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"The Wilderness Years": memories, discussions, videos and opinions.

Turtletrekker

Admiral
Admiral
It was the recent random appearance on my YouTube feed of "Downtime", starring Nicholas Courtney and Elizabeth Sladen, that triggered my current interest in "The Wilderness Years"

The Wilderness Years are a fascinating era to me. A time when, as with Star Trek, the fans kept the dream alive so much that the IP owner could not help but take notice and bring it back to life.

Star Trek fans kept the dream alive through fanzines, fanfictions and fan films. Doctor Who fans however, had options that were unavailable to Star Trek fans-- besides the officially licensed Big Finish audios, there were officially licensed straight to video movies based on the Doctor Who universe. They were unable to use, or even mention, the Doctor in these stories, but some of these productions used some very clever, borderline illegal, workarounds on this restriction.

There were two independent Studios developing the majority of these productions. Reeltime and BBV. Several of the Reeltime projects are available online, these include "Downtime", "Wartime" and "Shakedown: Return of the Sontarans".

I was able to find trailers for Downtime and Wartime on YouTube.

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"Wartime" (1988) was the first produced, and was actually made while Doctor Who was still on the air and featured UNIT regular Sergeant John Benton. This was apparently the first time the name John was ever spoken out loud in a live action production featuring the character. John Levine puts in a strong performance and we learn more about Benton in this little movie than we ever did on Doctor Who proper.

"Shakedown: Return of the Sontarans" (1994) came next. Honestly, I was iffy on this one at first, even though it features Carol Ann Ford and Sophie Aldred playing new characters (apparently they both had great fun playing against character type in this production). Elizabeth Sladen was originally intended to play the lead role but had to bow out. The character was instead played by Jan Chappell of Blake's 7. Written by Terrance Dicks, he apparently made most of the human characters rich and unlikable so no one would care if they were killed. (My brain: "'Alien' meets 'Dot and Bubble'. I'm in.") There is a moment when one of the characters mentions that he once learned about the Sontarans from someone called "The Physician" or "The Dentist" or something. Sneaky.

But, for me, Downtime (1995) is the crown jewel of the three I've managed to see. The story is nothing much, but the character moments make it worthwhile. When they made this movie they had no idea of its future importance as "the origin of Kate Lethbridge-Stewart", but even without that it's a story with tremendous heart and importance for the characters involved.

Reeltime also produced a sequel to "Downtime" featuring a returning Beverly Cressman as Kate Lethbridge Stewart called "Daemos Rising", sequel to The Third Doctor story "The Daemons". This one is not available on YouTube and reviewers say it is not as good as the first.

They also did a series of stories under the title "Mindgame" featuring the Sontarans. Sophie Aldred plays an unnamed human who apparently at one point reverses the polarity of the neutron flow because that's what "The Professor" would have done. Sneaky.

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Reeltime produced a couple more after that, but they were post wilderness years. They featured elements of "The Daemons" and "Mindscape"

The stuff produced by BBV is where it gets very strange.

They produced a series called "The Stranger" starring Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant as "The Stranger and Miss Brown", a barely disguised, serial numbers filed off knock off of the Sixth Doctor and Peri stories, as well as a number of likewise barely disguised audio stories under "The Time Travelers" banner featuring "The Professor and Ace" portrayed by Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred.

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Continued on next post.
 
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Continued...

BBV also did the P.R.O.B.E series featuring Caroline John as returning Third Doctor companion Liz Shaw. By all the accounts I was able to find, these weren't very good but I think I would still like to see them all the same. Although, I think the former Doctors constantly turning up in different roles would pull me out of the story every time.

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BBV's Auton trilogy was originally supposed to be a Reeltime production featuring Nicholas Courtney and Beverly Cressman returning as the Lethbridge-Stewarts. When Reeltime found themselves unable to produce the project, they passed it on to BBV. Nicholas Courtney soon bowed due to health issues and the Lethbridge-Stewart's were written out entirely. I would love to see the alternate reality where the wilderness years were ruled by the continuing adventures of the Lethbridge-Stewart's.

Apparently, at one point, a character in the "Auton" stories makes mention of the scientific works created by a UNIT scientific advisor by the name of "Dr John Smith". Sneaky.

I was also surprised to read that Nicholas Courtney was bowing out of projects due to health issues as early as this. Wikipedia says that he suffered from clinical depression, which put some real perspective into it for me regarding his subsequent cancellations of Doctor Who appearances.

Sadly, without Courtney's involvement to lend legitimacy to the project, this one comes off as a little schlocky to me.

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BBV also produced the reportedly achingly bad "Cyberons", featuring obvious Cyberman ripoffs...

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... And it's sequel, "Zygon: When Being You Isn't Enough", which I saw described online as "soft core porn with Zygons".

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That's an eclectic collection of content. For those of you who lived through this era, what was your opinion of this stuff? Was it like ambrosia to the masses, or were fans indifferent? Some of it seems interesting, but a lot of it looks like absolute schlock, with some of it bordering on copyright infringement.

No matter what the quality of the final product, you can't deny the love that went into these projects. A time when the fans ruled the roost. Definitely an interesting time in Whovian history.
 
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And I would be remiss if I didn't mention a few projects that had nothing to do with Reeltime or BBV, some of which were actually produced by the BBC itself.

There was, of course, "Doctor Who: The Movie" starring Paul McGann, the first attempt at ending the wilderness years.

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There was the much reviled Dimensions in Time, a short done for charity and the 30th anniversary.

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I'm not as hard on this one as some people are. It wasn't meant to be a serious attempt at Doctor Who, it was meant to raise money for children and it was reportedly very successful at that.

There was the hilarious Comic Relief special, "The Curse of the Fatal Death" ...

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... and the original attempt at continuing Doctor Who with a Ninth Doctor, "Scream of the Shalka".

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Apart from the Cushing movies and the odd classic VHS tape, and the 1996 movie, once Who went off the air i was done with it, and i only got back into it when it came back in 2005, then a year later the best thing ever happened, the restoration DVDs started to be released and i really got back into the classic series in a big way, and that is still going today for the classic show with the animated lost episode releases, plus now i am slowly adding the BR classics boxsets and to my collection................i cannot believe it has been almost 20 years since the first restoration dvd was released. :eek:
 
This is the first I've heard of these. For me, the "wilderness years" meant fanfiction, both reading it and writing it. Somewhere in my old writing notes, I've got the start of a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover focusing on Romana, K-9, and Transporter Chief Kyle (since Romana's TARDIS materialized in his quarters). And no, I don't care what the audio adventures say about Romana. I never had access to those, so for me they don't exist.

Hm. "Dimensions in Time"... the plot made no sense, but it was fun seeing the old companions. The only one I didn't recognize was Nyssa.

Rowan Atkinson would have made a fantastic Doctor in the actual series.

Apart from the Cushing movies and the odd classic VHS tape, and the 1996 movie, once Who went off the air i was done with it, and i only got back into it when it came back in 2005, then a year later the best thing ever happened, the restoration DVDs started to be released and i really got back into the classic series in a big way, and that is still going today for the classic show with the animated lost episode releases, plus now i am slowly adding the BR classics boxsets and to my collection................i cannot believe it has been almost 20 years since the first restoration dvd was released. :eek:

I gave up on nuWho in Capaldi's second season. I did watch the Christmas special that year since it included the First Doctor, but haven't watched anything since. I was just so disgusted with the dumbed-down writing and the constant extoling of Saint Clara, the Worst Companion Ever (even worse than Mel).
 
I've wanted to watch the Reeltime films for years but never had an opportunity to do so. Like you, I recently had  Downtime pop up in my YouTube feed and I plan to watch it when I have the chance, especially since it's the one I've wanted to watch the most.

I was a kid/teenager/young adult during the Wilderness Years so my experience is different from older fans. I grew up watching mostly Tom Baker and Sylvester McCoy on PBS and rewatching VHS recordings from the channel. I didn't start watching the others until late in the Wilderness Years, after the McGann film. I didn't even discover Big Finish until 2009, well after the show returned.

Dimensions in Time is a weird one and I've mostly ignored it since I just don't have the subcultural connection with EastEnders. But I've always loved and always will love The Curse of the Fatal Death. Pure satirical bliss made out of love for the show.

I do distinctly recall watching and variously enjoying the stop-motion animation films, particularly Scream of the Shalka and especially  Shada. For a long time, that version of Shada was the only story I knew of McGann. As a result it's always held a special place in my heart, even after listening to far better Big Finish audios with McGann and after the proper completion of the original serial with new animation.

I wish we had gotten more of those weird, off-kilter, daring stop-motion animations, but of course the show's return quickly put an end to them, alas. I still hold out onto hope for Doctor Who to delve seriously into animation, like Star Trek and Star Wars, beyond outliers like The Infinite Quest (which I love) and  Dreamland (which i found drab and disappointing). But that's a discussion for another thread.

As for the comics and books, I simply didn't have access or even knowledge of them until well after the fact because I live in America. Besides, I was too busy consuming all of the Star Trek books at the time (at least during the Marco Palmeiri years).

Shockingly, I still haven't watched the Cushing films. I really need to fix that...
 
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It's funny, even though Dr. Who was no longer in production, there were no "wilderness years" for me because my local PBS station had the series in constant rotation on Saturday night.
Initially it was only the Tom Baker through Sylvester McCoy years, then, thanks to pledge drives, they managed to aquire every complete BBC serial starting with 'An Unearthly Child' and aired them in order.
At one point my local Barnes and Noble had at least two or three shelves of Virgin's 'New Adventures' and 'Missing Adventures', but I never purchased any as I was too busy with Star Trek.
 
"Downtime" complete movie..

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Making of..

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And video release / first screening...

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Fellow BBSer @diankra actually had a small role in this movie. I imagine the "making of" video will bring back some more memories.
 
"Wartime" complete movie, with an uncredited voice cameo from Nicholas Courtney as an unnamed superior officer of unspecified rank. Better to not have to pay to use the Brigadier character when the fans will connect the dots all by themselves in their heads. Sneaky.

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"Shakedown: Return of the Sontarans" complete movie and making of...

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As for the comics and books, I simply didn't have access or even knowledge of them until well after the fact because I live in America.
Not even the Target novelizations?

As soon as I realized I was hooked on the show (partway through Stones of Blood, the 2nd story I'd ever seen, Pirate Planet being the first), I promptly scoured every bookstore in my city for the Target novelizations. And after that I pestered my new bookseller to order in the rest of them. The owner looked at me and said he could only get them in batches of 25, and would I really buy 25 Doctor Who books at $3.95 each?

I told him yes, definitely, and so that's how I got most of the ones I hadn't found.

As for the later novels, I got most of the ones I have either from a different bookstore, or from eBay.
 
I only really became a fan of Doctor Who in the Wilderness years. Somehow I ended up reading novelisations at my school library, and it's funny how much I had to guess where I was in the timeline, what the status quo was, and make sense of who was Who. From The Chase, to Web of Fear, to Mawdryn Undead, to Silver Nemesis all occurring in my head all around the same time. Somehow I had a crush on Ace yet I only ever saw her in prose! "The Five Doctors" was pretty much the first episode I ever saw on VHS and it was still like watching an Avengers teamup. I saw the 1996 film and that wasn't bad but felt a lot different than the books, sort of had a more supernatural feeling to me.
Nowadays my first thought of the Wilderness Years is "Alien Bodies" and the War in Heaven. I'm really fond of the ideas that came out of that book.
 
Not even the Target novelizations?
Sadly, no, but I did inherit a big stack of them from my grandfather when I was in high school. However, for whatever reason, I never bothered to read them at the time (probably because of the aforementioned focus on Trek novels). I know they're still in a box somewhere...
 
Sadly, no, but I did inherit a big stack of them from my grandfather when I was in high school. However, for whatever reason, I never bothered to read them at the time (probably because of the aforementioned focus on Trek novels). I know they're still in a box somewhere...
You should read the ones written by Ian Marter (who played Harry Sullivan). He was an excellent writer, and expanded the storyline of The Sontaran Experiment (the actual story was only 2 episodes long instead of the usual 4). He also wrote an original novel called Harry Sullivan's War.
 
This is the first I've heard of these. For me, the "wilderness years" meant fanfiction, both reading it and writing it. Somewhere in my old writing notes, I've got the start of a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover focusing on Romana, K-9, and Transporter Chief Kyle (since Romana's TARDIS materialized in his quarters). And no, I don't care what the audio adventures say about Romana. I never had access to those, so for me they don't exist.

Hm. "Dimensions in Time"... the plot made no sense, but it was fun seeing the old companions. The only one I didn't recognize was Nyssa.

Rowan Atkinson would have made a fantastic Doctor in the actual series.



I gave up on nuWho in Capaldi's second season. I did watch the Christmas special that year since it included the First Doctor, but haven't watched anything since. I was just so disgusted with the dumbed-down writing and the constant extoling of Saint Clara, the Worst Companion Ever (even worse than Mel).

I think of the Who in this manner, the real show is the classic era, done and dusted, from Hartnel to McCoy, set in stone, and i will throw in the 1996 movie into the classic era, so then the 2005 reboot for me is like a spin off, or to put it in todays modern who terms, it's like sideways spin off, where some one hit the side of the classic era and out came the 2005 reboot, and that works for me as i can easily just dodge the spin off totally, or take some bits but leave other bits, without it having any impact on the classic era, and that works for me great. :)
 
You should read the ones written by Ian Marter (who played Harry Sullivan). He was an excellent writer, and expanded the storyline of The Sontaran Experiment (the actual story was only 2 episodes long instead of the usual 4). He also wrote an original novel called Harry Sullivan's War.
Oh, I know. They just slipped through the cracks. Only so much time to read everything.
 
It's funny, even though Dr. Who was no longer in production, there were no "wilderness years" for me because my local PBS station had the series in constant rotation on Saturday night

My experience was pretty much the opposite. WFSU sopped playing the weekday episodes by, maybe 1986, '87, I'm not sure, reducing airings to just Saturday night of the "omnibus" ("movie" edits). By the late 80s, the affiliate ceased those as well, leaving Georgia Public Broadcasting (GPB) to supply the "demand', sticking with its Saturday night "movie" styled edits. which it had done since 1984. But, only a year or two, certainly by 1992, the Atlanta based PBS affiliate stopped airing DW all together, concluding which, aptly enough "Survival".

So my personal "wilderness years" were almost in sync with what UK based fans experienced, offset by only a couple of years.
 
The Wilderness Years are definitely an interesting period. I'm an American and wasn't even born when Classic Who went off the air (born in 1990) and my local PBS never showed it, at least not after it ended, so I had no idea Doctor Who even existed until literally years after NuWho started. Seeing how the franchise managed to survive in the inbetween years is very interesting, even if the actual products seem a bit mixed quality wise.

I was surprised to see that various companies made over 100 various Doctor Who novels between 1991 and 2005 (The Virgin New Adventures and then Eight Doctor adventures series, among others), thats a lot of book content for a franchise that was seemingly dead. It feels like I rarely hear anything about those books, except for maybe Human Nature (because it got loosely adapted in NuWho) and Lungbarrow (because of Cartmel Masterplan stuff). It seems like an interesting part of the franchise, although not very accessible to US fans.
 
I think of the Who in this manner, the real show is the classic era, done and dusted, from Hartnel to McCoy, set in stone, and i will throw in the 1996 movie into the classic era, so then the 2005 reboot for me is like a spin off, or to put it in todays modern who terms, it's like sideways spin off, where some one hit the side of the classic era and out came the 2005 reboot, and that works for me as i can easily just dodge the spin off totally, or take some bits but leave other bits, without it having any impact on the classic era, and that works for me great. :)
Yep. Just as Star Trek, for me, is TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager, Doctor Who is 1963-1996, Hartnell through McGann.

The rest is just reboot/spinoff stuff that mostly doesn't appeal to me, though I will admit that I like Tennant and Capaldi as actors. The writing got progressively worse as the seasons (and Doctors) went on. I don't like Smith at all.
 
Its funny, the first Doctor Who episode I watched was Rose, after which I went through all the NuWho there was at the time (2013, pre-Day of the Doctor), but I think in my heart I'm more of a Classic Who fan. Don't get me wrong I like a lot of NuWho, 11 is my second favorite Doctor (after the 6th) and I think that Capaldi was a great Doctor who wasn't given material worthy of him most of the time (I also like 9 and 10/14, but they're below several other Doctors for me). But Classic Who just feels different, in a way I generally prefer.

I don't think its any one element that puts the classic era ahead for me, its a bunch of things. I've definitely gotten tired of the "Special/Impossible Girl" style companions in nuWho, and I do get annoyed at how NuWho takes the attitude of "It doesn't matter if its stupid or makes no sense, because its Doctor Who!" so often nowadays. Not that there isn't stupid and goofy stuff in Classic Who, but the show in general seemed to take the events happening much more seriously when the situation called for it, even green bubble wrap could be deadly and you'd take it seriously.
 
I did watch Doctor Who in the 80s, I have a vague memory of the end of Logopolis though I reckon that was the five faces repeat rather than the original showing as I was very young. I definitely watched Davison but we were an A-Team household and I don't remember Colin Baker particularly.

I don't really properly remember it until McCoy though and I don't remember really noticing when it got cancelled.

My Dad owned the Tardis tin edition of Trial Of A Timelord and I watched the McGann TV movie but it wasn't until a year or so later that I really became a big fan.

That was a combination of my first boyfriend being a big fan, buying DWM 265, the first big poll of all stories, finding videos of Who in my local library and video rental shop and finding lots of New and Missing Adventures on sale in Forbidden Planet.

That got me pretty obsessed, with the Fouth and Fifth Doctor being my main focus. Talons Of Weng Chiang and Castrovalva were the stories that really kickstarted my interest.

My dad had UK Gold so I asked him to video Who from there and then the DVDs and soundtracks got me into the 60s stories.

I took a long time to get into Big Finish, I had the odd story but it was Janet Fielding joining full time that made me a regular subscriber.
 
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