Vulcan culture seems pretty sketchy at times…

[BohandiAnsoid]

The more I learn about Vulcan culture, the more sketchy it seems to me. It seems to have quite totalitarian keanings, to be honest. In a few places, such as the Voyager episode “Gravity”, itvis clear than mainstream Vulcans fully believe that all Vulcans should be like them, their choice being irrelevant. They do whatever they can to enforce it, although, being in the Federation, they are fully free to do so. And there are many cery good and valid reasons a Vulcan may want to leave that culture. Such as their arranged marriages. And, while their claim that without all these controls, they would be mindless animals, this is not entirely true - Romulans have a different culture, and they are most definitely not mindless animals.

Not to mention, many Vulcans have nasty habit to justify unethical actions as logical, and criticize ethical actions that are designed to counteract unethical actions as illogical and emotional.

Of course, it was much worse pre - Federation. But even during Federation…

After all, is it irrational to call what happened to Tuvok in flashback of “Gravity” brainwashing back into line?

Especially considering that, of all major Vulcan characters, Tuvok is the one that is most normal. He is the least rebellious. Among other things, he is the only major Vulcan character to voluntarily go through his arranged marriages and for it to be stable. And yes, it was all fine for him and everyone, but it still, it shows something.

So, do you think I make sense or am I wrong in some places (or entirely)? What do you think?

 

[somebuddyX]

I don't remember "Gravity" but since they used to be a bunch of warmongering violent assholes who nuked their own planet, I'd say they have reason to be a bit wary of emotions. Yes they can seem sketchy if you think that seeing guest characters as antagonists or foils for characters is a bad thing, but I would counter that we regularly see humans acting across the spectrum of the character types, and that the familiarity of Vulcans or Bajorans or Klingons or other races should allow that same view of them. I like that their adherence to logic is not a static view for their entire race, it's up to the individual to decide what that logic really is. You could put Tuvok and Spock in a room and maybe they'd come up with different solutions to a problem. Tuvok used logic to go steal the device in "Prime Factors" and melded with Lon Suder in "Meld." Spock might have done none of those. You can't take the writers habit of boiling an entire culture down to the actions of a couple of individuals at face value. Television has to take shortcuts to get the message across for time and ease. It has budgets that don't often allow you to see everything they'd want to do. If you had a Star Trek series set entirely on Vulcan or on a predominantly Vulcan ship you would get characters all across the spectrum.

 

[MarcKle1964]

Imagines The Naked Time...with 435 Vulcans. The scenery would not be unchewed for very long I would say.

I wish TNG had shown more all-Vulcan crews in Starfleet.

 

[at Quark's]

Well, of course Vulcan culture seems 'sketchy'. It was never meant to be a fully fledged and coherent life philosophy- it's nothing more than a made up cultural background for a TV show. Moreover, it wasn't thought up in one go, they invented it piece by piece as they went along, depending on what the episode needed.

As for Tuvok being the most normal - well, he is fully Vulcan (unlike Spock), and from a time where Vulcan Culture has lived within the Federation for several centuries (unlike T'Pol), so perhaps that might have something to do with it.

But I agree Vulcan culture seems to leave less room for individual expression than Western humans would like.

 

[knightgrace]

I have been thinking about this recently.

When Lenard Nimoy, was developing the background for Spock and all Vulcans in particular, he came up with using his heritage to give a sense of background.

He was an Orthodox Jew, meaning that he took GOD, very seriously indeed.

So what has this to do with Logic?

Everything.

For Vulcans, Logic is real! This first has to be fully understood. Secondly, it means that there is only one narrative in play. This narrative determines whether something is logical or not.


This narrative provides the total framework of the dealings of the Universe itself. The creators of Star Trek: Enterprise, almost got it right. But they didn't go far enough because they were trying for political correctness rather than how a 2,000+ years old Civilization would actually be.

The Analicts of the Vulcans are very exacting. As, are God's Laws in the real world. From birth to death, they are taught them every single day, they eat, breathe, and chew on them.

For them it is survival itself.

So if you find a problem, blame the writers for not doing proper homework.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Spock especially is historically reluctant to inform even his closest friends about major relatives, not to mention health issues. Who knows what additional secrets he never told Kirk and the rest. When I read between the lines in 1982, I discovered he owned a fnoopa.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The way I see it, it's likely that once the subset of Vulcans went off to become Romulans, that they became much more protective of their culture. It would make sense then to make sure that mainstream Vulcans stayed true to their roots & culture, and it would also help explain why they are so strict at times. Naturally, when a culture feels attacked, there's this inherent need to protect it.

 

[fireproof78]

The Analicts of the Vulcans are very exacting. As, are God's Laws in the real world. From birth to death, they are taught them every single day, they eat, breathe, and chew on them.

Well said and a interesting tie in to the Jewish background that reflects the attitude of following the Law.

 

[Ronald Held]

Vulcan culture works most smoothly with a high degree on conformity.

 

[FredH]

TBF, I tend to think that if you look closely enough, any (and every) culture has a noticeable strain of sketchiness to it.

 

[Shawnster]

And, while their claim that without all these controls, they would be mindless animals, this is not entirely true - Romulans have a different culture, and they are most definitely not mindless animals.

I don't remember "Gravity" but since they used to be a bunch of warmongering violent assholes who nuked their own planet, I'd say they have reason to be a bit wary of emotions

The Romulans and their exodus explain all this rather well. It was the combination of telepathy and emotions that led to the Vulcan civil war, global holocaust, and ultimate split with the people that became Romulans. Each side chose to give up one or the other - emotions or telepathy. Those who chose to follow Surak be giving up emotions, embracing logic, and keeping telepathy. Those who chose to march under the raptor's wings gave up telepathy and embraced emotions.

Imagines The Naked Time...with 435 Vulcans. The scenery would not be unchewed for very long I would say.

This was somewhat depicted in ENT episode "Impulse" when the Enterprise replayed the final logs from the Vulcan ship Vaankara that they found adrift in the Delphic Expanse.

It would make sense then to make sure that mainstream Vulcans stayed true to their roots & culture, and it would also help explain why they are so strict at times.

But those roots would be how Vulcan was prior to Surak. Neither side, Vulcan nor Romulan, stayed completely true to their roots. Each gave up part of their former culture when they forged their new path.

 

[Owain Taggart]

But those roots would be how Vulcan was prior to Surak. Neither side, Vulcan nor Romulan, stayed completely true to their roots. Each gave up part of their former culture when they forged their new path.

Exactly, so why wouldn't they want to protect and preserve their culture? It's an instinctive reaction, especially in the face of a faction they consider a threat. Maybe such a split caused them to search inwards? It's not implausible.

 

[somebuddyX]

The Romulans and their exodus explain all this rather well. It was the combination of telepathy and emotions that led to the Vulcan civil war, global holocaust, and ultimate split with the people that became Romulans. Each side chose to give up one or the other - emotions or telepathy. Those who chose to follow Surak be giving up emotions, embracing logic, and keeping telepathy. Those who chose to march under the raptor's wings gave up telepathy and embraced emotions.

That's very interesting! I had never thought about it like that but it makes a lot of sense to me if the telepathy is tied into why Vulcans have such strong emotions, and that the Romulans don't have telepathy and don't have all those issues.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It makes me wonder, can Romulans eventually learn to mind meld?
They are genetic cousins to the Vulcans.

 

[Ronald Held]

OT, but in the small population of what would become Romulams, perhaps they were much less skilled in telepathy? Or genetic damage on the long trip disabled that ability? Another possibility is that the ability exists but without training, that skill cannot be used?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

You'd think their spies, at the very least, would love to be able to use such a talent. Unless they believe it's far too dangerous to have such a vulnerability because if you can access someone else's mind, they can also access yours.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Or there might still be "Cultural Aversion" to Mind Melds by Romulans, despite knowing about it being practiced by Vulcans for hundreds of years.
Who knows what kind of attitudes they may hold to that idea.

 

[fireproof78]

If Romulans as a general rule are paranoid and suspicious, because Trek loves that trope, then the whole "my mind to your mind, my thoughts to your thoughts" might sound like torture.

 

[Owain Taggart]

It makes me wonder, can Romulans eventually learn to mind meld?
They are genetic cousins to the Vulcans.

It's probably in their physiology, so they can probably do it, but I think it's that they've chosen to reject it. Or more precisely, there probably was a point in time where they could, but maybe over several 100's of years eventually evolved out of being able to.

Of course, one other big difference is in their prevalent societal and cultural attitudes; The Romulans are imperialistic, even moddled after the Romans with a similar military structure. While Vulcans on the other hand primarily seem to be viewed as explorers.

 

[BillJ]

Give CBS time. Soon they'll be like the average 80's sitcom family.