The first two seasons of Voyager are exceptional and some of the best Star Trek outside of TOS. The third season was very enjoyable as well. Unfortunately Chakotay, one of the strongest characters in the ensemble became increasingly marginalised during season 3 and was a complete non-entity by season 4. Season 4 was a sensation at the time mainly because of the introduction of Seven but despite several excellent episodes it hasn't held up as well as the first two seasons or even the third season of Voyager in my estimation. After Jeri Taylor's departure Voyager was never the same again and I lost interest during season 5. It just felt like an entirely different series with too many TNG elements shoehorned into it. The Equinox two part arc was outstanding but otherwise the final three seasons of Voyager were mediocre.
Voyager was the best spin-off for its first two seasons
- Thread starter Miltonic
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For me Voyager is a high-quality show from CARETAKER to ENDGAME. I don't really know TOS, I saw an episode here and there but I found them boring. Probably because of the way films were made back then. They all felt way too slow for my taste. So I can't compare VOY (or any other Trek shows) to TOS. For me VOY is way better and way more interesting than anything else Trek.
I agree that there is a difference between the first three and the last four seasons but I don't think that that change is that dramatic. That's probably because Janeway is my favourite character and she is very much herself from Season 1 to Season 7. People often say that VOY is similar to TNG. I don't see that, since for me TNG, and especially Picard are boring and VOY and esp. Janeway are interesting. So I see no similarities between the two. If they actually borrowed ideas from that show, it seems to me they did a better job with them on VOY.
I think that the idea of axing Kes was a bad one and adding Seven as a new character was an excellent one. In contrast to most people on this board, I also love anything Borg. Most people complain about how we had way too much of them but it's the other way round for me: I wish we had had three times as many Borg-centered episodes. They are my favourite villain so I could have done with more.
So to sum it up, while I love the first two seasons, I don't love them more than the rest of the show. Interestingly enough, for me both the strongest (Season 4) and the weakest (Season 6) seasons happened during the Seven of Nine years.
I agree that there is a difference between the first three and the last four seasons but I don't think that that change is that dramatic. That's probably because Janeway is my favourite character and she is very much herself from Season 1 to Season 7. People often say that VOY is similar to TNG. I don't see that, since for me TNG, and especially Picard are boring and VOY and esp. Janeway are interesting. So I see no similarities between the two. If they actually borrowed ideas from that show, it seems to me they did a better job with them on VOY.
I think that the idea of axing Kes was a bad one and adding Seven as a new character was an excellent one. In contrast to most people on this board, I also love anything Borg. Most people complain about how we had way too much of them but it's the other way round for me: I wish we had had three times as many Borg-centered episodes. They are my favourite villain so I could have done with more.
So to sum it up, while I love the first two seasons, I don't love them more than the rest of the show. Interestingly enough, for me both the strongest (Season 4) and the weakest (Season 6) seasons happened during the Seven of Nine years.
Thank you for the reply. My thoughts coincide with yours with the exception of TOS and the Borg. The Devil in the Dark was TOS episode which hooked me on Star Trek and it's the perfect encapsulation of everything Star Trek should be about (completely lost on the derivative modern film versions of Star Trek).
The first two seasons of VOY and parts of season 3 are Star Trek at its purest. Season 4 of VOY however riveting it may be looses something of the refinement from the earlier seasons. By season 5 a sentimentality is creeping into the franchise along with concessions to the larger Star Trek universe as DS9 is winding down. The isolation of VOY is lost and by season's 6 and 7 the show is in real danger of becoming a TNG by-product.
By the way, I much prefer the first two VOY seasons to the entirety of TNG and anything from DS9 and Enterprise. Voyager was the last true Star Trek series.
S5 is my favorite Voyager season, with gem after gem after gem, but my favorite two episodes come from S3, and are almost back-to-back - Distant Origin (#1 for me) and Worst Case Scenario (#2). But I agree that S1 and S2 are very enjoyable and high-quality. I was never that taken with TNG either, although I did enjoy Generations, First Contact, the Picard series, and even Nemesis (!).
I agree, the early seasons of Voyager were way better than some others.
- There were very strong episodes like Deadlock, The Thaw, and Meld.
- It had a good villain in Seska.
- The Kazon weren't that great, but the Vidiians had promise.
- It was true to its original premise, as opposed to TNG 2.0.
- Chakotay and Janeway had great chemistry, and they were able to play more with it.
- Harry's low rank made sense.
- It wasn't the 7/EMH Show.
- Janeway still had the Bun of Steel!
- There were very strong episodes like Deadlock, The Thaw, and Meld.
- It had a good villain in Seska.
- The Kazon weren't that great, but the Vidiians had promise.
- It was true to its original premise, as opposed to TNG 2.0.
- Chakotay and Janeway had great chemistry, and they were able to play more with it.
- Harry's low rank made sense.
- It wasn't the 7/EMH Show.
- Janeway still had the Bun of Steel!
I totally agree with your statements here.
While both TNG and DS9 were abit slow in the start, Voyager came on with full speed from the start.
I remember watching Caretaker and thought, "now this is great".
The whole episode was so exciting from beginning to end and I took an immediate liking to all the main characters. Now that have only happened twice to me later, with NCIS and CSI NY.
Season 1 was very good and season 2 fantastic. Season 3 was OK but with more bum episodes than season 1 and 2 had.
But when Kes was kicked out for dubious reasons, I stopped watching for two years.
However, I couldn't totally forget my old heroes so later on I started to watch it again, renting VHS tapes from a local retailer to catxch up with the ongoing airing of the series.
Which was a mistake!
Then came a certain episode in season 6 and then I definitely quit.
I only watched Endgame which also was a mistake by me. Such a lousy end episode.
I totally agree with you about Chakotay, my second favorite after Kes.
A great character who could have been a great first officer, sadly wasted from season 3 and onwards, but Nemesis was a good Chakotay episode.
Equinox was actually good.
I got the impression that somewhere during S3, they gave up on trying to make it entirely its own series, and establishing its own 'feel', and just decided to go with what they though would make it popular with the viewers, eventually culminating in the S4 cast changes.
Not that I think S4-S7 VOY is bad, but it does feel more 'standard formula' Trek.
Not that I think S4-S7 VOY is bad, but it does feel more 'standard formula' Trek.
You said it!
Season 3 was generic in parts but still had several excellent episodes which are pure Star Trek. Coda is my personal favourite. There was a subtle tone shift however.
Season 4 was cinematic and had quite a few great episodes but by season 5 there was a marked deterioration in quality but there are still a few standout episodes such as Thirty Days and the Equinox arc.
Season 6 and 7 are mediocre TNG off-shoots. Only Seven of Nine and the EMH occasionally lift the subpar writing. The rest of the characters are empty and Chakotay has been a mannequin since some indeterminate point in season 3.
The more I think about it the strongest character elements of the first two VOY seasons are Chakotay and Seska (another underrated character). Tom Paris is still belligerent and the tension between Starfleet and Marquis evident. You also have the acting masterclass from Brad Dourif as the sociopathic Lon Suder. The politics in the Delta quadrant are much more interesting as well with scarcity of resources and nomadic species. Then you have the Caretaker which along with the Horta is the best realized nonanthropomorphic species in Star Trek. Most of all VOY in it's first two seasons is formulaic Star Trek but that's good because the quintessence of Star Trek is edifying unlike so much other televisual Sci-fi.
All salient points which I concur with save for the Kazon. I actually found them more convincing as a warrior species than the Kilngons who became caricatures in the films and spin-off media (the Klingons in TOS are brutish). The Kazon actually felt threatening and dangerous. The hunter successors to the Kazon were also well received by myself.
Same here. It's tied with Where No Man Has Gone Before best pilot in Star Trek history. The Array and the Caretaker were both brilliantly realized.
Her treatment was shoddy. She was definitely one of the best characters with so much potential.
That wouldn't be the Irish episode?
To a lone ship with no hope of reinforcement, any enemy would because threat. If Voyager had had the rest of the Federation backing it up, the Kazon would have been about as threatening as the Marshmallow People.
Very true. Either Harry or Chakotay would have been a better choice for which character to eliminate. Or, better yet, just roll with ten.
Nah, it's the one where Seven gets choke slammed by the Rock.
I don't agree. I'm not a big fan of Season One. I thought Season Two was pretty good, but it's not among my favorite seasons of the series.
Tsunkatse?
Compare the tone of the teaser to the transmitted televised episode, as described by SF Debris...
Or skip ahead to the best bit, probably:
I actually like the Kazon.
Really good villains and the whole scenario with rivalizing sects has some resemblance in the "real world" (or the Gray Universe as often call it). How many times has it happened that the overthrown of a dictatorship or colonial power ends with the former members of the Liberation Movement starts squabbling about this and that?
As for the Klingons, they are still OK even if they are Federation buddies now. The explanations in TOS, TNG and DS9 are plausible as I see it.
I agree. While great series like TNG and DS9 started abit slow, Voyager started with a bang.
Yes!
[/QUOTE] That wouldn't be the Irish episode?[/QUOTE]
No!
That one was bad and boring.
But it wasn't as bad and insulting as the piece of crap episode in which Kes was destroyed.
We're messing with you, as I'm sure you know.
And yes, "Fur..." ah, I mean that episode should not have been made. Better to have Kes come back in "Shattered", when it woukd have made sense.
I know!We're messing with you, as I'm sure you know.
And yes, "Fur..." ah, I mean that episode should not have been made. Better to have Kes come back in "Shattered", when it woukd have made sense.
But as you understand, I must react to it the way I always do. Otherwise my fans would be disappointed.
It would be like a Clint Eastwood movie in which he's not involved in any fight or gunfight.
What would make Shattered a good episode for a Kes come-back?
I haven't watched that one.
Or she could interfere in her 'evolved' form ('you were never meant to exist in a fractured time continuum'). Either way, she might be the person that 'fixes' all (even unevolved Kes could sometimes see beyond certain time loops and other phenomena).
But it wouldn't undo the damage to the character that we saw in that episode.
It woud only be another of those flashbacks or alternate universe stories and nothing would change
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