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What does everyone think about Admiral Cartwright?

T

TheMadCloner

Captain
Captain
His character arc, for a minor character, is pretty intense. But what did you think about it? Was it well done or poorly handled? Was it believable, or did it feel shoehorned in?

Given that Valeris was originally supposed to be Saavik, I get that Meyer wanted it to be personal with characters that we already knew. The question is did it feel forced?

I do remember reading somewhere that the actor, Brock Peters, wasn't too thrilled with his character's lines and portrayal in The Undiscovered Country:

https://www.tor.com/2017/06/20/star...ewatch-star-trek-vi-the-undiscovered-country/
Nichelle Nichols and Brock Peters both had difficulty with lines given to them expressing racist attitudes toward the Klingons, using language that has been used in relation to African Americans. Nichols out-and-out refused to say, “Guess who’s coming to dinner?” and the line was transferred to Chekov.
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I think it showed that racism among humans is so far gone in the future that the former targets of racism can now be racist themselves without noticing the irony, cause they've had equality for a long time.
 
I always like Cartwright and am fine with him being a bad guy. I think it's fascinating to think of how the conspiracy got started in the first place, like just the boring minutiae of how the first steps got taken and who did it and when did he become a part of it or was he there in the beginning. What did he think was going to happen and why did that benefit the Federation? Does he embody the symbolism of a Jim Kirk that never let go of his anger and stopped hating Klingons and couldn't bear the thought of not fighting with his enemies? And the irony of Klingon and Federation rogues working together to undermine the prospect of peace bringing both nations together. I don't want a bar of any of that Section 31 novel backstory ... stuff. I hate them creeping into every Badmirals history and taking some of the power and responsibility of these individuals actions.
 
Cartwright is a fun contrast character. Like Chang, he has to act against his own organization in order to achieve his goals - but quite unlike Chang, he seems uncomfortable with it. For Chang, arranging for the assassination of the head of his own state is all in a day's work; the same deed makes Cartwright break in cold sweat.

Why is Cartwright's angle here racist? He has precious few lines overall; the one outburst against offering the Klingons safe haven or even a breather is a strategic expert opinion. His acts in turn establish him as quite capable of working alongside Klingons; he's not among those characters who condemn Chang's actions or Azetbur's callousness, say. Sure, Cartwright apparently wants all Klingons dead or subjugated. But that's his paid day job.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Love him. He's great in STIV, and he's great in STVI. Brock Peters acts the hell out the role. I think that Meyer's idea of having one of the conspirators be someone we'd previously seen as a purely heroic character was a good one.
somebuddyx said:
And the irony of Klingon and Federation rogues working together to undermine the prospect of peace bringing both nations together.
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Yes, I love that. One of my favorite aspects of TUC.
 
That's what Memory Alpha sez. I think Brock Peters is the superior actor there, but since the material is so different, it's hard to tell how this one would have gone.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Has Cartwright ever been unofficially tied to the Sisko family in any of the novels etc.? Considering Brock Peters is both Cartwright and Joseph Sisko, I can imagine Cartwright being Joseph Sisko's maternal grandfather or something.
 
Yistaan said:
Has Cartwright ever been unofficially tied to the Sisko family in any of the novels etc.? Considering Brock Peters is both Cartwright and Joseph Sisko, I can imagine Cartwright being Joseph Sisko's maternal grandfather or something.
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I think that Cartwright is from the mirror universe. ;)
 
Yistaan said:
Let me guess the switch happened between ST4 and ST6 right? Are we going to use this explanation for every Trek character that goes bad? At what points were Ro Laren and Eddington replaced with mirror impostors? :eek:
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Maybe Ro and Eddington weren't the one that got replaced :eek:

Or i need more sleep which is impossible because my kids wint let me.
 
Admiral Cartwright: Chronologically, Starfleet's first Corrupt Admiral seen on-screen. I don't think there were any in ENT, we didn't see any go passed the gray "we have to make tough choices!" areas in DSC's first two seasons, and we didn't see any in TOS. In the TOS Movies: Admiral Kirk was obsessed with the Enterprise to an unhealthy degree but he didn't mean to do anything against the Federation's interests. Admiral Morrow seemed as by-the-book as you could possibly get. The main Admiral in TUC (a.k.a. "Bill") was probably the same. And then there was Cartwright.

When presented with the possibility of peace with the Klingons as a viable option, he chose to conspire so the Federation could stay at war with the Klingons because it benefitted him. His back wasn't against the wall. His survival wasn't threatened. He'd just have to change gears and he didn't want to.
 
Lord Garth said:
Admiral Cartwright: Chronologically, Starfleet's first Corrupt Admiral seen on-screen. I don't think there were any in ENT, we didn't see any go passed the gray "we have to make tough choices!" areas in DSC's first two seasons, and we didn't see any in TOS. In the TOS Movies: Admiral Kirk was obsessed with the Enterprise to an unhealthy degree but he didn't mean to do anything against the Federation's interests. Admiral Morrow seemed as by-the-book as you could possibly get. The main Admiral in TUC (a.k.a. "Bill") was probably the same. And then there was Cartwright.

When presented with the possibility of peace with the Klingons as a viable option, he chose to conspire so the Federation could stay at war with the Klingons because it benefitted him. His back wasn't against the wall. His survival wasn't threatened. He'd just have to change gears and he didn't want to.
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If you think too hard about it, the whole thing is a fair bit improbable
 
If anything I fear it seems a lot more probable these days than it did when the film was released.
 
somebuddyx said:
What did he think was going to happen and why did that benefit the Federation?
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As he states in the (cut) operation retrieval scene, he’s confident Starfleet can defeat the klingons in a war easily. He knows that what he’s doing is morally wrong but believes that the ends justify the means and wants to rid the federation from a competitor that has been warring them for several decades instead of letting them rebuild.

I like his character a lot: some depth in the side characters is sorely missing in most of the movies.
 
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