The Squire of Gothos timeline

[CobraCommander]

Hi, According to the episode, Trelaine only knew of the Earth of 900 years before. Since it took 900 light years for images to travel to Trelaine's rock and he was re-enacting Napoleanic Europe, where the writers implying that Star Trek occured in the 27th Century?

P.S... I accept that TOS occured in the 2260's.

 

[Shatmandu]

Hi, According to the episode, Trelaine only knew of the Earth of 900 years before. Since it took 900 light years for images to travel to Trelaine's rock and he was re-enacting Napoleanic Europe, where the writers implying that Star Trek occured in the 27th Century?

P.S... I accept that TOS occured in the 2260's.

A wizard did it.

Joe, not it

 

[Outpost4]

The standard answer is when Star Trek was shot, Roddenberry did everything he possibly could to be vague about when it occurred. This includes undecipherable stardates and conflicting references like the one here versus a shorter one in Tomorrow Is Yesterday.

A more specific answer is that the 2260s date wasn't nailed down until much later. I'm sure somebody will come along and give us the exact reference.

The best answer is it doesn't matter. Star Trek happens in the future and that's all you need to know. More concrete than that and it spoils the fantasy/allegorical/morality tale side of the series.

Star Trek was never, ever, about hard science or hard dates. Later Treks tried to get into this world, I think mostly to their detriment.

 

[Kelso]

1) The time-frame of the series wasn't a priority of the producers ("The Time Could be 1995 or even 2995-" from GR's original outline which is reprinted in Whitfield's book)

2) Gothos is mobile.

3) Who cares?

 

[SiddFinch1]

The standard answer is when Star Trek was shot, Roddenberry did everything he possibly could to be vague about when it occurred. This includes undecipherable stardates and conflicting references like the one here versus a shorter one in Tomorrow Is Yesterday.

A more specific answer is that the 2260s date wasn't nailed down until much later. I'm sure somebody will come along and give us the exact reference.

The best answer is it doesn't matter. Star Trek happens in the future and that's all you need to know. More concrete than that and it spoils the fantasy/allegorical/morality tale side of the series.

Star Trek was never, ever, about hard science or hard dates. Later Treks tried to get into this world, I think mostly to their detriment.

It was a long time before Trek pinned down the time frame. I think it was not until STIV that it was officially th elate 23rd century and then TNG locking dates in. TOS had lots of references which didnt line up.

 

[Christopher]

2) Gothos is mobile.

Hmm, that's a good point I never considered before. Trelane could've been much closer when he made his observations of Earth.

Of course, his instruments would still have had to be amazingly powerful to discern individual people, foodstuffs, and events from 400 light-years away. Not to mention being able to see the interiors of buildings. So maybe he wasn't relying on optical instruments. Maybe he used some kind of FTL signal, but one that only travelled at about twice the speed of light. Or maybe he used a microwormhole generator but one that had a time displacement he failed to correct for.

Anyway, the answer to the original question is indeed that the show's makers didn't have a specific timeframe settled on.

 

[Timo]

I like the "Gothos is mobile" rationalization, too...

...However, when Spock speculates that Trelane based his knowledge of Earth on observations made by a telescope 900 lightyears from Earth, he was referring specifically to Trelane's turn of phrase, costume and furniture. And those certainly weren't from late medieval times, but rather from the 18th century.

So we can't argue that Trelane got some things from the 14th century and others from the 18th by moving his planet and telescope around. Instead, Spock was directly insisting that his today was 900 years after the 18th century, which isn't that easy to reconcile. The "a powerful telescope sees at double lightspeed" theory comes closest to making pseudo-sense, I guess.

I'd readily believe that Trelane's "mistake" was just due to him not caring, of course. Or him trying to be funny. No physics or logic need be involved there. But this doesn't address the real problem, of the great Spock making a silly mistake of his own... Perhaps he just doesn't know Earth history particularly well?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Doesn't Spock make his comment about Trelene's knowledge of the Earth coming from telescopic observation before Gothos chases them all over the sector?

 

[Timo]

Perhaps. But the comment is damning in itself:

"Notice the period, Captain. Nine hundred light years from Earth. It's what might be seen through a viewing scope if it were powerful enough."

And the ship was 900 ly away from Earth at the beginning of the episode, too.

However, I take back what I said about Spock here. After all, the above damning statement was not made by our favorite Vulcan, but by that imbecile Jaeger, whose expertise was said to be in impossible geophysics... The sap probably hasn't ever been to Earth, or bothered to read a history book about it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[shanejayell]

Didn't the novels retcon him as being a young Q? Could be he was just messing with their heads. *lol*

 

[ToddPence]

Taking the evidence of the original series itself seems to date the series some time during the twenty-second century. A few examples:

*In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" gary Mitchell quotes a love poem, states that it was written in the 1990's and then says that it is one of the most passionate sonnets "of the last couple of centuries".

*In "Tomorrow is Yesterday", when Kirk is back in time in the 1960's the Air Force base commander tells him he's going to lock him up "for two hundred years". Kirk says, "that ought to be just about right."

*In "The Savage Curtain", Scott says that Lincoln died "three hundred years ago".

 

[cooleddie74]

Hi, According to the episode, Trelaine only knew of the Earth of 900 years before. Since it took 900 light years for images to travel to Trelaine's rock and he was re-enacting Napoleanic Europe, where the writers implying that Star Trek occured in the 27th Century?

P.S... I accept that TOS occured in the 2260's.

At the time...at that point in TOS's first year...they had yet to firm up a rough date for the Enterprise's adventures. "WNMHGB" appeared to be set in the 23rd century, while other early offerings like this seemed to be set MUCH later. It wasn't until the first movies over a decade later, in fact, when there was canonical explanation on-screen for the Kirk era being set in the late 23rd century. Before then it was educated guesswork and supposition.

 

[Christopher]

Didn't the novels retcon him as being a young Q? Could be he was just messing with their heads. *lol*

One novel, Q-Squared by Peter David, was predicated on that premise. But that was contradicted when VGR established that the Q had never had children before. And it required a... selective interpretation of "The Squire of Gothos," since Trelane's powers were clearly shown to be largely dependent on technology and nowhere near the omnipotence of a Q. Indeed, aside from moving the planet Gothos around, Trelane didn't do a single thing that couldn't be accomplished with a transporter, a replicator, and a holodeck.

Taking the evidence of the original series itself seems to date the series some time during the twenty-second century. A few examples:

*In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" gary Mitchell quotes a love poem, states that it was written in the 1990's and then says that it is one of the most passionate sonnets "of the last couple of centuries".

*In "Tomorrow is Yesterday", when Kirk is back in time in the 1960's the Air Force base commander tells him he's going to lock him up "for two hundred years". Kirk says, "that ought to be just about right."

*In "The Savage Curtain", Scott says that Lincoln died "three hundred years ago".

On the other hand, "Metamorphosis" says that Zefram Cochrane disappeared 150 years earlier at the age of 87. That implies the show was meant to be significantly more than 200 years in the future, unless one was willing to assume that Cochrane was meant to invent warp drive within a decade or two after the show's initial broadcast.

Also, in ST:TMP, Will Decker said that Voyager 6, a probe that would've had to be launched after the 1979 release date of the film, had disappeared "over 300 years ago," which would put the film sometime later than 2280, probably closer to 2300. The line implied the late 23rd century, but didn't rule out the early 24th.

The century wasn't unambiguously locked down until TWOK opened with the caption "In the 23rd century."

 

[I am not Spock]

Yeah, the first definite time reference I can remember is TWOK's 'In the 23rd Century' caption.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, the first definite time reference I can remember is TWOK's 'In the 23rd Century' caption.

True. Although as early as TMP there was Decker's line about Voyager 6 having been launched 300 years ago, setting the film somewhat firmly in the late 23rd century.

 

[Christopher]

True. Although as early as TMP there was Decker's line about Voyager 6 having been launched 300 years ago, setting the film somewhat firmly in the late 23rd century.

As I pointed out above, he actually said "more than 300 years ago," and there was no indication of just how long after 1979 the fictional Voyager 6 probe might have been launched. So that made it the mid-2280s at the earliest, possibly as late as the 2330s or so. (And since the film is now assumed to take place in 2273, Decker's estimate is now a continuity error, or perhaps simply a misstatement by the character.)

 

[Zeppster]

Taking the evidence of the original series itself seems to date the series some time during the twenty-second century. A few examples:

*In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" gary Mitchell quotes a love poem, states that it was written in the 1990's and then says that it is one of the most passionate sonnets "of the last couple of centuries".

*In "Tomorrow is Yesterday", when Kirk is back in time in the 1960's the Air Force base commander tells him he's going to lock him up "for two hundred years". Kirk says, "that ought to be just about right."

*In "The Savage Curtain", Scott says that Lincoln died "three hundred years ago".

Space Seed implied it had been 200 years since the 1990s. That could be a little subjective and be in the mid 2200s if you wanted.

 

[Grant]

Perhaps. But the comment is damning in itself:

"Notice the period, Captain. Nine hundred light years from Earth. It's what might be seen through a viewing scope if it were powerful enough."

And the ship was 900 ly away from Earth at the beginning of the episode, too.

However, I take back what I said about Spock here. After all, the above damning statement was not made by our favorite Vulcan, but by that imbecile Jaeger, whose expertise was said to be in impossible geophysics... The sap probably hasn't ever been to Earth, or bothered to read a history book about it.

Timo Saloniemi

Agenda?

 

[Shatmandu]

Hi, According to the episode, Trelaine only knew of the Earth of 900 years before. Since it took 900 light years for images to travel to Trelaine's rock and he was re-enacting Napoleanic Europe, where the writers implying that Star Trek occured in the 27th Century?

P.S... I accept that TOS occured in the 2260's.

Trelane's powers, since he was young and unsure of them, warped space/time when he viewed the Earth.

Joe, simpler

 

[cooleddie74]

Noone ever said Decker was being PRECISE. Maybe he never got A's in history. But his estimate was close enough that most people could assume the first movie was set in the late 23rd century...give or take.