Sexuality in the mirror universe?

[JoeZhang]

After reading warpath, I decided to see what other books and stories have featured the mirror universe and I come across various pages on memory alpha about the mirror universe and characters, - and the common theme seems to be that all attractive female characters are lesbians/bisexual/sex mad (liking sex = deviant?).

Is William Riker a homosexual in the mirror universe? or Ben Sisko? Are any of the male characters revealed to be gay in the mirror universe? Because I cannot find any reference to such a thing.

I'm just working off what I can find on the web but is this all as dodgy as the articles on memory alpha make it sound?

 

[flandry84]

I've got to be honest ..the whole mirror universe business does nothing for me,dressed up slash IMO.
The "deviant" sexuality of many MU characters strikes a particularly sour note,for a worldview as open and accepting as Star Trek espouses,it is interesting that only the "baddies" of a parallel universe are portrayed as homosexual/lesbian.Not very enlightened or enlightening and only one of the reasons that I will not be going any farther with the MU.

 

[Christopher]

I agree that DS9's portrayal of Intendant Kira as bisexual was playing into an unfortunate stereotype, but it doesn't have to be read as saying that "the evil characters are bi and the good counterparts are hetero." For all we know, "our" Colonel Kira is bisexual too, but we just never saw her engaged in a lesbian relationship. Same for Leeta and Ezri -- and we know from "Rejoined" that Trill (or at least Daxes) aren't picky about the sex of their lovers. (And note that Mirror Leeta and Ezri were not "baddies," not as it ultimately turned out, anyhow.)

In fact, mirror Garak was pretty emphatically hinted to be gay, but "real" Garak was hinted to be gay almost as emphatically, at least until they hooked him up with Ziyal.

Perhaps the difference between universes is not one of orientation but of overtness. People in the Alliance of the MU seem to be more aggressively hedonistic, so they might feel more cultural pressure to express their sexuality (of both stripes) openly, whereas people in the Federation tend to be more sedate and decorous.

Certainly Trek lit, if not screen Trek, has provided multiple examples of gay/lesbian/bisexual good guys, including Bart Faulwell, Ranul Keru, Krissten Richter, and Etana Kol. (I'd mention T'Prynn and Sandesjo from Vanguard, but they're kind of hard to place on the good/bad scale.) So although DS9 onscreen may have been a bit iffy on this point, I think it's safe to say that Trek lit has not portrayed homo- or bisexuality as a "deviant" or "baddie" trait.

 

[David Mack]

the common theme seems to be that all attractive female characters are lesbians/bisexual/sex mad (liking sex = deviant?).

Well, not all, certainly. Flip through my MU tale, The Sorrows of Empire, and you'll find the following female characters are either straight or at least not overtly lesbian or bisexual: Marlena Moreau, Saavik, Valeris, Empress Hoshi Sato III, Commander Hiromi Takeshewada, Lieutenant Uhura, and Dr. Carol Marcus.

In the DS9 MU tale Saturn's Children, Sito Jaxa is depicted as heterosexual (or at least not confirmed as bisexual). For that matter, so is Keiko Ishikawa. Also, Lisa Neeley, Kasidy Yates, and Ro Laren.

Just food for thought.

 

[Trent Roman]

I'm just working off what I can find on the web but is this all as dodgy as the articles on memory alpha make it sound?

Well... yes. Overall, I'd have to say so. Sexuality in Mirror Universe episodes was used either for prurient appeal or to highlight how divergeant these characters were from 'our' versions. The male/female thing isn't an exact corrolelate; I don't think Mirror Jadzia or Mirror Jennifer were cast that way, and I do think Mirror Garak was much more overt than his counterpart (and there were some suggestions about Mirror Worf as well). But by and large, it certainly played into the notion that the (overall) straight male audience is far more interested in lipstick lesbians than any other form of queer pairing.

But, like Christopher suggested, there might be some 'outs'. Cultural pressure towards hedonism, and a cultural assumption of bisexuality as standard, could be one. In the case of Alliance characters like Kira and Worf, domination could be at play: to be effective as an expression of dominance, sexual 'possession' of other characters works best without gender bias. One could also postulate, for both Alliance and Rebels, that life in this universe is a lot more uncertain and brutish, and so they take they're thrills were they can get them and are a lot less picky about choice of partners. In particular, sex in the Mirror Universe is quite seperate from love, which, other than characters like Riker and Jadzia, still seems a concern in 'our' universe. In that one, narrow respect, one could actually say that the Mirror Universe is more free for not being saddled with that kind of cultural baggage.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[JD]

Also Hoshi seemed to be pretty much straight in both In A Mirror, Darkly and Age of the Empress.

 

[JoeZhang]

I'm just working off what I can find on the web but is this all as dodgy as the articles on memory alpha make it sound?

Well... yes. Overall, I'd have to say so. Sexuality in Mirror Universe episodes was used either for prurient appeal or to highlight how divergeant these characters were from 'our' versions. The male/female thing isn't an exact corrolelate; I don't think Mirror Jadzia or Mirror Jennifer were cast that way, and I do think Mirror Garak was much more overt than his counterpart (and there were some suggestions about Mirror Worf as well). But by and large, it certainly played into the notion that the (overall) straight male audience is far more interested in lipstick lesbians than any other form of queer pairing.

But, like Christopher suggested, there might be some 'outs'. Cultural pressure towards hedonism, and a cultural assumption of bisexuality as standard, could be one. In the case of Alliance characters like Kira and Worf, domination could be at play: to be effective as an expression of dominance, sexual 'possession' of other characters works best without gender bias. One could also postulate, for both Alliance and Rebels, that life in this universe is a lot more uncertain and brutish, and so they take they're thrills were they can get them and are a lot less picky about choice of partners. In particular, sex in the Mirror Universe is quite seperate from love, which, other than characters like Riker and Jadzia, still seems a concern in 'our' universe. In that one, narrow respect, one could actually say that the Mirror Universe is more free for not being saddled with that kind of cultural baggage.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

But those are in-universe reasons and frankly it seems like a dodge to me to say "oh well we never see..." and "well in that universe", those books are still produced here and written here and they choices come down to the editors and the writers and it seems like the TV series, they've taken the easy way out and injected some lesbians when they want something for the dregs of the community.

I'm sorry to say it looks like two things might have occurred - "trek fans are wankers (in the truest sense of the word)" and "trek fans don't like queers" - if we get a gay picard, riker, sisko, la forge - I'd be slightly more inclined to believe what I've heard here.

 

[JoeZhang]

the common theme seems to be that all attractive female characters are lesbians/bisexual/sex mad (liking sex = deviant?).

Well, not all, certainly. Flip through my MU tale, The Sorrows of Empire, and you'll find the following female characters are either straight or at least not overtly lesbian or bisexual: Marlena Moreau, Saavik, Valeris, Empress Hoshi Sato III, Commander Hiromi Takeshewada, Lieutenant Uhura, and Dr. Carol Marcus.

In the DS9 MU tale Saturn's Children, Sito Jaxa is depicted as heterosexual (or at least not confirmed as bisexual). For that matter, so is Keiko Ishikawa. Also, Lisa Neeley, Kasidy Yates, and Ro Laren.

Just food for thought.

and how many leading characters besides the (already) very camp Garak turned out to be gay? Picard, riker, wolf, la forge, Bashir who?

 

[Trent Roman]

I'm not quite sure what you're driving at now. I don't think it comes as news to anybody that televised Trek was hostile to queer issues in contravention of its own internal logic, due to the prejudices and/or cowardice of the producers and the network. The Mirror Universe episodes might demonstate this moreso than most because of what's present, but it's just the inverse side of the prudish and heterosexist policies of the showrunners that profoundly confined sexuality in Trek (i.e. what's absent).

I will say, however, that the Trek Lit line has been, in contrast, consciencious and interested in diverse gender and sexual schemas (to the point of inventing some distinctly non-standard and sometimes gender-bending biologies with the Andorians and the Damiano, for instance), and while I confess that I might not be as sensetive to such things as others, I didn't find sexuality problematic in any of the recent Mirror Universe offerings. The writers are taking the setting seriously, in contrast to DS9 where the MU eventually just become an opportunity to crack jokes.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[JoeZhang]

I'm not quite sure what you're driving at now. I don't think it comes as news to anybody that televised Trek was hostile to queer issues in contravention of its own internal logic, due to the prejudices and/or cowardice of the producers and the network. The Mirror Universe episodes might demonstate this moreso than most because of what's present, but it's just the inverse side of the prudish and heterosexist policies of the showrunners that profoundly confined sexuality in Trek.

I will say, however, that the Trek Lit line has been, in contrast, consciencious and interested in diverse gender and sexual schemas (to the point of inventing some distinctly non-standard and sometimes gender-bending biologies with the Andorians and the Damiano, for instance), and while I confess that I might not be as sensetive to such things as others, I didn't find sexuality problematic in any of the recent Mirror Universe offerings. The writers are taking the setting seriously, in contrast to DS9R where the MU eventually just become an opportunity to crack jokes.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

bear in mind I haven't read any of this stuff - I'm just going off what I can find on the web - I see bisexual/lesbian versions of characters such as kira, seven, Dax, leeta etc and I think to myself - well surely some of the lead male characters are homosexual and I cannot find anything of the kind. It misses the point to say "what about book only character X".

 

[Christopher]

I think you're overlooking the fact that, as mentioned already, there are several prominent gay male characters as well as lesbian characters in regular-universe Trek lit, regardless of what might be the case in the limited number of Mirror Universe books to date. If you're looking for some kind of narrow litmus test, like "It doesn't count until Mirror Picard and Mirror Riker get it on," then I can't help you, but there's certainly no reason to assume that a single omission like that is evidence of any kind of prejudice or timidity toward alternative sexualities in the literature.

 

[KRAD]

It misses the point to say "what about book only character X".

No, actually, it doesn't miss the point at all, because this is the Trek Literature board. If your issue is how Trek has treated sexuality on screen, then you're in the wrong forum.

The fiction has been much less conservative than the TV shows and movies on that particular subject.

One of the main characters of Corps of Engineers -- who'd be an opening-credits regular if it were a TV show -- is an openly gay man.

 

[elaithin]

So is Keru, in Titan. At least, I think he'd be an opening-credits regular. There's a lot of characters in that series, so it's harder to tell.

 

[Mr Nighttime]

MU Kira was hot...sorry..had to say it.

She did creep me out when she met the "real" Kira and seemed to be hitting on..uh..herself.

Funny, in the mirror universe tales I read, I never saw the women from a sexual standpoint. I really couldnt care if they were lesbian or bisexual. Didn't care about the men either for that matter. The only thing that stood out for me was that the writers seemed to make the women even stronger and more assertive.

And that is a good thing.

 

[hellsgate]

I agree whole-heartedly with Flandry84. I wouldn't mind exploring some of these issues but I'm wary of doing so. Its a slippery slope, between an occasional mention of a character's personal life & pandering to the point a good Trek story/e-novel concept becomes "Star Trek: **** & ****'s Night Party".

 

[flandry84]

See,as sci-fi concepts go,the "evil alternate universe" is let's face it,at the comic-book end of the scale.Not that that doesn't mean that interesting things couldn't be achieved with the MU.But as in the comic book wold characters cannot be defined by just one thing anymore.For example,,ethnicity;Fu Manchu,Ming,even Jar Jar Binks(everyone groans).
Same goes for physical deformity or disability.
My main problem is that Intendent Kira is defined by her sexuality almost exclusively.Why is she so f****d up?,The contrast with T'Prynn is worth making.Both strong,scheming women (leave aside the lesbianism),T'Prynn is depicted as having an inner life,while Kira looks like a s&m fantasy sim made real.

 

[Christopher]

My main problem is that Intendent Kira is defined by her sexuality almost exclusively.

I don't think that's true. If that were the case, she'd just be a nymphomaniac instead of a sadist and a tyrant. Intendant Kira is defined by her appetite for power and control. Her sexuality is a tool she wields to achieve and exercise domination over others.

Overall, the Terran Empire and the Alliance that overthrew it have both been consistently portrayed as more decadent, hedonistic societies than ours, what with "Captain's women" and Sulu hitting on Uhura right on the bridge. And heck, look at how much action Sisko got when he impersonated his Mirror counterpart -- he got to bed both Kira and Jadzia! And that was on top of getting reunited with the counterpart of his late wife. One could argue that he was "defined by his sexuality" too, certainly more so than usual in the main universe. It's not just about Kira; it's universe-wide.

 

[flandry84]

Okay,a universe fueled by sex and terror.Not the soundest of foundations you'll agree.Someone earlier suggested that a brutish world(s) might account for a "full on"way of life......maybe so.But I don't recall if anyone mentioned any Terran depravations against the Bajorans,perhaps I'm wrong.Point is,Kira is a fully functional psycho/sociopathic killer whose omni- sexuality is IMO the only characteristic the creators have chosen to highlight.

 

[flandry84]

I don't know if this is the correct forum to question the format of the MU books.For a story as grand as the rise& fall of the terran empire,the multi-part books feel rushed,bitty and unsatisfactory.Maybe a format-busting giant book a-la Harry Turtledove,multi-character,multi-location examination of the empire from many perspectives would have more impact.Maybe it's past time for Pocket to try something bold and new,God knows they have strung out so many thin 2/3 parter volumes in the past.

 

[Mr Nighttime]

My main problem is that Intendent Kira is defined by her sexuality almost exclusively.

And heck, look at how much action Sisko got when he impersonated his Mirror counterpart -- he got to bed both Kira and Jadzia! And that was on top of getting reunited with the counterpart of his late wife. One could argue that he was "defined by his sexuality" too, certainly more so than usual in the main universe. It's not just about Kira; it's universe-wide.

Sisko was a man-whore. I think he just let the inner fantasies run wild..after all..wasn;t really his universe he was fooling around in. But probably made it difficult to look at Kira and Jadzia with a straight face in ops for a while....