Spoilers Starfleet needs to revise its policies on "Augments"

[dswynne1]

I can understand human's apprehension on Augments, but a blanket ban on Augments, and augmentation at large, should be revised. There should be a difference between augmentation for the sake of adapting to an alien environment, and weaponized augmentation (ie. Khan Noonien Singh and his people). There should be a case-by-case review when looking at those individuals who are augmented, either because they had no say in the matter, or by necessity (i.e. trying to survive a conflict). After all, the basis for the creation of Terran Augments was to create an elite group for the sake of controlling others at the genetic level.

BTW, in my head cannon, "normal humans" no longer exist anyway, thanks to genetic damage caused by the nuclear exchanges during World War III, and the subsequent culling of damaged humans by Colonel Green's people. It also explains why young children can do Calculus and other high-end academics (see: TNG, "When the Bough Breaks"). Basically, a "standard human" replaced the previous human population, not at all dissimilar to how the Clone Troopers were created based on the genetic template of the Mandalorian Bounty Hunter Jango Fett from STAR WARS. They just weren't augmented to the level of Khan's people.

 

[shapeshifter]

Dropping/changing the term 'augment's' might soften the dangerous sound of them. Something medical which conveys thoughts of healing treatments rather than creating super people capable of breaking your neck with one hand. lol

 

[fireproof78]

I propose we write to Starfleet and demand a policy change!

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

It also explains why young children can do Calculus and other high-end academics

That's no big deal. When I was in first grade, they threw set theory on me, something my parents had never heard of. While I was in school, electronic calculators went from being expensive, bulky, and limited to basic arithmetic, to being cheap and ubiquitous, to being something built into cell phones (even clamshells like the one I carry), and from being forbidden in school, to being required in school. I had pre-algebra in the 8th grade, and pre-calc in my senior year of high school. I have little doubt that, freed from the drudgery of doing basic arithmetic and looking up logarithms and trig functions in printed tables, elementary school kids will be doing calculus, linear algebra, and other stuff that, for me, was University-level.

Note: I have never been good at arithmetic. So lousy that I was put in remedial 7th grade math, where I did even worse (thankfully, somebody had the insight to put me in pre-algebra -- enrichment level -- the following year). In 7th and 8th grade, I griped loudly when geometry chapters were skipped in math class, because it was the one area of elementary school math where I could shine. My lousy arithmetic was the reason why I barely squeaked through algebra and pre-calc, and why I had to repeat at least one semester of calc, and why I had to take linear algebra three times (the first two were from a so-called "easy" textbook, that concentrated on solving systems, and I failed both times; the third time was from a so-called "hard" textbook, that explored all areas of vector-space theory, got a week off when 3/4 of the class failed a test that I'd passed easily, and got through with an A.

 

[XCV330]

The Augment Ban is like Dune's ban on thinking machines. It allows the writers to concentrate on certain things and avoid the complicated issues of post-humanism (Star Trek) and AI (Dune).

Bluntly, most Trek writers, even the better ones currently on offer, would not be up to the task of post-humanism sf, so it will remain -Augment bad, pure human good, and all species are on he same developmental playing field "

 

[Oddish]

Augmentation to cure genetic issues is clearly allowed; the EMH didn't hesitate to fix Miral's spinal cord issue.

I think the issue with Bashir is one, his learning disability was probably not considered a condition needing correction (simple educational support probably would have worked), and his abilities were boosted to well above the human norm across the board, and tolerating that would set a very dangerous precedent. Allow such things enough, and your "Khan Singh waiting in the wings" will take center stage.

 

[DirectorSloan]

I think you could make the argument that at one point during the Dominion War they did, at least somewhat/temporarily. In the DS9 episode Statistical Probabilities StarFleet had Bashir work with a group of genetically engineered individuals to predict or help influence their actions in the Dominion War. Won't get into how the whole story played out. But relative to this thread, when it was "convenient" their genetic background was ignored.

 

[Oddish]

But were these "augments" in Starfleet, aside from Bashir?

Just because creating an augment is illegal and they're not normally permitted in Starfleet doesn't mean the Federation won't acknowledge their existence in general.

 

[1001001]

Stuff

This is a Prodigy spoiler. A very similar thread was already shut down because of this, and there are specific rules about spoilers: no open discussion (outside the series’ home forum) for 6 months from air date.

This topic is being addressed there, so everyone please keep Prodigy spoilers out of this forum.

Last reminder to all.

I am on my phone and can’t do everything I need to do, so for now I just added a spoiler tag until I can get to a computer. Sorry that’s the best I can do right now.

 

[Oddish]

You're right. My post has been purged of the offending material.

 

[1001001]

Thank you. I edited my quote of you as well.

Go forth and sin no more.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

The Augment Ban is like Dune's ban on thinking machines.

Actually, I always regarded the Dune franchise's ban on "thinking machines" and its open acceptance of mind-altering and body-altering drugs, assassination, and so forth, as a "moral eversion": it's morality isn't merely upside down, but inside out. Which is probably why I gave up on it after God Emperor . . . , and eventually dumped all my Dune books on the used book market.

I will note that genetically modified humans did show up in an early-Pocket ST novel, Vonda McIntyre's The Entropy Effect.

 

[Vger23]

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I guess when you don't know what they're capable of, or how they'll use their power, it's scary. But how is it any different from being scared of new technologies, or new religions? When you can make them do things that you can no longer control the outcomes, or what future people will do with the abilities (tech) or authority (religion).

 

[XCV330]

Actually, I always regarded the Dune franchise's ban on "thinking machines" and its open acceptance of mind-altering and body-altering drugs, assassination, and so forth, as a "moral eversion": it's morality isn't merely upside down, but inside out. Which is probably why I gave up on it after God Emperor . . . , and eventually dumped all my Dune books on the used book market.

I will note that genetically modified humans did show up in an early-Pocket ST novel, Vonda McIntyre's The Entropy Effect.

they're both decisions based on fear. And neither decision is particularly clear. Is there a baseline of how optimal a person's physical and mental capabilities should be and anything that goes beyond that is wrong?

They (UFP) already allowed creating genetic chimeras like Spock, that have no evolutionary basis. In some ways Paxton was just following the party line on augmentation when he saw the threat of the T'pol/Tucker baby. Any successful hybrid could have many of the traits of an augment. Spock has many capabilities that neither humans nor vulcans possess but seemingly no offset weaknesses beyond dealing with bigotry. A race of Spocks would make humans, vulcans and presumably Romulans redundant.

 

[Kor]

I wonder what would have happened if any of the departing colonists in "The Masterpiece Society" wanted to join Starfleet.

Kor

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Perhaps they would be told that they could best serve the fleet by signing up as experiments rather than crew? Or some facility like this, only for organics? https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Self-Aware_Megalomaniacal_Computer_Storage

 

[The Wormhole]

I think you could make the argument that at one point during the Dominion War they did, at least somewhat/temporarily. In the DS9 episode Statistical Probabilities StarFleet had Bashir work with a group of genetically engineered individuals to predict or help influence their actions in the Dominion War. Won't get into how the whole story played out. But relative to this thread, when it was "convenient" their genetic background was ignored.

Considering those particular individuals came to the conclusion that the Federation would lose the war and nearly leaked vital intel to the Dominion so they could defeat Starfleet and end the war, I don't think that provided a compelling argument for the Federation to reevaluate how they view Augments.

 

[Qonundrum]

Until now, I always maintained a cozy headcanon that human evolution would - of its own accord - make calculus at such a tender young age more feasible, given all the technology the century has at its command. It's one of the more noble aspects of season 1*. But all this time it's due to some git losing their Lego kit and using DNA instead.


* the same episode also shows children being less-than-perfect compared to the oh-so-perfect adults, as the kid was throwing tantrums over not wanting to learn something that a lot of high school kids circa 1987 didn't want to learn. Fast forward to 2020 when articles were griping about statistics in how apparently only slightly over half of high schools still teach this form of advanced mathematics. Possibly because the bulk of theorems and formulae are now in a computer application, and one only needs to feed it some values and - faster than a microwave cooking breakfast and/or Al Bundy - the results are ready. We've come a long way since the days of the Atari 2600 where its version of Chess required up to a mere ten hours for the console to decide its next move.

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Dang -- even kiddie tantrums are almost more evolved (or, if nothing else, scripted), and the end of that episode is even more syrupy saccharine than any given episode of "The Brady Bunch". If only that question of "Why?" was answered, but if I were to guess, a basic understanding of something may still have some practicality elsewhere, even if it's not instantly or directly related or realized.

https://www.cuemath.com/calculus/

Fascinating; it reminds me somewhat of object-oriented programming systems (OOPS for short...) One day I'll C#, but until then I still prefer Algebra. In another time and place, I'd prefer algae. Now where's that electron microscope? Also, did you ever hear the one where an electron and neutron went into a bar with a proton? You can guess who did the Neutron Dance...

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What, you think I was going to say the cornball punchline about which one had no charge? Maybe next week...

 

[NCC-73515]

From Statistical Probabilities:

O'BRIEN: Well, let's hope they don't become too productive. Might make the rest of us look bad.
WORF: It is not a laughing matter. If people like them are allowed to compete freely, then parents would feel pressured to have their children enhanced so that they could keep up.
ODO: That's precisely what prompted the ban on DNA resequencing in the first place.
BASHIR: Giving them a chance to contribute doesn't necessarily mean sanctioning what was done to them. They didn't ask to have their DNA tampered with. They were only children. And why should they be excluded just because their parents broke the law?
SISKO: You're right. It's not quite fair. But even so, it seemed like a good way to discourage genetic tampering.
O'BRIEN: Besides, it's not as if we're trying to exclude them from anything. We're just talking about limiting what they're allowed to do.
BASHIR: Like joining Starfleet.
WORF: Exactly.
BASHIR: Are you saying that I shouldn't be allowed to wear this uniform?
WORF: Well, you are an exception.
BASHIR: An exception. I should be used to that, I've been one all my life. First because of the DNA resequencing, and now because I've been allowed to join Starfleet.
WORF: Perhaps I should not have said anything.
BASHIR: No, it's all right.

That summarizes the problem pretty well: good points on both sides.