Star Trek Uniforms compared to Military Uniforms

[valkyrie013]

Hi all!
Surfing the internet, and came across an article on the ST2 red uniforms, and made me pause in thought.
So, being former marine, enlisted, I started thinking, What would the uniform system look like in starfleet.

So, you have your dress uniforms, in marine parlance, you have your Alphas ( dress jacket), Bravo's ( Long sleeve, tie, pants), and Charlies ( Short sleve dress shirt, no tie, pants). Then for field ship duty, you have your utility's ( Cammies). Most of the time, officers were in utilities, or some sort of dress, usually charlies.

For those who actually work, you have a flight suit, which is a uniform, name, rank on a patch, and for me as a maintence guy, had coveralls, just a one piece long sleeve coverall, similar to flight suit, with name and rank patch. Most people on the ship had coveralls on when at regular work.

So for starfleet.
You would have a dress uniform, with a jacket, ( similar to ST 2's red jacket) and a dress uniform with long sleeves. ( Except for bones, or that TNG Skant never seen any short sleeved uniforms in ST).
So to me, most of the officers would work, day to day, in some type of dress uniform, similar to charlies, or the beige type that the chief petty officers on the navy wear around. However, I would think for ship duty, those who were not working ( Work defined as engineering, maintence, something you'd wear a coverall for) would wear some type of utility, so similar to Enterprise's blue jumpsuit, or normal Tng jumpsuit. And beaming down, you'd prepare for whatever reason you'd be beaming down for. Ceremonial? Exploration? Cold, hot, etc. Geordi, and the whole engineering staff should have been wearing some type of coveralls when on duty, and wearing the "Utilities" when needed.
There are "Dress" uniforms in star trek, kirk, picard etc have worn them.

So just something going through my mind, wanted to share, and read any comments. I know Gene didnt want a "Military" in space for starfleet, however, its kinda how it turned out, atleast for ship board crews.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I think it's likely that Starfleet keeps the classes of uniform relatively simple.

Class A ("Mess Dress"): Most formal uniform, worn for "white tie events". Late TNG "tuxedo" uniform or similar.
Class B (Service Dress"): Everyday uniform for HQ staff, Diplomatic Corps and Flag Officers. Either "Monster Maroons" or TNG Era Admirals "choker" uniform. When worn with the jacket Class B is equivalent to "black tie" or "business dress", When worn without the MM jacket or with the standard TNG shirt (typical everyday wear for staff officers and enlisted personnel) it rates as "business casual".
Class C (Operational Dress): Everyday working uniform on most starbases and starships for junior/department officers and enlisted personnel, also worn by all ranks as a "field uniform" under typical situations. One piece coveralls or two piece "utilities". Compare ENT or DS9/VOY uniform or modern combat or working uniforms.

Additional enviromental or situational uniforms may be deployed if necessary.

 

[2takesfrakes]

STARFLEET costumes have always sucked. Their dress uniforms have sucked the absolute worst, out of all them. And Discovery is no better. They should've been based, much more, on the dress uniforms of today's military. They're much more crisp looking and much more "commanding," I feel ...

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/...summer_1_6f1a43f919c7fd180a99cb216ce6fa28.jpg

http://cdn.uniforms-4u.com/pd/5291/...ervice-dress-white-military-uniform-15825.png

 

[Commishsleer]

I agree the uniforms in Star Trek are generally awful. But they're iconic.
The best ones IMO are the Kelvin movie ones. Especially the skin-hugging wetsuit Karl Urban wore.
The Kelvin movies had the hats and were more military-like
Actually no skin tight ones really.
The only really practical ones were in ENT but those guys looked like they were mechanics.
I liked the landing party jackets in "The Cage" and in TWOK. I wish they had more of that.
I'm OK with all the dress uniforms.

 

[Mysterion]

The Trek series that got it right with uniforms was Enterprise. They are practical in design. The insignia are done well and serve to identify rank/department without the huge swaths of color of latre Starfleet uniforms that would not be good in a tactical situation.

The move-era "monster maroons" are not a good day-to-day work uniform. They would make a great Class-A/dress uniform, though. And although they had those field jackets, even the jackets had way too many geegaws all over them just waiting to get snagged on some thing in the field. Also the rank insignia in this genrration of uniforms is mostly useless - rank insignia should be immediately recognizable from a reasonable distance and those pins don't do it.

The TOS uniforms are pretty much iconic and I don't think I can detract from them too much Unless it's the practicality of trying hide from a giant lizard-man whie wearing a bright yellow shirt.

The TMP uniforms looked incredibly uncomfortable, but I like that there was a number of variations for various uses: long-sleeve, short sleeve (good for folks working in an "indoor" environment, the medical "scrubs", practical looking field jackets, and the very distinctive flag-officer uniform worn by Kirk at the beginning of he film.

The TNG/DSN/VGR era went through a number of variations, but I think the mostly-black unis with the grey shoulders were the best looking/sharpest of the bunch.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The move-era "monster maroons" are not a good day-to-day work uniform. They would make a great Class-A/dress uniform, though. And although they had those field jackets, even the jackets had way too many geegaws all over them just waiting to get snagged on some thing in the field. Also the rank insignia in this genrration of uniforms is mostly useless - rank insignia should be immediately recognizable from a reasonable distance and those pins don't do it.

Yeah, something like the UESF field jackets would be better, or the "pullover" used with the combat uniforms in TFF (black for everyday "Service Uniform", brown for "Combat Uniform").

As far as day-to-day goes, I once flirted with the idea of combining in the "Monster Marroons" with the Cage/WNMHGB uniforms, like so:

The black overtunic is actually the 'Captains Variant' from TOS proper but IMO it works better as a jacket than a shirt.

 

[J.T.B.]

Surfing the internet, and came across an article on the ST2 red uniforms, and made me pause in thought.
So, being former marine, enlisted, I started thinking, What would the uniform system look like in starfleet.

So, you have your dress uniforms, in marine parlance, you have your Alphas ( dress jacket), Bravo's ( Long sleeve, tie, pants), and Charlies ( Short sleve dress shirt, no tie, pants). Then for field ship duty, you have your utility's ( Cammies). Most of the time, officers were in utilities, or some sort of dress, usually charlies.

For those who actually work, you have a flight suit, which is a uniform, name, rank on a patch, and for me as a maintence guy, had coveralls, just a one piece long sleeve coverall, similar to flight suit, with name and rank patch. Most people on the ship had coveralls on when at regular work.

The closest to what you describe was in STTMP. In drydock they wore "Class A," long sleeves with officer cuff rank, similar to USN quarterdeck watch in port. When they got underway, they changed to "Class B," lighter-weight short or long sleeves with shoulder rank, comparable to wash khakis and dungarees in my day (I'm old). Kirk wore a dressier uniform "ashore," there were field jackets when they left the ship, and various working uniforms and protective clothing as needed.

The rest of Trek has, broadly speaking, stuck to three basic levels: formal dress, ordinary duty, and working (jumpsuits etc.). And really, that's about all you need. The US Air Force has gone more in that direction, and the Army seems to be following, ditching the green Class A a few years ago. The Navy and Marines have been slower to give up traditional uniforms, but have trimmed down the selections somewhat in recent years.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The closest to what you describe was in STTMP. In drydock they wore "Class A," long sleeves with officer cuff rank, similar to USN quarterdeck watch in port. When they got underway, they changed to "Class B," lighter-weight short or long sleeves with shoulder rank, comparable to wash khakis and dungarees in my day (I'm old). Kirk wore a dressier uniform "ashore," there were field jackets when they left the ship, and various working uniforms and protective clothing as needed.

The rest of Trek has, broadly speaking, stuck to three basic levels: formal dress, ordinary duty, and working (jumpsuits etc.). And really, that's about all you need. The US Air Force has gone more in that direction, and the Army seems to be following, ditching the green Class A a few years ago. The Navy and Marines have been slower to give up traditional uniforms, but have trimmed down the selections somewhat in recent years.

Coast Guard too.

Most personnel pretty much just have the Operational Duty Uniform (Solid Blue NWU), and the "Bravo" Uniform (mid-blue shirt, slacks or skirt and tie [Service Uniform] or a pale blue or white shirt, mid-blue tie and suit (Dress Uniform).

Only Commissioned or Warrant Officers have an "Alpha" Uniform which is the same Dress Whites or Mess Uniform as worn by the USN.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well the Kelvin universe uniforms, well they can't make up there mind, shipboard are the standard color long sleeves, but off ships its a plethora of different uniforms for different things, even in beyond, Kirk wore the yorktown uniforms when he was talking with the admiral.
For me, minimums would be, some type of utility uniform for day in and day out on ship, some areas like engineering having a more coverall uniform, because they'd likely get dirty often, where the rest, like a helmsman, wouldn't have to worry about it. I really liked the functional nature of the "Enterprise" uniforms, pockets, etc. But there "dress" uniform was just hideous, the type admirals wore.. ugh.. I would have like the captain at least to have a "Dress" uniform for ceremonial occasions, head of state things, showing up in a pair of utilities is just.. wrong
Then some type of "dress" uniform for "on shore" or special duties, like people have a nice suit for special occasions, like going to see an admiral at his office, or your reporting for your first day on ship. Formal occasions.

What got me, on away missions, was.. no one was carrying a backpack of usefull things..? Some you don't need them like visiting dignitaries, but going to an unexplored planet, ..Take some provisions and equipment! Pack a jacket, few MRE's, dont have to be the 50 lbs of crap, but like an over night bag, thats packed for whatever planet there on. That or beam down a box that has that stuff.. How many TOS episodes have they been stranded? no food or water?? That and what they finally did in STD, wear some body armour when going into a bad place! sheesh

 

[fireproof78]

Well the Kelvin universe uniforms, well they can't make up there mind, shipboard are the standard color long sleeves, but off ships its a plethora of different uniforms for different things, even in beyond, Kirk wore the yorktown uniforms when he was talking with the admiral.

Since uniforms can be mandated by the senior officer, why wouldn't Kirk respect the commanding officer's uniform of the day?

Kelvin universe had, in my opinion, a good variety of uniforms that made sense from a real world perspective. You have your duty uniforms, with some variants (long sleeve, short), dress uniforms, as well as a utility jumpsuit for travel and work. You have away team gear (wet suits, field jackets, utility belts), and assignment specific gear (medical uniforms, security). Seems like an appropriate mix of uniforms to me.

 

[jaime]

I agree the uniforms in Star Trek are generally awful. But they're iconic.
The best ones IMO are the Kelvin movie ones. Especially the skin-hugging wetsuit Karl Urban wore.
The Kelvin movies had the hats and were more military-like
Actually no skin tight ones really.
The only really practical ones were in ENT but those guys looked like they were mechanics.
I liked the landing party jackets in "The Cage" and in TWOK. I wish they had more of that.
I'm OK with all the dress uniforms.

You can’t get quicker than an NX fitter.

 

[Jedman67]

Since uniforms can be mandated by the senior officer, why wouldn't Kirk respect the commanding officer's uniform of the day?

Kelvin universe had, in my opinion, a good variety of uniforms that made sense from a real world perspective. You have your duty uniforms, with some variants (long sleeve, short), dress uniforms, as well as a utility jumpsuit for travel and work. You have away team gear (wet suits, field jackets, utility belts), and assignment specific gear (medical uniforms, security). Seems like an appropriate mix of uniforms to me.

As well as the "starbase" or academy uniform.

TNG's Class A equivalent would be the formal dress uniform, the Class-B "Business Dress" would be the everyday uniform seen, and the Class-C "work" or "hazardous duty" uni's would be the coveralls seen by extras here and there throughout the series run.
DS9 introduced a more "working/heavy duty" Class B option while making only minimal changes to the TNG "mess dress". The coveralls were still seen on occasion in DS9 and Voyager, but were not given much screen time. Based on usage as the primary work uniform, the DS9 jumpsuit is definitely a Class B, a status retained in Voyager.
DS9 introduced Battle Dress Uniforms, consisting of an armored (flak?) jacket over trousers and boots, and Voyager introduced an exercise uniform, presumably it had other possible uses as an "undress" uniform, although most instances of such were portrayed by the primary uniform undershirt without the Class-B jacket.

ST09 and STID had the gray/brown uniforms as the Class B, and the colored ship uniforms were probably Class-C. I don't recall if a Mess Dress was ever shown.
In addition, you had special use uniforms for combat, diving and flying.

 

[Sgt_G]

When I joined the USAF, they had just changed the terms from Class A to Combination One, which later changed to be Service Dress. That's the coat and tie, with ribbons. It was -NOT- the Mess Dress uniform, which is like a tuxedo. As far as I know, the Army also called the coat & tie "Class A", not the Mess Dress.

Combo 2 / 2A was the no coat, just shirt with tie, ribbons optional. 2 was long sleeves and 2A was short sleeves.

Combo 3, if memory serves, was the dark-blue shirt with tie, ribbons optional. They phased that one out in 1988 or so. I had one and wore in at a training base, which p**sed off the instructors. Do anything "different" and they tried to say it was against regs. When you show them it's not, it p**ses them off even more.

Combo 4 was short-sleeve shirt, no tie, ribbons optional. If you had the long-sleeve shirt on, you must wear a tie (see Combo 2 above).

This was well before camouflage, so the work uniform was the olive-drab green Fatigues.

I won't even begin to list the Navy uniforms, even if my wife was Navy. I do remember how ticked she was when the Navy dropped the Salt & Peppers ... black pants and white shirt.

 

[Artoo Atari]

I remember reading how envious some of the TNG actors were of their Enterprise brethren who got to wear comfortable, loose-fitting uniforms with pockets instead of suffering in spandex.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I think for everyday shipboard wear, the Enterprise uniforms worn by Archer and co represent the most practical. However, trying to turn the jumpsuits into dress uniforms on Earth always looked hokey.

I think ideally, the Enterprise style jumpsuits or something similar should be the standard for shipboard wear, while something like the TNG uniforms would represent a good 'working dress' such as Navy khakis or USMC charlies. Monster Maroons would be representative of full service dress, modifiable to mess dress.

For away-teams in non-terrestrial environments, you dress as needed with standard issue, logo'd gear. Again, I think Enterprise did a reasonable job in this regard. If you are beaming down for a diplomatic function, you throw on the dressier stuff. And so on.

 

[Tenacity]

Star Trek Uniforms compared to Military Uniforms

They are military uniforms.

 

[Longinus]

Star Trek Uniforms compared to Military Uniforms

They are military uniforms.

No, because... You know why...

 

[Tenacity]

reasons?

 

[fireproof78]

I think for everyday shipboard wear, the Enterprise uniforms worn by Archer and co represent the most practical. However, trying to turn the jumpsuits into dress uniforms on Earth always looked hokey.

I think ideally, the Enterprise style jumpsuits or something similar should be the standard for shipboard wear, while something like the TNG uniforms would represent a good 'working dress' such as Navy khakis or USMC charlies. Monster Maroons would be representative of full service dress, modifiable to mess dress.

For away-teams in non-terrestrial environments, you dress as needed with standard issue, logo'd gear. Again, I think Enterprise did a reasonable job in this regard. If you are beaming down for a diplomatic function, you throw on the dressier stuff. And so on.

I think this is a pretty reasonable approach. Though, I've also been of the opinion that Starfleet uniforms could work well as being layers to build from working dress to full dress, i.e. wearing division turtlenecks for shipboard duty, jumpsuit for utilities, and then put the maroon jacket over the shirt to complete the full dress.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I think this is a pretty reasonable approach. Though, I've also been of the opinion that Starfleet uniforms could work well as being layers to build from working dress to full dress, i.e. wearing division turtlenecks for shipboard duty, jumpsuit for utilities, and then put the maroon jacket over the shirt to complete the full dress.

Just thinking out loud.

I've considered either a t-shirt & work trousers (with pockets) or jumpsuit for everyday working uniform, overblouse/jacket in the same style for off ship, turtleneck & work trousers for service uniform (shipboard) with the option to swap to dress trousers for semi-formal duty (typically HQ), then add either the "Monster Maroon" or TNG "Marines-style Admirals Dress Red" for formal duty (business dress to black tie).