Vulcan mating

[Grue]

hi. I am new so I apologize in advance if this is not in the correct place.

I remember seeing a lot of "fannon" that stated Saavik was preggers with Spock's child after the events on the Genesis Planet. Got me thinking about Vulcan mating. I think since they're mammals (as indicated by breast development in the females and their genetic compatibility with humans), they would have very similar mating techniques that we have (genital to genital) and the stroking of fingers may have just been a reflex/pressure point to relieve the symptoms of ponn farr without actually doing the deed. It would be like heavy petting or dry humping. But since Vulcans are telepathic through tactile contact, it could have been a transfer of emotional control that Saavik was transferring to Spock.

Just a thought.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Timo]

The finger rub may also be purely symbolic, because we see Sarek and Amanda doing it as well, and Amanda wouldn't have the Vulcan physiology to be actually receptive to telepathic petting, or (if we forget about the telepathic "nerves" that may be present in Vulcan fingers) to the purely physically pleasurable aspects such fingering might have on Vulcans.

In essence, just a complex way of holding hands.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

I think since they're mammals (as indicated by breast development in the females ...).

Cardassans are usual considered to be reptiles (reptile-like) and their females possess boobies. So in the Trek universe mammories don't automatically indicate mammals.

Just saying.

 

[Sci]

I think since they're mammals (as indicated by breast development in the females ...).

Cardassans are usual considered to be reptiles (reptile-like) and their females possess boobies. So in the Trek universe mammories don't automatically indicate mammals.

Just saying.

I wouldn't consider the existence or non-existence of mammary glands to be an indicator of mammalian or mammalian-like status. I think the primary indicator there would be whether the species is endothermic or exothermic.

 

[6079SmithW]

The finger touch thingy is just a formal romantic greeting, like kissing your spouse when leaving for or coming home from work. An example would be T'Pol's husband greeting her with this. If it were an explicitly sexual thing for Vulcans then it would not be displayed in public (Sarek and Amanda).

 

[Grue]

I think since they're mammals (as indicated by breast development in the females ...).

Cardassans are usual considered to be reptiles (reptile-like) and their females possess boobies. So in the Trek universe mammories don't automatically indicate mammals.

Just saying.

True but at what point do reptilians become more mammalian than reptilian over the course of evolution? I mean, we're mammals and we came from single-celled organisms and then fish, lizards and then eventually mammals. Maybe the Cardassians retain some reptilian traits.

 

[indolover]

Cardassian women have boobs since the human actresses playing them do. lol. Having said that, Cardassians may be a mix between mammal and reptile, who knows? They certainly have scales, dislike cold places (few reptile species in the real world live in the Arctic for example), prefer warmth, etc.

 

[Timo]

If it were an explicitly sexual thing for Vulcans then it would not be displayed in public (Sarek and Amanda).

Why not? Where's the logic in hiding a natural function?

Vulcans are embarrassed about the shortcomings in their mate-selecting process (i.e. animal instincts rather than reason). We have no evidence they'd be embarrassed about copulating, or, say, defecation. And T'Pol for one went nude at the drop of a catsuit, suggesting there was no social stigma to it.

I think the primary indicator there would be whether the species is endothermic or exothermic.

Since all terrestrial reptiles aren't exothermic (the large ones are a notable exception) and all terrestrial mammals can't be considered endothermic (the small ones are, surprise of surprises, a notable exception), classifying xenomammals and xenoreptiles on this criterion sounds a bit awkward...

Why the need for such xenodesignations to begin with? It would be simpler to just speak of humanoids: the various sapient bipeds of Trek share a genetic origin dating back billions of years - they don't share recent evolutionary developments such as the emergence of "reptilianity" or "mammalianity".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[6079SmithW]

If it were an explicitly sexual thing for Vulcans then it would not be displayed in public (Sarek and Amanda).

Why not? Where's the logic in hiding a natural function?

Vulcans are embarrassed about the shortcomings in their mate-selecting process (i.e. animal instincts rather than reason). We have no evidence they'd be embarrassed about copulating, or, say, defecation. And T'Pol for one went nude at the drop of a catsuit, suggesting there was no social stigma to it.

The OP likened the finger touching to heavy petting or dry humping. Basically, mutual masturbation. I doubt anyone would consider that appropriate for public display, especially uptight Vulcans. Therefore, I think the finger touching is the equivalent of giving your romantic partner a kiss.

 

[Timo]

Vulcans are uptight about their animal urges as regards e.g. violence. Nevertheless, they don't feel the slightest bit embarrassed about using violence in a controlled manner - say, slapping, throwing people to the walls, snapping necks and so forth. For all we know, they might be perfectly happy to publicly masturbate in a controlled and "uptight" manner, too.

What is appropriate and what is not varies greatly in human circles already. It's quite fashionable and highly regarded to publicly display one's genitals or secondary sexual characteristics and to imitate copulation moves in some cultures, especially the modern western one, yet inappropriate in others. What's to say Vulcans would choose to equate "uptight" with a nudity taboo or public sex taboo?

We haven't observed too many Vulcan couples or groups so far, so it's difficult to tell for sure. Certainly Sarek appeared to be a bit of a perv for publicly displaying tenderness, but that doesn't mean that public displays of pure lust would be considered inappropriate.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tora Ziyal]

The finger rub may also be purely symbolic, because we see Sarek and Amanda doing it as well, and Amanda wouldn't have the Vulcan physiology to be actually receptive to telepathic petting, or (if we forget about the telepathic "nerves" that may be present in Vulcan fingers) to the purely physically pleasurable aspects such fingering might have on Vulcans.

In essence, just a complex way of holding hands.

Timo Saloniemi

I've always seen Sarek and Amanda's touching fingers as a sort of a tender compromise between them. Her human desire to hold hands in public would be too intense and personal for him, the touch telepath. His instinct not to touch at all in public would be too cold and distant for her.

 

[Myasishchev]

I think since they're mammals (as indicated by breast development in the females ...).

Cardassans are usual considered to be reptiles (reptile-like) and their females possess boobies. So in the Trek universe mammories don't automatically indicate mammals.

Just saying.

I wouldn't consider the existence or non-existence of mammary glands to be an indicator of mammalian or mammalian-like status. I think the primary indicator there would be whether the species is endothermic or exothermic.

Birds are endothermic.

Personally, I would think they'd have to be from Earth.

The only mammal on Vulcan is Amanda Grayson.

It's quite fashionable and highly regarded to publicly display one's genitals or secondary sexual characteristics and to imitate copulation moves in some cultures, especially the modern western one, yet inappropriate in others.

I'm pretty sure that's not universally so within the West, living in its enlarged beating heart as I do, but Finland sounds awfully nice.

Anyway, yeah, they're just kissing.

How many other animals other than humans kiss, I wonder? It must be very few, and probably mainly primates then. (Grooming does not count. And cloaca kisses definitely do not count.)

 

[Timo]

Well, since you mentioned birds, beakplay is usually an important part of their family lives.

Apart from that, tender touching in general is an animal thing all right. You see it in all sorts of mammals at least, from shrew to Shere Khan. Unless space aliens come covered in senseless scales, touching rituals are probably common among them as well.

I'm pretty sure that's not universally so within the West, living in its enlarged beating heart as I do, but Finland sounds awfully nice.

...You mean you don't dance in the States?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Myasishchev]

Well, I don't. The only thing about me is the way that I walk.

 

[captcalhoun]

it's a Vulcan way to hold hands, not sexual.

and the principal defining characteristic of mammals is mammary glands, it's where mammal comes from.

Cardies are clearly some kind of repto-mammalian hybrid species.

 

[Agenda]

Sarek and Amanda are exhibitionists. Finger touching is like the Vulcan equivalent of making out in public.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, I don't. The only thing about me is the way that I walk.

No doubt you're a woman's man, no time to talk.

 

[Myasishchev]

I was going for the Phil Collins reference, but the Bee Gees are pretty neat too.