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Vader's birth/Padme's death in light of Rise of Skywalker (spoilers for TROS))

Xerxes82

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Ok, so first things first. Spoilers for Rise of Skywalker! Do not pass if you care about such things! Don't even read the tl:dr, it also includes spoilers.

TL: DR - Rise of Skywalker potentially explains Padme's death via Darth Vader unconsciously draining her life away.

So, let's get in the way back machine and go all the way back to the end of the last trilogy and Revenge of the Sith. Obi-wan savagely amputates Anakin's limbs and leaves him burning and in agony. Padme, after being attacked by Anakin, goes into labor. And although the medical droids claim they can find no cause, she is dying. "She has lost the will to live."

This is probably the single dumbest moment of the prequel trilogy. Forget Jar Jar Binks. Padme's boyfriend goes evil and suddenly she just wants to die, with no thought at all for her twin children that are in the process of being born at that very moment. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but it just completely takes me out of the movie every single time. WTF?!

However, the sequence is cut in a way that has always been interesting, and offered my headspace an opportunity to justify the action. The entire sequence cuts back and forth between Padme and Vader, as he is rescued from Mustafar and placed into the familiar life support suit. And I always thought it would be interesting if Vader had unconsciously connected to Padme and was unintentionally draining of her of the Force to keep himself alive in his ruined state. And now Rise of Skywalker may have actually opened the door to my silly fanon being plausible. To that end:

Did Darth Vader vampirically feed on the life of his pregnant wife to keep himself alive after being injured on Mustafar?

Force healing is now a thing. TROS grants this incredibly powerful boon to the Jedi, but also implies that it comes at a cost. Mortal wounds require, to borrow a phrase from an entirely unrelated franchise, equivalent exchange. To heal someone from death requires someone else to die. This is most evident when Ben Solo heals Rey at the climax of TROS, an action which ends his own life moments later. But it is also in play when Rey heals Ben after stabbing him through the chest aboard the Death Star wreckage. In that moment, Leia has connected to her son, and we see that it she that passes away. Fueling her son's regeneration with her own life force? It's telling that Leia doesn't fade into the Force until Ben dies, which I think strengthens this interpretation of events.

We also know that it can go the other way. That life can be stolen. Palpatine does just this to rejuvenate himself during his battle with Rey and Ben. There's a hand wavey explanation about the power of their connection in the Force to justify just how much power he's able to drain from them. But the principle is sound. Force vampirism. In the old Legends EU this used to be a thing as well (see Darth Nihilus).

Vader was obsessed with keeping Padme alive. As he lays burning, his thoughts turn to her. And, perhaps without intent or conscious effort, he reaches out to her in the Force. And begins to feed. Slowly draining away her energy. So grievous are his wounds, and so slow the drain, that he isn't able to heal, but merely prolong his agonizing and tortured existence. But as he continues to draw breath he steals more and more of her to keep himself alive. Until she simply gives out. And the only thing that keeps Vader alive at that point is that he's bought himself enough time for the Emperor to strap him into his new wardrobe.

The tragedy of it is kind of beautiful, in a way. That Anakin could directly be responsible for his wife's death without ever meaning to. And that the death of the kind, caring woman could fuel the emergence of a creature of evil and malevolence that is the stuff of legends.

Oh, and it conveniently does away with that stupid "lost the will to live" bit too. Medical droids just don't have a test for having your life sucked away by the Force.

Thoughts? Criticism? Where have I gone hopelessly astray?
 
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While this wouldn’t have been considered at the time of writing ROTS, I think the idea has merit, and is certainly better than the “lost the will to live” tripe, which devalued the strong character we knew Padme to be. A good retcon, at least for my head canon.

Great theory.
 
The fan idea that I always liked most was that Palpatine drained Padmé to help Anakin survive. I like just how much of an a-hole that makes him, the perverse idea that he intentionally killed Padmé to save the guy who only joined him in the first place in order to save Padmé.
 
The new Sith lore that TRoS gives us actually makes me wonder why Palpatine bothered saving Anakin at all, since it would've been more to his benefit to let him die and seek out yet another new Vessel.

On-topic, this is a very well-constructed theory that is entirely plausible based on both the new Force lore that TRoS gave us and on what we'd already known about the Force as established by the Prequels, The Clone Wars, and Rebels.
 
I put forward pretty much this exact theory a few years back, based almost exclusively on how Padme's death/Vader's birth scene was intercut, along with the way her heartbeat fades as his strengthens...and of course the medial droids' inability to diagnose what's causing her to fade.
Indeed I was convinced then as I am now that this was Lucas's intent, at least in terms of the metaphor. He's an editor and a cinematographer at his core after all and those are the languages he's most able to communicate his intent. It fits thematically, it fits the edit, and the sound design and it fits with what we know of the force.
 
Based on the last movie, I'd say maybe the Emperor snuffed her out via long-distance. What better way to bring Anakin completely over to the Dark Side than making sure his wife doesn't survive the events?

Force-choke by trans-location--we saw a lot of that in TROS (trues, I pronounce it)

But a drain to help Anikin does make sense.

DNA was left by Ben/Kylo and Rey on Exegol. Something to remember.
 
Bey

;)


=====

Count me in as one who likes this theory and "fixes" a prequel problem. Either Vader or Emperor works well...I might say it was Vader who did it... being MORE powerful than the Emperor (doing it long distance, white Emperor close of TROS needed to be close)... but the Emperor learned/discovered it from Vader and grew to use it later
 
Honestly, ever since Revenge of the Sith I've always assumed Palpatine Force manipulated the midichlorians in Padme's body to kill her. The medical droid had no way to explain this, so it said she'd lost the will to live. And I still think that, nothing in Rise of Skywalker has changed my mind on that.
 
I think people persistently misunderstand the function of the Midichlorians as I see a lot of people talk as if they're exclusively what creates the force. They're not: they're just a means of communication, bridging the gap between the luminous and the crude matter. So no, Palpatine doesn't have to manipulate the midichlorians in Padme's cells to gank her anymore than he would when force choking a person. The force is the force, and midichlorians are midichlorians.

If Palps did anything at all in that scene it was to establish the bridge that drained Padme's life force into Vader...but I don't like that idea because thematically it makes more sense if it's Vader doing it, even unknowingly.
 
Ok, so first things first. Spoilers for Rise of Skywalker! Do not pass if you care about such things! Don't even read the tl:dr, it also includes spoilers.

TL: DR - Rise of Skywalker potentially explains Padme's death via Darth Vader unconsciously draining her life away.

So, let's get in the way back machine and go all the way back to the end of the last trilogy and Revenge of the Sith. Obi-wan savagely amputates Anakin's limbs and leaves him burning and in agony. Padme, after being attacked by Anakin, goes into labor. And although the medical droids claim they can find no cause, she is dying. "She has lost the will to live."

This is probably the single dumbest moment of the prequel trilogy. Forget Jar Jar Binks. Padme's boyfriend goes evil and suddenly she just wants to die, with no thought at all for her twin children that are in the process of being born at that very moment. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but it just completely takes me out of the movie every single time. WTF?!

However, the sequence is cut in a way that has always been interesting, and offered my headspace an opportunity to justify the action. The entire sequence cuts back and forth between Padme and Vader, as he is rescued from Mustafar and placed into the familiar life support suit. And I always thought it would be interesting if Vader had unconsciously connected to Padme and was unintentionally draining of her of the Force to keep himself alive in his ruined state. And now Rise of Skywalker may have actually opened the door to my silly fanon being plausible. To that end:

Did Darth Vader vampirically feed on the life of his pregnant wife to keep himself alive after being injured on Mustafar?

Force healing is now a thing. TROS grants this incredibly powerful boon to the Jedi, but also implies that it comes at a cost. Mortal wounds require, to borrow a phrase from an entirely unrelated franchise, equivalent exchange. To heal someone from death requires someone else to die. This is most evident when Ben Solo heals Rey at the climax of TROS, an action which ends his own life moments later. But it is also in play when Rey heals Ben after stabbing him through the chest aboard the Death Star wreckage. In that moment, Leia has connected to her son, and we see that it she that passes away. Fueling her son's regeneration with her own life force? It's telling that Leia doesn't fade into the Force until Ben dies, which I think strengthens this interpretation of events.

We also know that it can go the other way. That life can be stolen. Palpatine does just this to rejuvenate himself during his battle with Rey and Ben. There's a hand wavey explanation about the power of their connection in the Force to justify just how much power he's able to drain from them. But the principle is sound. Force vampirism. In the old Legends EU this used to be a thing as well (see Darth Nihilus).

Vader was obsessed with keeping Padme alive. As he lays burning, his thoughts turn to her. And, perhaps without intent or conscious effort, he reaches out to her in the Force. And begins to feed. Slowly draining away her energy. So grievous are his wounds, and so slow the drain, that he isn't able to heal, but merely prolong his agonizing and tortured existence. But as he continues to draw breath he steals more and more of her to keep himself alive. Until she simply gives out. And the only thing that keeps Vader alive at that point is that he's bought himself enough time for the Emperor to strap him into his new wardrobe.

The tragedy of it is kind of beautiful, in a way. That Anakin could directly be responsible for his wife's death without ever meaning to. And that the death of the kind, caring woman could fuel the emergence of a creature of evil and malevolence that is the stuff of legends.

Oh, and it conveniently does away with that stupid "lost the will to live" bit too. Medical droids just don't have a test for having your life sucked away by the Force.

Thoughts? Criticism? Where have I gone hopelessly astray?
It's my head canon that Palpatine was draining her life force or as you say, Anakin was doing it himself unwittingly.
 
Ok, so first things first. Spoilers for Rise of Skywalker! Do not pass if you care about such things! Don't even read the tl:dr, it also includes spoilers.

TL: DR - Rise of Skywalker potentially explains Padme's death via Darth Vader unconsciously draining her life away.

So, let's get in the way back machine and go all the way back to the end of the last trilogy and Revenge of the Sith. Obi-wan savagely amputates Anakin's limbs and leaves him burning and in agony. Padme, after being attacked by Anakin, goes into labor. And although the medical droids claim they can find no cause, she is dying. "She has lost the will to live."

This is probably the single dumbest moment of the prequel trilogy. Forget Jar Jar Binks. Padme's boyfriend goes evil and suddenly she just wants to die, with no thought at all for her twin children that are in the process of being born at that very moment. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but it just completely takes me out of the movie every single time. WTF?!

However, the sequence is cut in a way that has always been interesting, and offered my headspace an opportunity to justify the action. The entire sequence cuts back and forth between Padme and Vader, as he is rescued from Mustafar and placed into the familiar life support suit. And I always thought it would be interesting if Vader had unconsciously connected to Padme and was unintentionally draining of her of the Force to keep himself alive in his ruined state. And now Rise of Skywalker may have actually opened the door to my silly fanon being plausible. To that end:

Did Darth Vader vampirically feed on the life of his pregnant wife to keep himself alive after being injured on Mustafar?

Force healing is now a thing. TROS grants this incredibly powerful boon to the Jedi, but also implies that it comes at a cost. Mortal wounds require, to borrow a phrase from an entirely unrelated franchise, equivalent exchange. To heal someone from death requires someone else to die. This is most evident when Ben Solo heals Rey at the climax of TROS, an action which ends his own life moments later. But it is also in play when Rey heals Ben after stabbing him through the chest aboard the Death Star wreckage. In that moment, Leia has connected to her son, and we see that it she that passes away. Fueling her son's regeneration with her own life force? It's telling that Leia doesn't fade into the Force until Ben dies, which I think strengthens this interpretation of events.

We also know that it can go the other way. That life can be stolen. Palpatine does just this to rejuvenate himself during his battle with Rey and Ben. There's a hand wavey explanation about the power of their connection in the Force to justify just how much power he's able to drain from them. But the principle is sound. Force vampirism. In the old Legends EU this used to be a thing as well (see Darth Nihilus).

Vader was obsessed with keeping Padme alive. As he lays burning, his thoughts turn to her. And, perhaps without intent or conscious effort, he reaches out to her in the Force. And begins to feed. Slowly draining away her energy. So grievous are his wounds, and so slow the drain, that he isn't able to heal, but merely prolong his agonizing and tortured existence. But as he continues to draw breath he steals more and more of her to keep himself alive. Until she simply gives out. And the only thing that keeps Vader alive at that point is that he's bought himself enough time for the Emperor to strap him into his new wardrobe.

The tragedy of it is kind of beautiful, in a way. That Anakin could directly be responsible for his wife's death without ever meaning to. And that the death of the kind, caring woman could fuel the emergence of a creature of evil and malevolence that is the stuff of legends.

Oh, and it conveniently does away with that stupid "lost the will to live" bit too. Medical droids just don't have a test for having your life sucked away by the Force.

Thoughts? Criticism? Where have I gone hopelessly astray?

Based on the last movie, I'd say maybe the Emperor snuffed her out via long-distance. What better way to bring Anakin completely over to the Dark Side than making sure his wife doesn't survive the events?
Either one of these options would work a lot better for me than what we got in the movie. I find it very, very hard to believe that Padme would just abandon her children the way they say she did at the end of Revenge of the Sith.
 
Either one of these options would work a lot better for me than what we got in the movie. I find it very, very hard to believe that Padme would just abandon her children the way they say she did at the end of Revenge of the Sith.
This thread demonstrates that just about any explanation would be better. Padme abandoning her children goes against pretty much every biological impulse and saying "there's no medical cause" bothers me so much. Never mind the ridiculous continuity error it adds.
 
Ok, so first things first. Spoilers for Rise of Skywalker! Do not pass if you care about such things! Don't even read the tl:dr, it also includes spoilers.

TL: DR - Rise of Skywalker potentially explains Padme's death via Darth Vader unconsciously draining her life away.

So, let's get in the way back machine and go all the way back to the end of the last trilogy and Revenge of the Sith. Obi-wan savagely amputates Anakin's limbs and leaves him burning and in agony. Padme, after being attacked by Anakin, goes into labor. And although the medical droids claim they can find no cause, she is dying. "She has lost the will to live."

This is probably the single dumbest moment of the prequel trilogy. Forget Jar Jar Binks. Padme's boyfriend goes evil and suddenly she just wants to die, with no thought at all for her twin children that are in the process of being born at that very moment. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but it just completely takes me out of the movie every single time. WTF?!

However, the sequence is cut in a way that has always been interesting, and offered my headspace an opportunity to justify the action. The entire sequence cuts back and forth between Padme and Vader, as he is rescued from Mustafar and placed into the familiar life support suit. And I always thought it would be interesting if Vader had unconsciously connected to Padme and was unintentionally draining of her of the Force to keep himself alive in his ruined state. And now Rise of Skywalker may have actually opened the door to my silly fanon being plausible. To that end:

Did Darth Vader vampirically feed on the life of his pregnant wife to keep himself alive after being injured on Mustafar?

Force healing is now a thing. TROS grants this incredibly powerful boon to the Jedi, but also implies that it comes at a cost. Mortal wounds require, to borrow a phrase from an entirely unrelated franchise, equivalent exchange. To heal someone from death requires someone else to die. This is most evident when Ben Solo heals Rey at the climax of TROS, an action which ends his own life moments later. But it is also in play when Rey heals Ben after stabbing him through the chest aboard the Death Star wreckage. In that moment, Leia has connected to her son, and we see that it she that passes away. Fueling her son's regeneration with her own life force? It's telling that Leia doesn't fade into the Force until Ben dies, which I think strengthens this interpretation of events.

We also know that it can go the other way. That life can be stolen. Palpatine does just this to rejuvenate himself during his battle with Rey and Ben. There's a hand wavey explanation about the power of their connection in the Force to justify just how much power he's able to drain from them. But the principle is sound. Force vampirism. In the old Legends EU this used to be a thing as well (see Darth Nihilus).

Vader was obsessed with keeping Padme alive. As he lays burning, his thoughts turn to her. And, perhaps without intent or conscious effort, he reaches out to her in the Force. And begins to feed. Slowly draining away her energy. So grievous are his wounds, and so slow the drain, that he isn't able to heal, but merely prolong his agonizing and tortured existence. But as he continues to draw breath he steals more and more of her to keep himself alive. Until she simply gives out. And the only thing that keeps Vader alive at that point is that he's bought himself enough time for the Emperor to strap him into his new wardrobe.

The tragedy of it is kind of beautiful, in a way. That Anakin could directly be responsible for his wife's death without ever meaning to. And that the death of the kind, caring woman could fuel the emergence of a creature of evil and malevolence that is the stuff of legends.

Oh, and it conveniently does away with that stupid "lost the will to live" bit too. Medical droids just don't have a test for having your life sucked away by the Force.

Thoughts? Criticism? Where have I gone hopelessly astray?

I posted something similar on Reddit a few days ago. I really think that they should edit RotS, and maybe even some of AotC to put hints and mentions of this in.
 
We've also seen (recently, especially) that lot of thought isn't required to use the Force, and it can just blip out by reflex or accident. I think my read would be that the part of Anakin that was Anakin was either ignorant of Force healing (possible, since Rey could've learned of it from the ancient books, but perhaps unlikely, since confirming its existence also supports the old fan-theory that when Obi-Wan feels Luke's forehead after he's knocked out by the Sand People, he's giving him a little Force pick-me-up and not just taking his temperature), or he was selfish and thought it was unacceptable because it wasn't that he couldn't bear for Padme to die (in which case he could sacrifice himself so she'd live), but that he couldn't bear to be without her (so they both had to live, and he wanted to save her without sacrificing anything of himself), so it wasn't an option.

While he was semi-concious in surgery, and consumed by the part of him that was Vader, and filled with rage at the "betrayal" by Padme and Obi-Wan, I'd say Vader, not even with a conscious choice, just pure rage-filled id, reached out to Padme just as when he attacked her earlier and started pulling life out of her like a vampire, his wounded pride and need for her combining into something utterly toxic and evil.

(I still would've had her live and pretend to be Bail's nanny or something so the RotJ line would make sense, but this read helps.)
 
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