What is a Centurion's rank?

[Scott Kellogg]

In "Balance of Terror" we have conversations between the Commander, and another person of high importance, the Centurion. Centurion is his confidant and friend.

Did they ever try to spell out what the rank structure was for the Romulans?
I always imagined him to be something like a Navy Chief Petty Officer (or Army Sergeant.)

I tried to figure it out, and it appears that Centurions were pulled from the Roman Aristocracy
It looks like they were more of the Officer class, perhaps equivalent to a Navy Lieutenant, (or Army Captain.)

But, I don't know much about it.

Does anyone know?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion

 

[StarCruiser]

There was certainly no intent to elaborate on any of the ranks or terms used when TOS was on the air. They had essentially based some aspects of the Romulans (obviously) on the Romans and therefore used the rank or title of Centurion for the ship's (I would guess) second in command.

I have often assumed that the Romulans don't actually call themselves that, and that what we see is simple influenced by the Federation's limited information on that opponent and their culture and language.

If I were to try to make sense of it, I might go with this:

Commander - senior ship's Captain or possibly a Commodore equivalent
Sub-Commander - junior ship's Captain or just a common Captain
Centurion - senior officer similar to a Commander or Lieutenant Commander in Star Fleet.
Lieutenant - direct equivalent to Star Fleet ranks
And so on...

 

[Swedish Borg]

The Romans had decurions, officers that had (about) ten people under her command (deca in Latin meaning ten) and centurions who had (about) a hundred people under their command,... I don't know what it's supposed to mean in the Romulan army though...

 

[J.T.B.]

The Making of Star Trek says that centurion is a generic term for a Romulan officer. In the template story, The Enemy Below, the equivalent character was the U-boat's engineer officer, who was also the captain's long standing friend and confidant. He was contrasted with the second in command, an idealistic and unyielding Nazi. What the Romulan centurion's job was on the ship is not clear, but there were probably only a handful of officers. His age makes it seem as if he might have come up through the ranks, but who knows how their system works.

A Roman centurion was what we would consider a junior officer today, a platoon or company commander. They could come from the aristocracy but they could also come up as common soldiers who showed merit. As foot soldiers, they were not generally associated with the top crust of Roman society, who gravitated to the cavalry.

 

[Henoch]

From Balance of Terror:

• The Commander wears a purple sash, purple bottoms and no helm.
• The Centurion wears a purple sash, purple bottoms and no helm.
• Decius (rank unknown) wears a blue sash, blue bottoms and a helm with hexagon emblem on front.
• That's all the "sash" ranks. Everyone else wears no sashes, blue bottoms and plain helms.

From The Enterprise Incident:

• The Commander wears a tasteful part-purple and part-grey tunic/minidress and no helm.
• The Sub-Commander wears a purple sash, purple bottoms and no helm.
• The Centurion wears a blue sash, blue bottoms with plain helm.
• While impersonating the Centurion, Kirk wears a blue sash and blue bottoms but with no helm (perhaps a mistake?).
  • ROMULAN: Centurion. I'm sorry, no one is allowed...Thank you, Centurion. (got away with it once)
    
  • GUARD: Centurion, have you clearance for this area? I do not recognise you. (maybe a helm would help here)
    
  • ROMULAN: Halt. Don't move. Who are you? What are you doing in here? (maybe a helm would help here)
• One bridge officer and one engineering officer wears no sash and blue bottoms and no helm.
• Everyone else wears no sashes with blue bottoms and plain helms.

From these two examples, each Romulan ship has:

• Only two high-rank officers wearing purple and no helm. Titles are Commander, Sub-Commander and Centurion.
• One high-rank officer wearing a blue sash, blue bottoms and helm. Titles are Centurion and Unknown (but Decius could have been a Centurion, too). There may be more than one on a ship, but this is not seen. A hexagon emblem on the helm means something to do with possible ruling party affiliation and different service in their military.
• All other officers and crew wear no sashes, blue bottoms and plain helms, but perhaps the helm is optional based on other factors such as whether on duty or in combat, leadership positions where seeing the leaders face/head is needed, laxity of rules or special permission by the Commander, etc...

 

[Scott Kellogg]

I was under the impression that Decius was a rank, rather than a name.

Pure speculation:
Centurion: in command of 100?
Decius: in command of 10?

 

[Timo]

"Decius" is another very Roman thing: these folks had very little imagination when it came to names, so only the first three or so kids might get "proper" names while the fifth at the very latest would be but Quintillius, "The Fifth". Octavianus is of course "The Eighth" while Decius would be "The Tenth" (contraception being another thing the Romans weren't masters of).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Swedish Borg]

"Decius" is another very Roman thing: these folks had very little imagination when it came to names, so only the first three or so kids might get "proper" names while the fifth at the very latest would be but Quintillius, "The Fifth". Octavianus is of course "The Eighth" while Decius would be "The Tenth" (contraception being another thing the Romans weren't masters of).

Timo Saloniemi

My guess is that baby, child and teen mortality would take care of the surplus. Decius could very well end up an only child.

 

[Christopher]

I was under the impression that Decius was a rank, rather than a name.

No, that would be "decurion." Decius was a Roman surname/cognomen, so it was clearly meant by Paul Schneider to be the character's own name. Also, if it were a rank, it would've been "the decius," like "the centurion." But it wasn't. "My commander sent for Decius?"

A Roman centurion was what we would consider a junior officer today, a platoon or company commander. They could come from the aristocracy but they could also come up as common soldiers who showed merit. As foot soldiers, they were not generally associated with the top crust of Roman society, who gravitated to the cavalry.

Yes, this was always my impression, that the Centurion was a working-class soldier, the senior enlisted crewmember rather than a member of the officer elite, sort of the equivalent of Chief O'Brien. Or Martok, who wasn't born to noble blood but fought his way up as a commoner. The Centurion was an old soldier that the Commander had learned to respect for his ground-level wisdom, while Decius was an upper-class political appointee who held his rank through privilege and connections rather than having earned it the hard way.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

If Romulan culture denies contraception and Romulan women end up bearing 10+ children,
it's unlikely that we would see as many female officers of high rank that we do.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If Romulan culture denies contraception and Romulan women end up bearing 10+ children

There's no evidence they do either of these things.

Romulan culture is many things, but sexist doesn't seem to be one of them.

 

[Swedish Borg]

There's no evidence they do either of these things.

Romulan culture is many things, but sexist doesn't seem to be one of them.

It's less sexist than Starfleet culture.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's less sexist than Starfleet culture.

In what way is Starfleet sexist?

 

[Swedish Borg]

Well, until TNG we only see male Captains plus there's that remark in TI

 

[Christopher]

Well, until TNG we only see male Captains

You're forgetting Madge Sinclair as the Saratoga captain in The Voyage Home, which came out a year before TNG. And of course, other earlier female captains have since been retconned in, e.g. Erika Hernandez and Philippa Georgiou (and presumably Admiral Cornwell was a captain once).

 

[Swedish Borg]

You're forgetting Madge Sinclair as the Saratoga captain in The Voyage Home, which came out a year before TNG. And of course, other earlier female captains have since been retconned in, e.g. Erika Hernandez and Philippa Georgiou (and presumably Admiral Cornwell was a captain once).

You're forgetting Madge Sinclair as the Saratoga captain in The Voyage Home, which came out a year before TNG. And of course, other earlier female captains have since been retconned in, e.g. Erika Hernandez and Philippa Georgiou (and presumably Admiral Cornwell was a captain once).

I am not talking about retconning. I am talking about TOS. The Voyage Home came out in 1986!! that's twenty years after the first episode, seventeen after the last TOS episode, plus it was a token appearance, I barely noticed it. Too little, too late.

As for the retconning that you speak of, it happened more than FIFTY YEARS after TOS ended. If anything, it's damning for TOS.

 

[BillJ]

Since the “Centurion” asked to make the kill shot on the Enterprise, I imagine he was likely second-in-command.

 

[Christopher]

I am not talking about retconning. I am talking about TOS.

Your exact words were "until TNG." Again, The Voyage Home predated TNG by one year.

Also, you said "It's less sexist than Starfleet culture." That is a comment about the in-universe entity, not about any specific real-world work of fiction depicting it.

 

[J.T.B.]

Yes, this was always my impression, that the Centurion was a working-class soldier, the senior enlisted crewmember rather than a member of the officer elite, sort of the equivalent of Chief O'Brien. Or Martok, who wasn't born to noble blood but fought his way up as a commoner. The Centurion was an old soldier that the Commander had learned to respect for his ground-level wisdom, while Decius was an upper-class political appointee who held his rank through privilege and connections rather than having earned it the hard way.

My guess is the centurion is an officer due to the familiarity between him and the commander, but he probably got there coming up from the ranks. Or he may be an engineering or technical officer, like in the U-boat movie, in a stratified society where such practical professions are excluded from the higher ranks which are reserved for the "warrior class."

Well, until TNG we only see male Captains plus there's that remark in TI

But we saw Number One serving as captain.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I am not talking about retconning. I am talking about TOS.

Retcons are definitive.