Shared universe with other franchises

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Dale

Dale was an acquaintance of Guinan's who adopted her pit bull Luna, in 2024, after she closed up her bar at 10 Forward Avenue. (PIC: "Watcher")

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Okay, so this character is apparently shared between Star Trek and multiple other shows. Aside from real historical figures, is "Dale" the first real individual character who crosses over between Trek and many other non-Trek franchises? That is, the first person who's supposed to really exist in serious shows, as opposed to being a fictional character in the world of the show, or appearing in a dream or vision of a non-Trek character in a non-Trek show, or a silly spoof.

Gary Seven doesn't count for the purpose of my question - Assignment: Earth never made it past the attempted pilot, it was always supposed to be part of Trek's continuity if it had become its own show.

A hypothetical example would be if, say, in an episode of a cop show, Spock the character (not an actor or cosplayer pretending to be him) beamed away before the cops could catch him, and it was played straight, not for laughs.

 

[Christopher]

Aside from real historical figures, is "Dale" the first real individual character who crosses over between Trek and many other non-Trek franchises? That is, the first person who's supposed to really exist in serious shows, as opposed to being a fictional character in the world of the show, or appearing in a dream or vision of a non-Trek character in a non-Trek show, or a silly spoof.

Would real people count? Not counting holograms, alien illusions, and archive footage, historical figures including Mark Twain, Jack London, Isaac Newton (in "Death Wish"), and Amelia Earhart have appeared as characters in Trek and in other fictional works.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Fictional people only (fictional for us, real for them).

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

He's the first character that I've ever heard of that has appeared in other Franchises outside of Trek as the same character.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Star Trek 4's Punk on the Bus was also in Spider-Man: Homecoming.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

That makes two.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Dale

Dale was an acquaintance of Guinan's who adopted her pit bull Luna, in 2024, after she closed up her bar at 10 Forward Avenue. (PIC: "Watcher")

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Okay, so this character is apparently shared between Star Trek and multiple other shows. Aside from real historical figures, is "Dale" the first real individual character who crosses over between Trek and many other non-Trek franchises? That is, the first person who's supposed to really exist in serious shows, as opposed to being a fictional character in the world of the show, or appearing in a dream or vision of a non-Trek character in a non-Trek show, or a silly spoof.

Gary Seven doesn't count for the purpose of my question - Assignment: Earth never made it past the attempted pilot, it was always supposed to be part of Trek's continuity if it had become its own show.

A hypothetical example would be if, say, in an episode of a cop show, Spock the character (not an actor or cosplayer pretending to be him) beamed away before the cops could catch him, and it was played straight, not for laughs.

Impractical Jokers is a reality show and Quinn plays himself. He must be a friend of people who made those shows. Matalas?

 

[Tosk]

That is, the first person who's supposed to really exist in serious shows

I'd argue that it's just a nod or in-joke and shouldn't be taken as him literally being the same character, as opposed to an alternate reality version of the same character. (Just like the Bus Punk in Spidey.)

Short version: Star Trek is a TV show within the universe of MacGyver.

 

[Christopher]

Impractical Jokers is a reality show and Quinn plays himself. He must be a friend of people who made those shows. Matalas?

Yes, it's a Terry Matalas in-joke.

MSN

I'd argue that it's just a nod or in-joke and shouldn't be taken as him literally being the same character, as opposed to an alternate reality version of the same character. (Just like the Bus Punk in Spidey.)

Oh, that's right, the Bus Punk would be another example, versions of the same character played by the same actor, appearing in Trek and a different franchise.

And yes, of course it's just a metatextual in-joke rather than literally the same character jumping universes. There are plenty of fictional characters that appear in many different continuities, sometimes even played by the same actor in more than one (e.g. Judi Dench's M, J.K. Simmons's J. Jonah Jameson, or Richard Belzer's Detective Munch).

 

[Tosk]

And yes, of course it's just a metatextual in-joke rather than literally the same character jumping universes.

I know. Tell Laura.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Naturally, you can take it either way. However you look at it, this hasn't been done very often for fictional Trek characters. At least 3, if you take Spock's quoting Sherlock Holmes as a reference to the character and not Doyle.

Heck, if you want to get really nutty, technically, any person in the crowded background of a shot on location who wasn't specifically identified as/clearly a different person than their actual identity, could potentially be in a shared universe with ours and Trek.

 

[Christopher]

Naturally, you can take it either way. However you look at it, this hasn't been done very often for fictional Trek characters. At least 3, if you take Spock's quoting Sherlock Holmes as a reference to the character and not Doyle.

If we're counting pre-existing characters from other universes being brought into Trek, then the primary examples would have to be Chuft-Captain, Flyer, and Telepath in "The Slaver Weapon," all of whom originated in Larry Niven's "The Soft Weapon" in the Known Space universe. Also, of course, the Kzinti in general and the Slavers (Thrintun).

I don't think the same would go for any of the characters in TNG: "Tin Man," though, since they were all altered considerably from the versions in the novel it was adapted from, Tin Woodman, to the point that they were no longer the same characters. (In the novel, the psychic was a 19-year-old human named Div Harlthor, and Gomtuu was the name of the species that created the sentient ship.)

A borderline case: In TAS: "One of Our Planets is Missing," the viewscreen footage of silhouetted figures and a dog running through a forest uses stock animation from Lassie's Rescue Rangers. So one could argue, if one were determined to stretch the point, that this was Lassie appearing in Star Trek.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Isn't TNG, and thus all of Star Trek part of the Webster/Dif'rent Strokes universe? They crossed over in "Webtrek"

 

[Christopher]

Isn't TNG, and thus all of Star Trek part of the Webster/Dif'rent Strokes universe? They crossed over in "Webtrek"

That was one of those cases where it turned out to be a dream... or was it?

And of course, one story can pretend it shares continuity with another series without the other series reciprocating. Mulder and Scully showing up on The Simpsons doesn't mean the events of The Simpsons are canonical to The X-Files. It just means one made-up work pretended to include characters from another made-up work.

 

[The Wormhole]

Impractical Jokers is a reality show and Quinn plays himself. He must be a friend of people who made those shows. Matalas?

Indeed, this Dale character appeared on both 12 Monkeys and the rebooted MacGyver, both of which Matalas worked on.

 

[Cryogenator]

Isn't TNG, and thus all of Star Trek part of the Webster/Dif'rent Strokes universe? They crossed over in "Webtrek"

Wow!!! I'd never heard of this!

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[hbquikcomjamesl]

You all seem to be ignoring the 256-page elephant in the room: Barbara Hambly asserts, in Ishmael, that Spock's human ancestors came from Seattle. And not the real Seattle, of the Denny family and Doc Maynard, but the fictional Seattle of the Bolt Brothers and Aaron Stempel (spelled "Stemple" in the book), from Here Come the Brides.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Good point - that's a special case - the shows during their runs never tried to combine, but the book meshes both together.

At least 3, if you take Spock's quoting Sherlock Holmes as a reference to the character and not Doyle

In addition to this: it's interesting that Data, trying to be more human, emulates Holmes, a possible Human ancestor of Spock, who acts rather Vulcan at times. Baby steps, Data? (Pretending to be a Vulcan-like human before trying to be even more Human)

 

[The Wormhole]

How does this fit into the subject?

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[FormerLurker]

You all seem to be ignoring the 256-page elephant in the room: Barbara Hambly asserts, in Ishmael, that Spock's human ancestors came from Seattle. And not the real Seattle, of the Denny family and Doc Maynard, but the fictional Seattle of the Bolt Brothers and Aaron Stempel (spelled "Stemple" in the book), from Here Come the Brides.

When I first bought and read the book, I did not know the connection to Here Come The Brides, and still have little to no knowledge about the program. It is interesting, but it went right past me.