The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous.

[enterprisecvn65]

So I like TUC and think it's a quality film overall. But I REALLY have one major bone to pick as far as the plot goes and that when they hatch the plan to trap Valeris and expose her (rim shot) role in the conspiracy.

I've read threads about why Valeris was dumb enough to fall for it. What I want to know is why was it even in the film in the first place? The whole was so illogical and made no sense on so many levels that I can't believe not a single writer said "This is really bad, we need to come up with another scene."

OK so after Kirk is rescued from the Klingon prison and they find Samno and Burke dead, Kirk obviously whispers into Spock's ear that he is almost positive Valeris is in on it and Spock seems to think it's logical and he agrees.

So if they were both almost certain why not just arrest Valeris, throw her in a cell and have Spock do his forced mind meld thing on her If she's guilty, great. If it turns out she's innocent.....then oh well shit happens, this is a serious situation that needed to be uncovered urgently we had strong reason to believe you were involved, this is the military, and we had to make a judgement call and we were wrong, sorry. Have a promotion to commander on us.

But no they have to "prove" her complicity so they go with the hatch a plot to catch her red handed bit.

So an announcement is played over the ships PA system that a recorder is needed in sick bay for deathbed statements from Samno and Burke. First of all, that is suspicious as hell. How many times in Star Trek have they played an announcement ship wide so everyone can hear it calling for one specific person? I don't remember any unless it was for Kirk.

And why would they need to specifically mention Samno and Burke when all they had to say "Recorder please report to sick bay immediately". Unless they WANTED someone SPECIFIC to think the two were still alive. So almost anybody who was guilty and had any brains, especially a Vulcan who graduated at the top of her class, would think "Hmmmmmm this whole thing smells fishy to me, I should just act normal and hope it was a ruse."

But no, apparently Valeris suddenly becomes stupid and illogical after she hears the announcement and thinks "Shit....I didn't kill them with the phaser stun shots and not only are they still alive but they're also conscious and able to communicate and will most likely spill the beans about everything....I gotta get down there and stop it."

So what was her plan exactly? Logic would dictate that if there were 2 crew members in extremely critical condition the sick bay would be full of people. McCoy would be there, and if the Enterprise had another doctor he or she would be there too. There'd probably be at least 3-4 nurses or medical assistants. Because it was an obvious attempted murder there'd be at least a couple of security guards, maybe more. The recorder would be there and because of the situation they're in Kirk and/or Spock themselves may very well be down there too. So it's almost certain that at least 10-12 people are going to be there.

What was she going to do? Go in there guns blazing hoping she could kill everybody in the room before someone got to her. She can't go in firing on kill setting because, as was established earlier, an alarm will go off. So she's going to get within a foot of everyone one at a time to fire stun at close range to kill them all, before finishing off Samno and Burke and not be noticed and overpowered by the others in the room? And even if she had some secret Batmanesque powers where she could engage 12 people at once did she really think she was going to be able to kill them all, including possibly the ship's captain and first officer, and somehow keep it all a secret?

Well apparently that was her plan because she goes to sick bay phaser in hand (she didn't even bother to go in with one in each hand which would have been logical considering the odds she should have been expecting to be facing) but miracle of miracles the entire sick bay is deserted and completely dark!!!!! Except a couple of beds that have people in them which she assumes must be Samno and Burke.

Now, again being the logical creature she is, this should have been totally illogical. I'm assuming as soon she heard the announcement over the PA she didn't decide to go and get a sandwich and a latte before dealing with this, she grabbed the first phaser she could find and hustled down to sick bay, so at most only a few minutes elapse from the announcement to her arrival at sick bay.....and within that few minutes apparently everyone has left and turned off the lights. So what are the possibilities?

1. They got the statements they wanted from Samno and Burke, they were able so keep them from dying and now they're monitoring their progress.......yet they all apparently decided, now that the two were stable, it was time to knock off for lunch and left two attempted murder victims completely unattended in a pitch black room. No doctor, no security, no nurses.....and not only that; they got their statements, got them stabilized and all left within a matter of a few minutes.

2. Samno and Burke died and may or may not have made statements incriminating Valeris. But, apparently after they flatlined everyone just decided to up and leave and leave their bodies lying in regular medical bay beds in a completely dark room. Again all of this happening within a matter of a few minutes.

3. So if it wasn't obvious by now....it's a trap of some kind yet Valeris sees nothing illogical about any of this and approaches the beds and lo and behold it's Spock and Kirk catching her red handed!!!!! Just like they planned.

As a side note I know they did it to show how affected Spock was by her betrayal, but him getting angry and slapping a phaser pointed at him out of her hand is pretty illogical. Odds are her finger was on the trigger and there's a chance that the jarring of having it slapped out of her hand might cause her finger to pull the trigger........

I don't blame Valeris for being stupid and falling for such an obvious ruse. I blame the writers for coming up such an unbelievable and quite frankly stupid sequence.

If she was some bumbling fool like Otis in Superman the plan would have been a little believable, but she was a Vulcan for God sakes, and apparently an exceptionally intelligent one judging from her valedictorian status at the academy, yet she falls for a set-up that is completely illogical and unintelligent on so may levels. Could she be absolutely sure it was a trap....no, but there were several occasions where her logic and intellect should have realized the whole didn't seem right and odds were it was some set up and the logical thing to do would for her to have just carried on as usual like she knew nothing.

I'm not a writer but honestly there must have been a more clever and believable way to do the "Caught in the Act" ploy she couldn't have anticipated, if that was they way they were determined to go.

As it was it would have made more sense to just waterboard her until she talked than the ridiculous plan they created and had her fall victim to.

Like I said I like TUC and think it's good film and a classy way to send off the original cast (Until Shatner, Doohan and Koenig ruined it in Generations) something a lot of series fail to do. But sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade and this sequence is one of the most inexplicable and worst written in the series IMHO.

 

[dub]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

I agree, there are any number of ways they could have written a better/more logical scene. I don't feel as passionately about it as you though, because while it doesn't exactly "make sense," it's still enjoyable for me to see Spock and Kirk pop up out of the sick beds and scare the hell out of Valeris.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

I agree, there are any number of ways they could have written a better/more logical scene. I don't feel as passionately about it as you though, because while it doesn't exactly "make sense," it's still enjoyable for me to see Spock and Kirk pop up out of the sick beds and scare the hell out of Valeris.

You're right it does have that certain "Gotcha!" element to it, but the lead up to it is just so unbelievable.

I understand in films sometimes you have to make leaps of faith or accept things you normally. But it's like temperature falling to me.

If the temp drops into the 40's, 30's and even 20's I may not totally like it, but I can manage it ok and not let it bother me. But when you start talking 10 and below, then it really starts to become uncomfortable and every degree it drops is just that more unpleasant.

Some scenes have things that are like the first part. Not something I really like, but whatever I can continue on with little problem.

But the Valeris scene to me was like hitting below zero on the therometer with a wind chill of -30. I just can't say "Oh well a little unpleasant but no biggy, it was just crap that I can't ignore or rationalize."

The good part was the movie wasn't filled with scenes like this (I'm looking you're way Star Wars Episodes I-III) and it didn't ruin the movie, but it wasn't well done at all and I just had to call it out.

 

[dub]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

I hear you. Some of the Trek films were lukewarm or dipped into freezing temperatures here and there. But the only Trek film that went below zero for me was STID. And even then, it wasn't the whole film. Much of the beginning of the film was pleasant to sizzling summer! But when the film went below zero, it stayed there for so long that I haven't been brave enough to return yet.

 

[EnriqueH]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

The conspiracy was the weakest part of TUC, and unfortunately for the movie, it takes up a good amount of time in the film.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

The conspiracy was the weakest part of TUC, and unfortunately for the movie, it takes up a good amount of time in the film.

I don't think the conspiracy itself was all that weak, but the way it unraveled sure as hell was. The writers just had so many holes in it's amazing noone said "Whoa...I know this is sci-fi, but we gotta make how they figure this thing out a LITTLE plausible."

I'll try to keep it short, and fail miserably, but just to recap the holes.

1. Why kill the two in the first place. At this point pretty much everyone the Enterprise is still a potential suspect, despite Kirk's belief about Valeris. You kill these two and now the pool becomes much smaller and you give Kirk and Co. something to work with. I doubt either of the two were going to have an attack of conscience and run to the bridge and admit the whole thing. By killing them you give the other side more evidence and increase the chance of being caught.

2. Kirk was positive it was Valeris. The fact his own recording was used against him being the prime reason, whether there were other reasons wasn't made clear. But if that's his only reason it's still a pretty damn strong one. How could the Klingons have goetten him saying that.....Well either 1. someone knew he said it in that particular log and downloaded it somehow and got it to Chang or 2. Someone was in his vicinity with a recording device of their own......both of which scream with a big neon sign "VALERIS!!!!" since she was the only around at that moment. I doubt someone would have been able to go looking through all his personal logs on the off chance he badmouthed the Klingons and his lack of trust in them. Odds are they were protected somehow and any extended snooping would set off alerts of unauthorized access. But if someone knew the exact one he said something they might be able to get it copied quickly enough and pull it off......hmmmmmmmm who was close enough know that.

3. So whatever he tells Spock makes him pretty convinced, remember Spock is a man of logic who doesn't go with his gut he instinct, so the fact he agreed would indicate Kirk had a pretty logical reason or reasons. Also due to his close ties to Valeris personally I don't Spock would have let Kirk sway him with some half cocked theory that may or may not be true.

4. So based on the suspicion on the two senior officers I would that's plenty of reason to put Valeris in cuffs and haul her off to be interrogated. Hook her up to whatever advanced lie detection device they have, let Kirk question her and if she doesn't talk and Kirk thinks she's lying then have Kirk say "Well we tried it the easy way, then have a darkened part of the room light up and there Spock, ready to do his thing, and have a look of sheer horror on Valeris' face as she realize what's about to happen.

And spare me this "Mind rape" crap. It wasn't like Spock was screwing her brains out telepathically. He was reading her thoughts to get info which he's done many times before with no ill effects. It was her resistance to it that caused her pain, like if I was holding a briefcase full of secrets that I wouldn't let go of (pretend I'm REALLY strong) and a bunch of feds take me down and pry it out and break my hand in doing so. Wasn't their fault, if I hadn't resisted there would have been no pain. If she had nothing to hide she could have let him probe her mind like he'd done to other before, but she resisted because she was guilty and forced Spock to push harder causing the pain. So this whole "Spock raped her mentally" is for idiots.

But no the fact she's the prime suspect in something that could lead to all out war if it's not stopped soon isn't reasonable cause enough. They have to catch her "red handed". It sounds like a couple of undercover narcs saying "We think it's him who's the main dope dealer, but we gotta catch him in the act to be sure we get a conviction." And then setting up a sting to do so.

Then keep in mind all of the following happen involving a extremely intelligent and logical person.

* An announcement is made saying a recorder is needed for statements from Samno and Burke. Why would they play that over the ship's entire PA system when a recorder would probably be easy to locate if you checked the duty roster?
Why make the announcement at all.....you mean there isn't a single audio or video recording device in the sick bay? A recorder McCoy takes medical notes on? The tricorder can't record voice. It can tell when a planet's core is unstable for god sakes. Hell if it was today everyone would whip out their iphones and record their statements. These future thinking writers didn't think that in 300 years recording devices would probably be as common as pens? Is there a regulation that a person specifically licensed to record statements has to do it or it's invalid.
But since they did make the announcement why add the unnecessary info that it was Samno and Burke? What would that matter....unless it was they wanted a VERY SPECIFIC PERSON to know who they were and think they were alive and able to talk. Gee who that be?

So even if Valeris isn't on to the ploy by now, which she should be if she's as bright and logical as we're led to believe. What's her plan. Surely sick bay is crawling with people, I'm just going to bust in, kill everyone including the two and walk out like nothing happened and noone near by is going to hear or see anything? No that's so illogical and stupid it's almost hilarious to contemplate doing.....whoops guess not apparently it was the logical thing to do because that's her course of action.

Oh thank god though, the sick bay is completely deserted and dark except for two guys in bed who must be Samno and Burke so I can finish them off this time and cover it all up, amazing since only minutes ago they were making announcements and sick bay must have been a flurry of activity with all the people there. Guess they finished and knocked off though in the two minutes it took me to get down here.......Totally logical.

Come on. Even Jar Jar Binks could have figured out he was being set up. If it was me I'd realize it was most likely a trick and go nowhere near sick bay and hope they think they were wrong and leave me alone. Even if it wasn't a trick there's nothing I can do to stop it, so if I go there to try I have a 100% chance of being caught because I'm either walking into a trap or if it's real there are so many people down there it's impossible for me to kill them and not be immediately overpowered by a dozen or more people. If I stay away there's a less than 100% chance they might think they were wrong and leave me alone long enough for me to escape or something.

I'm no Vulcan but taking the course of action that is less than 100% chance of being caught seems the only logical course of action.

Well whatever. Like I said a mild cold snap I can handle, but when it gets to zero I can't pretend it doesn't suck when I go outside.

A little mistake or two I can ignore, but to completely drop all pretense of logic and common sense in springing this trap.....Sorry can't pretend it isn't crappy movie writing.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

^The first rule of assassination is to kill the assassins, as a means of preventing them from talking. Although it's unlikely either would have admitted to having killed Gorkon out of guilt, it's not implausible that either one or both would have implicated Valeris in order to avoid a death sentence (by the Klingons) or to secure a deal with less prison time attached.

Regarding Kirk's knowledge of Valeris' involvement, he certainly suspected her of having recorded his log entry, but he didn't have any proof of her complicity in Gorkon's murder. Suspicion is not enough to arrest someone, particularly in an organization like the Federation, which places a high priority on respecting the rights of the accused. The Klingons didn't make a such a distinction for either Kirk or McCoy, but their judicial system appears to function differently than that of the UFP.

The ship-wide announcement was likely something Kirk and Spock devised as a way to draw out the other conspirator(s) aboard the ship. The conversation between Kirk and Spock in the corridor was both brief and whispered; therefore, there's no way to know precisely what was said--beyond Kirk hypothesizing that Burke and Samno's killer may be drawn out if he or she believes the crewmen are still alive and may talk--but it's not necessarily a given that Kirk mentioned Valeris by name. She implicated herself by taking the bait and entering sickbay with a weapon.

I agree that the conspiracy wasn't well put together, as it's easily the weakest aspect of the film. But I don't have a problem with the way Kirk and Spock handled it. My problem has more to do with Valeris being aboard the Enterprise at all--something that should never have happened without Kirk's knowledge or permission. Non-canon materials indicate that Cartwright arranged her transfer, but the personnel move should have been discussed with Kirk beforehand; as Cartwright outranked Kirk, so it's unlikely Kirk could have vetoed her inclusion, but I find it hard to believe he'd have accepted someone aboard his ship whom he hadn't vetted himself.

--Sran

 

[2takesfrakes]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

As I understand it, Nimoy asked for the Sickbay scene where Valeris gets busted - it wasn't there in the original script. And you can sort of tell that, because of how she's on the bridge all of a sudden getting hounded and harassed, right after. It may be that Nick just didn't give a shit about the scene and just shoehorned it in there to shut Lenny up. Or, it's just as likely that they just didn't have the time they really needed to write or shoot it. There was an entire other script for STAR TREK VI, before Nick was called in to take over the project and he didn't use any of it, he just came up with his own. The whole movie seems very rushed, actually. Like that stupid dinner, which is only there to eat up time. It's a wasted opportunity, when so much exposition could've been covered and it just wasn't. Instead, there's a couple odd insults, a couple gross out moments and that's all. Nick's heart just didn't seem to be in this movie at all, now that I reflect on it, some more ...

 

[USS Crazy Horse]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

I understand the points made, but what really bugs me is that Valeris is the only bridge officer in the conspiracy, eludes that she has co-conspirators in the scene on the bridge ([FONT=Arial]VALERIS: 'My comrades will make sure all your ship-to-ship transmissions are Jammed.')[/FONT], so why did she risk her cover to "do the deed".
Surely she would be the highest ranking of the Enterprise conspirators, and in the most tactical position to inform her fellows in Starfleet and other places what the Enterprise/ Kirk is doing/ planning.
-In any case, it was poorly written. (I would say 'thought out', but I cannot honestly say that any thought really went into it).

Also, in finding that quote I've found a slight hole, Valeris makes that statement but later Kirk contacts Sulu for the location of the conference!?

 

[Maurice]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

As I understand it, Nimoy asked for the Sickbay scene where Valeris gets busted - it wasn't there in the original script. And you can sort of tell that, because of how she's on the bridge all of a sudden getting hounded and harassed, right after. It may be that Nick just didn't give a shit about the scene and just shoehorned it in there to shut Lenny up.

Or it may be that he felt a moment of confrontation was necessary.

In the 4/17/91 script the the scenes where the find Burke and Samno are numbered 135 and 136. 137 is on the bridge. All the business about and in the sickbay are scenes 136A, B. C and D. This supports those being late scene additions, but I don't have any of the earlier scripts to verify at which point they were added.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

^The first rule of assassination is to kill the assassins, as a means of preventing them from talking. Although it's unlikely either would have admitted to having killed Gorkon out of guilt, it's not implausible that either one or both would have implicated Valeris in order to avoid a death sentence (by the Klingons) or to secure a deal with less prison time attached.

Ah, so you bought the framing of Burke and Samno as assassins too, eh?

Just because they're the only other characters named in the story doesn't mean they had anything to do with it, after all ...

 

[Lance]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

I agree, there are any number of ways they could have written a better/more logical scene. I don't feel as passionately about it as you though, because while it doesn't exactly "make sense," it's still enjoyable for me to see Spock and Kirk pop up out of the sick beds and scare the hell out of Valeris.

Well there's our answer: it was Halloween, and Kirk and Spock have got a flair for the melodramatic.

 

[bbailey861]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

As I understand it, Nimoy asked for the Sickbay scene where Valeris gets busted - it wasn't there in the original script. And you can sort of tell that, because of how she's on the bridge all of a sudden getting hounded and harassed, right after. It may be that Nick just didn't give a shit about the scene and just shoehorned it in there to shut Lenny up.

Or it may be that he felt a moment of confrontation was necessary.

In the 4/17/91 script the the scenes where the find Burke and Samno are numbered 135 and 136. 137 is on the bridge. All the business about and in the sickbay are scenes 136A, B. C and D. This supports those being late scene additions, but I don't have any of the earlier scripts to verify at which point they were added.

This makes a lot of sense. This begs the question, then, why did Nimoy want these scenes added? Assuming it wasn't simply because he wanted more screen time it could have been because he didn't want the Enterprise crew to been seen simply accusing Valeris of treachery and forcing a mind meld without first having some sort of proof OR he felt the audience wouldn't accept getting to the mind meld point without first segueing into it somehow.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

During the forced mind meld Spock shouldve found out Valeris was actually Savvik who underwent face surgery.

 

[Timo]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

Are Sammo, Burke and Anton Karidian the only three Classic TREK characters not to disintegrate when kill-phasered?

We have no reason to think any of them would have been kill-phasered.

It's explicit in the movie that Burke and Samno were not - they were killed by "overuse" of the stun setting. It's something Trek got right here and in TNG "Samaritan Snare": nonlethal weapons aren't. It's a matter of dosage, and if it stuns, it also kills.

Here it killed youngish men in their prime. In TOS, a frail old man died - a distinct possibility even with the stun setting. We never learn what the setting used by Lenore Karidian was. She claimed she knew her way around a phaser, and earlier on she did manage to set one to self-destruct. But she grabbed this weapon from a guard who no doubt had it on stun, and we never saw her manipulate the settings in any way. Sure, her intent was to kill Kirk with it, but she might not have been able to pull that off in her agitated state of mind.

Apart from that, TOS and the TOS movies do feature a few phaser deaths that leave corpses. Kirk's never-before-or-after-seen orange blast on the surface of Genesis Planet in ST3:TSfS makes a Klingon go down and never recover. And Captain Tracey of "Omega Glory" infamy litters the ground with thousands of corpses (not seen but mentioned).

As for Valeris "falling" for the "trick", it's not really a matter of exposing her. She has two options at that point of the story: surrender, or kill everybody. The latter is what the conspirators clearly expect of her, and the only action that would serve the conspiracy. It must have been in her instructions: if exposure is around the corner, the Enterprise must be blown up or at least Kirk and his top officers slaughtered. Else all is lost and Klingons will rape Federation babies. What we learn from the scene is that she doesn't have the guts to choose, not until forcing herself to waltz into the obvious trap where the choice is basically shoved down her throat. It's easy to see why she would choose that route, painting herself in a corner that saves her life. And dramatically speaking, it establishes her as not really rotten to the core - apparently, she learned something from Spock's "follow your feelings, you damn fool" speech earlier on!

Why Kirk and Spock would choose to lay the "trap", though... That's the actual question here. They, too, must recognize the two options Valeris has. Do they want to test her resolve? That means risking everything: Valeris could walk down to Engineering and push enough buttons to send everybody to republic come. Do they have the bases covered? Is Valeris being tailed? Is her phaser remotely deactivated (or deactivable, with somebody hovering over the button for that)? Distinctly possible, and consistent with certain established Trek elements, but a bit lacking in motivation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

^The first rule of assassination is to kill the assassins, as a means of preventing them from talking. Although it's unlikely either would have admitted to having killed Gorkon out of guilt, it's not implausible that either one or both would have implicated Valeris in order to avoid a death sentence (by the Klingons) or to secure a deal with less prison time attached.

Regarding Kirk's knowledge of Valeris' involvement, he certainly suspected her of having recorded his log entry, but he didn't have any proof of her complicity in Gorkon's murder. Suspicion is not enough to arrest someone, particularly in an organization like the Federation, which places a high priority on respecting the rights of the accused. The Klingons didn't make a such a distinction for either Kirk or McCoy, but their judicial system appears to function differently than that of the UFP.

The ship-wide announcement was likely something Kirk and Spock devised as a way to draw out the other conspirator(s) aboard the ship. The conversation between Kirk and Spock in the corridor was both brief and whispered; therefore, there's no way to know precisely what was said--beyond Kirk hypothesizing that Burke and Samno's killer may be drawn out if he or she believes the crewmen are still alive and may talk--but it's not necessarily a given that Kirk mentioned Valeris by name. She implicated herself by taking the bait and entering sickbay with a weapon.

I agree that the conspiracy wasn't well put together, as it's easily the weakest aspect of the film. But I don't have a problem with the way Kirk and Spock handled it. My problem has more to do with Valeris being aboard the Enterprise at all--something that should never have happened without Kirk's knowledge or permission. Non-canon materials indicate that Cartwright arranged her transfer, but the personnel move should have been discussed with Kirk beforehand; as Cartwright outranked Kirk, so it's unlikely Kirk could have vetoed her inclusion, but I find it hard to believe he'd have accepted someone aboard his ship whom he hadn't vetted himself.

--Sran

Well how sure Kirk was is up for debate. What he whispered to Spock seemed to convince him so it must have been pretty strong and logical.
I understand starfleet tries to respect individual rights, but given the gravity of the situation involved and that they had to figure out things fast or it could possibly lead to an all out war that detaining Valeris with the suspision they had wouldn't be out of line. It's not like they would of waterboarded her or shocked her with a cattle prod. Like I said use whatever lie detector method is used in the 23rd century, have Kirk interrogate her. If she doesn't cooperate or still seems to be lying then have Spock meld with her. If she has nothing to hide the it'll be a harmless mind meld which Spock has done multiple times, if she resists and suffers pain as a result of Spock having to push harder......well then she was guilty and it's a small price to pay for preventing a war.

I don't think Starfleet command would have been calling for Kirk and Spock's asses because they didn't read her her Miranda rights or let her have a lawyer and so on. He's the captain, he had a strong suspicion, time was of the essence so he acted on it quickly, prevented a war and didn't do anything that could be called cruel or inhumane.

But like I said it was like some cop film where they can't just bust the drug dealer on their suspicions they have to catch him in the act for it to stick.

 

[Timo]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

What he whispered to Spock seemed to convince him so it must have been pretty strong and logical.

..But not necessarily specific. "This confirms our suspicions that one of the top officers is in on it. We have to find out who, Spockkam." "Indeed, Jim, Sir. May I suggest a harebrained plan?"

At that point, there was nothing pointing specifically to Valeris. Chekov was another likely candidate, as he was one of the two officers heavily involved in bumbling the investigation into Gorkon's death. Uhura and Scotty both shared Kirk's hatred of Klingons, at least on the level of racist speech, and both had their own type of access to the hardware that was sabotaged to enable the assassination (computer records, torpedo launchers). Scotty had spent his sweet time searching for evidence, too, conveniently only finding it when it no longer mattered.

Certainly our heroes wouldn't be above suspecting their longtime comrades. Valeris supposedly was Spock's, after all. And if it so obviously is an inside job, there's no point in limiting your investigations to scratching the surface.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

What he whispered to Spock seemed to convince him so it must have been pretty strong and logical.

..But not necessarily specific. "This confirms our suspicions that one of the top officers is in on it. We have to find out who, Spockkam." "Indeed, Jim, Sir. May I suggest a harebrained plan?"

At that point, there was nothing pointing specifically to Valeris. Chekov was another likely candidate, as he was one of the two officers heavily involved in bumbling the investigation into Gorkon's death. Uhura and Scotty both shared Kirk's hatred of Klingons, at least on the level of racist speech, and both had their own type of access to the hardware that was sabotaged to enable the assassination (computer records, torpedo launchers). Scotty had spent his sweet time searching for evidence, too, conveniently only finding it when it no longer mattered.

Certainly our heroes wouldn't be above suspecting their longtime comrades. Valeris supposedly was Spock's, after all. And if it so obviously is an inside job, there's no point in limiting your investigations to scratching the surface.

Timo Saloniemi

Valid points. I just have the impression that Kirk became convinced beyond doubt it was Valeris when he heard his log at the trial and that what was he said to Spock.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

I've always interpreted it as Kirk and Spock just hoping to catch the assassin and being surprised when it turns out to be Valeris.

Something like;

Kirk: Can I talk to you? *Whispers* If we were to make whoever was responsible for this think they were still alive, they might try and finish the job. We could lure them into a trap.

Spock: It's possible.

 

[Maurice]

Re: The Valeris "Trap" scene is just so poorly written it's ridiculous

Nah, Kirk is telling Spock about the log, hence "It's possible," and they decide to lay a trap... ill conceived as it might be.