Some Questions About the Destiny Trilogy?

[Dayton3]

I have some questions about the Destiny Trilogy. Also questions about modern Trek Literature in general.

1) How did David Mack ever get permission to make such a drastic change in the Star Trek universe? Basically eliminating a major alien force that had been a factor in all four of the series since the original.


2) Who made the decision and why to have all post Nemesis Star Trek fiction in the same continuity?

3) In the third book of the trilogy, why did the Caeliar choose to have the Borg arrive at their city hours earlier than expected? It was significant enough to warrant mentioning in the book but seemed to have no real purpose.


4) In the second book of the trilogy, one of the subspace tunnels led to a solar system where an advanced alien race had sometime in the past apparently destroyed thousands of Borg ships. I didn't notice this being followed up in any way. Was that simply misdirection on Macks part?

5) Can anyone explain what the Caeliar's "great work" was? I had considerable trouble understanding the point of it.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

3) In the third book of the trilogy, why did the Caeliar choose to have the Borg arrive at their city hours earlier than expected? It was significant enough to warrant mentioning in the book but seemed to have no real purpose.

I took it as the Caeliar were trying to hurry the process along.

Remember that Hernandez didn't tell Picard and Riker what her plan actually was. They assumed that the Caeliar were going to destroy the Borg or fling them elsewhere in the universe. While Hernandez could have told them they the Caeliar were going to bring this degraded branch of the Caeliar into the Gestalt, she didn't, which is why the viewpoint characters were as mystified as you were as to the reasons why.

4) In the second book of the trilogy, one of the subspace tunnels led to a solar system where an advanced alien race had sometime in the past apparently destroyed thousands of Borg ships. I didn't notice this being followed up in any way. Was that simply misdirection on Macks part?

I think it was misdirection, yes. There are several points in Mere Mortals where the idea of merging human and Caeliar is dismissed, which was misdirection for 1) Hernandez's own fate and 2) the fate of Mantilis. Even after 1, I think Dave meant to leave the impression that Mantilis had been destroyed in the Delta Quadrant, either by the Borg themselves, possibly the Hirogen, or perhaps even these mysterious creatures that evolved in a super-Jovian.

5) Can anyone explain what the Caeliar's "great work" was? I had considerable trouble understanding the point of it.

They wanted to contact a species more advanced than they were. It's spelled out several times in Gods of Night and Mere Mortals. I'm not sure how you could have any confusion on that point.

 

[JD]

2) Who made the decision and why to have all post Nemesis Star Trek fiction in the same continuity?

I'm assuming that it was the same people, and for the same reason that the DS9R, Vanguard, IKS Gorkon, New Frontier, SCE, Titan, VoyR, and TNGR have all been in the same continuity.

 

[Dayton3]

3) In the third book of the trilogy, why did the Caeliar choose to have the Borg arrive at their city hours earlier than expected? It was significant enough to warrant mentioning in the book but seemed to have no real purpose.

I took it as the Caeliar were trying to hurry the process along.

Remember that Hernandez didn't tell Picard and Riker what her plan actually was. They assumed that the Caeliar were going to destroy the Borg or fling them elsewhere in the universe. While Hernandez could have told them they the Caeliar were going to bring this degraded branch of the Caeliar into the Gestalt, she didn't, which is why the viewpoint characters were as mystified as you were as to the reasons why.

4) In the second book of the trilogy, one of the subspace tunnels led to a solar system where an advanced alien race had sometime in the past apparently destroyed thousands of Borg ships. I didn't notice this being followed up in any way. Was that simply misdirection on Macks part?

I think it was misdirection, yes. There are several points in Mere Mortals where the idea of merging human and Caeliar is dismissed, which was misdirection for 1) Hernandez's own fate and 2) the fate of Mantilis. Even after 1, I think Dave meant to leave the impression that Mantilis had been destroyed in the Delta Quadrant, either by the Borg themselves, possibly the Hirogen, or perhaps even these mysterious creatures that evolved in a super-Jovian.

5) Can anyone explain what the Caeliar's "great work" was? I had considerable trouble understanding the point of it.

They wanted to contact a species more advanced than they were. It's spelled out several times in Gods of Night and Mere Mortals. I'm not sure how you could have any confusion on that point.

I was under the impression that there was more to it than that.

After all, haven't we seen a number of species more advanced than the Caeliar in Trek history?

The Organians. The Q. The Cytherians (probably). Even the Excalbians. The Dowd.

To name but just a few off the top of my head.

 

[SeerSGB]

3) In the third book of the trilogy, why did the Caeliar choose to have the Borg arrive at their city hours earlier than expected? It was significant enough to warrant mentioning in the book but seemed to have no real purpose.

I took it as the Caeliar were trying to hurry the process along.

Remember that Hernandez didn't tell Picard and Riker what her plan actually was. They assumed that the Caeliar were going to destroy the Borg or fling them elsewhere in the universe. While Hernandez could have told them they the Caeliar were going to bring this degraded branch of the Caeliar into the Gestalt, she didn't, which is why the viewpoint characters were as mystified as you were as to the reasons why.

I think it was misdirection, yes. There are several points in Mere Mortals where the idea of merging human and Caeliar is dismissed, which was misdirection for 1) Hernandez's own fate and 2) the fate of Mantilis. Even after 1, I think Dave meant to leave the impression that Mantilis had been destroyed in the Delta Quadrant, either by the Borg themselves, possibly the Hirogen, or perhaps even these mysterious creatures that evolved in a super-Jovian.

5) Can anyone explain what the Caeliar's "great work" was? I had considerable trouble understanding the point of it.

They wanted to contact a species more advanced than they were. It's spelled out several times in Gods of Night and Mere Mortals. I'm not sure how you could have any confusion on that point.

I was under the impression that there was more to it than that.

After all, haven't we seen a number of species more advanced than the Caeliar in Trek history?

The Organians. The Q. The Cytherians (probably). Even the Excalbians. The Dowd.

To name but just a few off the top of my head.

I don't think we know the full extent of the Caeliar's powers. Almost all the info we get on them is filtered through the POV of human characters, and on top of that we don't see them at the top of their game but for a fairly short amount of time. It's entirely likely that they're up there with those races you mentioned-- or those races may even be off shoots of them, and/or similar races.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Dayton3, you're equating transcendence with advancement. Not every species is going to transcend to a new level of being. Some merely want to advance technologically.

I thought the Caeliar were looking for a Kardashev Type III civilization, one that had harnessed all the energy and matter within a single galaxy. (And as we saw midway through Mere Mortals, there is a Kardashev-III galaxy out there.) The Caeliar were clearly a Kardashev-II civilization, and they were in search of a civilization that had taken the next step on the Kardashev scale, not necessarily a species that had become beings of pure thought.

 

[KRAD]

1) How did David Mack ever get permission to make such a drastic change in the Star Trek universe? Basically eliminating a major alien force that had been a factor in all four of the series since the original.

He didn't "get permission," he was hired to do this.

2) Who made the decision and why to have all post Nemesis Star Trek fiction in the same continuity?

That decision was made some time ago, and the books have been interconnected for going on eight years now.

But the answer to both questions, really, is "the editors, with the approval of CBS/Paramount." They're the ones running things.

 

[Dayton3]

1) How did David Mack ever get permission to make such a drastic change in the Star Trek universe? Basically eliminating a major alien force that had been a factor in all four of the series since the original.

He didn't "get permission," he was hired to do this.

In that case the question is "why"?

Has Paramount/CBS decided that there will never be any on air continuation in the post Nemesis time frame?

 

[tranya]

This should probably be a pre-emptive FAQ, actually, if it isn't one already... I had some confusion about this same issue for a while.

Actually, looks like it isn't a FAQ, but you might want to look here anyway:

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=1016011&postcount=3

 

[Allyn Gibson]

He didn't "get permission," he was hired to do this.

In that case the question is "why"?

Margaret Clark has said on occasion that 1) there hadn't been a full-throated crossover since Gateways, so it was time, and 2) that they wanted to do an event in the novels to coincide with the original release date of the new Star Trek film to remind people that the novels were out there doing really bold things. Put those in a blender, and you get a crossover that kicks over the status quo of the post-Destiny universe.

Has Paramount/CBS decided that there will never be any on air continuation in the post Nemesis time frame?

I don't know that they've made any official decision that the 24th-century (or beyond) is being abandoned. (There was the animated series set in the 26th-century that was being talked about, for instance.) Or if they have made a decision, they certainly haven't announced it. Why? Because Hollywood is a notoriously strange place, where studios always hedge their bets, where nothing is ever written off creatively, and where today's hot thing is tomorrow's has-been. Even if the current CBS regime thinks that the 23rd-century is the way to go, six weeks from now they might bring a producer in to develop a Riker film. Don't expect logic, reason, or careful planning from Hollywood. Like Camelot, Hollywood 'tis a silly place.

 

[SeerSGB]

1) How did David Mack ever get permission to make such a drastic change in the Star Trek universe? Basically eliminating a major alien force that had been a factor in all four of the series since the original.

He didn't "get permission," he was hired to do this.

In that case the question is "why"?

Has Paramount/CBS decided that there will never be any on air continuation in the post Nemesis time frame?

Honestly, I've doubt they've given the matter to much thought-- beyond the movie. And even if they did, they wouldn't be bound by the novelverse. After all DC Comics ran with the TOS movie era in a totally different direction than the books and ultimately the movies and TV shows ultimately went.

 

[BrotherBenny]

If there is another TV series set post-Nemesis that follows a different path to the books and the shared continuity that most of the lines follow (I say most because Vanguard only really follows TOS and doesn't seem to have impacted the 24th century at all), the editors at CBS will either curb those lines entirely or shift them into the Destinyverse, which would be a separate continuity to the new on-screen canon.

If the 26th century series goes ahead, then the editors have the option (with approval) to almost follow on from the books if need be, but the basic idea of that series almost felt like going backward technology-wise so it didn't look completely ridiculous with treknobabble solutions.

Personally, there are still enough possibilities for storytelling in trekverse we have - there's the "post-First Contact to ENT" lost era (90 years); the ENT-TOS era (100 years); the TOS movie era; the Lost Era; and then the TNG-VOY era set aboard different ships. There are enough possibilities for anything to be viable - as long as the suits give the series time to bed in, which they never seem to do these days.

 

[Christopher]

If there is another TV series set post-Nemesis that follows a different path to the books and the shared continuity that most of the lines follow (I say most because Vanguard only really follows TOS and doesn't seem to have impacted the 24th century at all), the editors at CBS will either curb those lines entirely or shift them into the Destinyverse, which would be a separate continuity to the new on-screen canon.

I suspect the current book continuity ("Destinyverse," as you call it) would be wrapped up in favor of books consistent with the new series, as has been done in the past. Hopefully we'd at least get to give it a good finale or something.

But who knows? Now that we have Myriad Universes, maybe there's room for having separate continuities running in the books.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

On the subject of why they didn't try the Organians, etc.. I'm curious as to whether the Caeliar are aware of the Q and what their feelings about them are.
I hope Destiny isn't the last we see of them, I feel like there is still a lot of interesting stuff to find out about this race.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

I have read half of the third book now and intend to read more later this evening. So far the third book is definitely my favourite: It is amazing!

From what I have read so far I don`t think we can say that the Caeliar don`t know about the Organians or the Q or other species on that level. Maybe they tried to contact them and were ignored. Or they considered some of them as not suitable for being contacted.

As I already mentioned in one of my Destiny reviews, I am wondering about something else: Would these more advanced species really have done nothing and just watch how the Borg destroy so many less advanced species? Would that have been in their interest? Or did they know what will happen? I am curious.

 

[SeerSGB]

I have read half of the third book now and intend to read more later this evening. So far the third book is definitely my favourite: It is amazing!

From what I have read so far I don`t think we can say that the Caeliar don`t know about the Organians or the Q or other species on that level. Maybe they tried to contact them and were ignored. Or they considered some of them as not suitable for being contacted.

As I already mentioned in one of my Destiny reviews, I am wondering about something else: Would these more advanced species really have done nothing and just watch how the Borg destroy so many less advanced species? Would that have been in their interest? Or did they know what will happen? I am curious.

The "Q" might just shrug and snicker at the silly little coperals lifeforms killing each other tsk, tsk. And wouldn't intervene till directly threatened.

The Organians I think are a none factor, for whatever reason, by the 24th century-- if not by some point in the later 23rd. We could could with DC's take in the 80s and have the Organians and Excalbians wiping each other out, or assume at some point stopped caring.

 

[Christopher]

^^The Organians never started caring. They made it abundantly clear in "Errand of Mercy" that they couldn't stand dealing with corporeal beings at all, and the only reason they bothered to intervene in our affairs is because we were making a nuisance of ourselves in their frontyard and they wanted us to stop and go away. So there's no reason to expect the Organians to intervene in any conflict between corporeals unless it directly intrudes on their solitude.

 

[Dayton3]

^^The Organians never started caring. They made it abundantly clear in "Errand of Mercy" that they couldn't stand dealing with corporeal beings at all, and the only reason they bothered to intervene in our affairs is because we were making a nuisance of ourselves in their frontyard and they wanted us to stop and go away. So there's no reason to expect the Organians to intervene in any conflict between corporeals unless it directly intrudes on their solitude.

True.

Same with the advanced Metrons and Melkotians "Arena" & "Specter of the Gun".

Seems like the ultra advanced races really only get annoyed when those who have to fly around in starships get too close.

In that case, the Caeliar are remarkably similar to the races we've already seen.