense, since Third Reich easily defeated and occupied a bunch of other European countries as well, and 2) it's not like the British had an invasion on their land and bravely withstood it... not to mention the Americans. So... WTF is that all about? :wtf:
 
DevilEyes said:
The only thing I could come up with is Nazi occupation, which is 1) an extremely tasteless thing to joke about, 2) makes no sense, since Third Reich easily defeated and occupied a bunch of other European countries as well, and 2) it's not like the British had an invasion on their land and bravely withstood it... not to mention the Americans. So... WTF is that all about? :wtf:
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That's actually that. Because apparently, Nazi occupation is hilarious.

However, the jokes started to get more frequent after the French government spoke against the recent war venture in Iraq. Considering how it went, I'm not sure who should be laughing.

Honestly, I'm not French but the jokes bother me too.
 
It mostly comes from the fact that since World War II and their defeat in Indochina a few years later, the French have been relucant to pursue military action and will only do it when absolutely necessary.

Some of the more loudmouthed, hawkish types here in the States can't seem to understand that.

They seem to convienently forgot that for the entire Cold War, the United States heavily encouraged France, and all Western Europe, to not be excessively militant - for fears of provoking the Soviet Union.

Combine this with the fact that France never joined onto the Bush administration's plans for the War on Terror like the UK did, and you can understand. Some people want to have their cake and eat it as well. You can't demand that France be peaceable and then demand that they be militant.
 
Basically something about their will to fight being weak.

I'm an American, but I've never really used this stereotype in any conversation or heard anyone around me use it.

I did read all the stuff about "Freedom Fries" which was recent, but thought it all stupid, thankfully it was a just a quick fad that has now faded out of existence.

Us Humans, we like to make fun of anyone that isn't "like us" and we have to feel superior over everyone else, that goes for all humans.
 
Admiral Shran said:
Combine this with the fact that France never joined onto the Bush administration's plans for the War on Terror like the UK did, and you can understand. Some people want to have their cake and eat it as well. You can't demand that France be peaceable and then demand that they be militant.
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France is probably the most militant western nation around today behind the United States. They're just not stupid.
 
DevilEyes said:
So, a while ago I learned from this forum and a few other English language forums like this one, that there is a very popular stereotype/joke in, apparently, USA (and perhaps UK?) about the French always surrendering. It was really something new to me, there are a lot of stupid ethnic stereotypes in my country, too, but we don't have anything of the sort about the French. What I really want to know is, where does that come from? All ethnic stereotypes are stupid, of course, but this one just seems absurd. Who did the French surrender to? :confused:

The only thing I could come up with is Nazi occupation, which is 1) an extremely tasteless thing to joke about, 2) makes no sense, since Third Reich easily defeated and occupied a bunch of other European countries as well, and 2) it's not like the British had an invasion on their land and bravely withstood it... not to mention the Americans. So... WTF is that all about? :wtf:
Click to expand...


It's just a common stereotype. I'm a U.S. citizen and I love French culture. They're just like us in many ways in terms of pride and ambition. Stereotypes are just a way to laugh off tensions between the cultures. It's like the Polish Navy putting a screen door on their submarine, or Americans are all fat/lazy/stupid/aggressive, or how the English are all snobs who have bad teeth and drink tea all day, or the Irish are all drunks who beat their wives, or how Aussies do nothing but wrestle crocodiles and play knifey-spooney all the time.

There's a kernel of truth in every stereotype, just enough to make it seem like the whole culture is that way.
 
Not this shit again. :rolleyes:

I'd say it also has a lot more to do with otherwise reasonable people, from all countries, giving undue influence to certain assholes all out of proportion to their numbers in a society. Only a minority of people in France and the United States take, either as gospel truth or mean-spirited humor, any of these things that far. To suggest that this is something endemic to the society is to exaggerate the magnitude of this problem to levels it has never reached here (not since the 1800's, at least).

Often, the loudest people in both countries are the most ignorant, be they politicians or ranting internet douchebags. Really, they don't deserve that much credit as they do not have that kind of sway on our culture. This is actually a non issue and I don't mince words when I say that I'm sick and tired of hearing people bleat on about it like it's a frickin' epidemic of French hate.

If you walked up to most Americans and started spewing that bile, the majority would roll their eyes (or laugh AT you) and walk away. Americans are much too self-centered (one of those "kernels of truth" J. was on about) to dedicate any significant amount of mental processing to this issue. The vast majority wouldn't even really get the joke (either because of ignorance or, more likely, they don't give a shit).

FWIW, Americans consist of more than just angry conservative white dudes. Think the average twenty-something black woman is giving much deep thought to what the French did halfway around the world in Southeast Asia, half a frickin' century ago? Yeah, I'll leave you to ponder that. :techman:
 
DevilEyes said:
What I really want to know is, where does that come from? All ethnic stereotypes are stupid, of course, but this one just seems absurd. Who did the French surrender to? :confused:
Click to expand...

The French refused to go along with the clusterfuck known as the Iraq War. Naturally the were called cowards.
 
France surrendering as a joke has more to do with a percieved history of surrendering like the link above. It was a common joke well before 2001 and was not something referencing only WWII but a lot of people fixate on it as if that's the only reason. It's just the most recent and publicized one.
 
How dare France ever surrender. The only rational action is to keep fighting until all of your people are dead.
 
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

Is distorted, but pretty funny none the less.

I like the two rules for French military success.

1) France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman(Joan of Arc, Napoleon).

2) France only wins when America does most of the fighting.

All joking aside however I chalk up much of France's dismal military record to a rather horrible strategic geographical position. No one can wage war in western Europe without going through France.
 
It certainly has something to do with the French surrendering the Rhineland to the Nazis, in violation of the Treaty of Versailles. But then, I seem to remember that Mark Twain made some comment about the French being prone to surrendering, so it may go back farther than that.
 
SURRENDER?! SURRENDER?! WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS 'A' STANDS FOR?! FRANCE?!?!?!?!

-best Captain America line EVER. written by a Scot :P
 
I can't imagine Cap saying that. Was that the "Winter Soldier" Cap, or some other "nu" reimagining?
 
QCzar said:
FWIW, Americans consist of more than just angry conservative white dudes. Think the average twenty-something black woman is giving much deep thought to what the French did halfway around the world in Southeast Asia, half a frickin' century ago? Yeah, I'll leave you to ponder that. :techman:
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Very good point. Still, as you can see from this thread alone, even if it's not the majority, many people still like to reinforce the joke.

Caliburn24 said:
All joking aside however I chalk up much of France's dismal military record to a rather horrible strategic geographical position. No one can wage war in western Europe without going through France.
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France military record is far from abysmal. The link may be funny but it's very inaccurate in his presentation of facts. Under that kind of partisan scrutiny, every western nation would be portrayed unfavorably. I agree with you with the unfortunate strategic position, but If France was so military incompetent, how comes they have been a force to be reckoned with since the fall of the Roman Empire?

captcalhoun said:
SURRENDER?! SURRENDER?! WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS 'A' STANDS FOR?! FRANCE?!?!?!?!

-best Captain America line EVER. written by a Scot :P
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Apparently, it stands for "Asshole".
 
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