S3-5: Enterprise & Voyager

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I never got past a few episodes into S3 first-time around, the distant future setting just didn't pull me in. I got busy with other TV shows. I'm revisiting S1-2 before giving the later seasons a go. Loved S1, a few episodes into S2. Before diving into S3, I'm going to watch both seasons of SNW, then circle back to S3 of Disco. Any reason not to watch this way? Anyway. In S3-5, where's that century's version of the Enterprise? Do we learn the fate of the Universe-class Enterprise-J?

Voyager-J, does it ever play a proper role in the show, or is it just a background easter egg ship? Do we ever get to see the inside, the bridge, or anything? What's up with "detached modules" such as the nacelles? Is this like a safety feature: in a catastrophe, don't have to eject what's already detached kind of thing? I do like how Voyager has been revisited on Disco, Picard, Lower Decks, and especially Prodigy. It takes away that "never got a movie" sting. haha

If Voyager's turned into a museum due to it's historic journey, Voyager-A is in Prodigy, and Picard S3 (2401) has a blink-and-you-miss-it Voyager-B cameo (is this really canon guys?), that means we have... Voyager-B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J... 9 Voyagers from spanning 8 centuries. That means the first 2 Voyagers had short runs, while the next 9 will last nearly a century on average. I feel like "Voyager-J" is more a not to that Ent-J cameo on Enterprise and didn't take into account the math I just noted. haha

 

[Lord Garth]

Voyager-J becomes the official "other ship" of DSC. It's always referred back to. It's a plot-point at one point. But we never get to see the inside of it.

We never find out about which Enterprise is the current Enterprise. Just that there's one in the 32nd Century.

I won't go into any specifics because that would become spoiler-y.

 

[The Wormhole]

We never find out about which Enterprise is the current Enterprise. Just that there's one in the 32nd Century.

Even that's not so clear cut. There's a line in S4 where they discuss things from the logs of the various Enterprises and Voyagers which for some reason The Roddenberry Archive interprets as confirmation of the existence of a 32nd century Enterprise.

My personal theory is there is no longer an Enterprise and Voyager is now Starfleet's flagship. At the very least, Voyager J must be one hell of a prestigious ship since the Federation President is personally responsible for selecting its Captain.

 

[drt]

Before diving into S3, I'm going to watch both seasons of SNW, then circle back to S3 of Disco. Any reason not to watch this way?

There’s no reason to not watch that way, but there's no reason to watch SNW first either, so whatever you feel like is the way to go.

What's up with "detached modules" such as the nacelles? Is this like a safety feature: in a catastrophe, don't have to eject what's already detached kind of thing?

Ultimately, It's just visual shorthand for "the future" - although I think there's a line somewhere about the 32nd ships being more maneuverable, but not much explanation other than that i can recall. Considering the TNG+ ships are supposed to essentially be held together by forcefields anyway, it kind of makes sense to just lose dorsals and struts as unnecessary mass, so i was always ok with it.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Voyager-J becomes the official "other ship" of DSC. It's always referred back to. It's a plot-point at one point. But we never get to see the inside of it.

We never find out about which Enterprise is the current Enterprise. Just that there's one in the 32nd Century.

I won't go into any specifics because that would become spoiler-y.

I'll take it and thank you! I know that when Discovery finally finds distant-future Starfleet HQ, Voyager-J gets a "wow" cameo and some chatter on the bridge. Each time the ship pops up, does it get special attention like that, or does it become "generic CGI ship?" I wouldn't mind vacationing on the rainforest ship. What do we even call that one?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Even that's not so clear cut. There's a line in S4 where they discuss things from the logs of the various Enterprises and Voyagers which for some reason The Roddenberry Archive interprets as confirmation of the existence of a 32nd century Enterprise.

My personal theory is there is no longer an Enterprise and Voyager is now Starfleet's flagship. At the very least, Voyager J must be one hell of a prestigious ship since the Federation President is personally responsible for selecting its Captain.

From the few 3rd season episodes I saw back when they were new, that was the impression I got from the "one" S3 episode I saw with Voyager-J, it's first appearance.

 

[Lord Garth]

Even that's not so clear cut. There's a line in S4 where they discuss things from the logs of the various Enterprises and Voyagers which for some reason The Roddenberry Archive interprets as confirmation of the existence of a 32nd century Enterprise.

My personal theory is there is no longer an Enterprise and Voyager is now Starfleet's flagship. At the very least, Voyager J must be one hell of a prestigious ship since the Federation President is personally responsible for selecting its Captain.

I'm thinking of the line in S5 that I won't talk about.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

There’s no reason to not watch that way, but there's no reason to watch SNW first either, so whatever you feel like is the way to go.

Ultimately, It's just visual shorthand for "the future" - although I think there's a line somewhere about the 32nd ships being more maneuverable, but not much explanation other than that i can recall. Considering the TNG+ ships are supposed to essentially be held together by forcefields anyway, it kind of makes sense to just lose dorsals and struts as unnecessary mass, so i was always ok with it.

#1 I was originally going to pass on the show and streaming Trek, but then Picard happened, so I caved and got CBS All Access before it became Paramount+. I got 2 seasons + a few episodes into S3 and lost touch, focusing on other shows. I'm on my 2nd watch, a few episodes into S2. I've seen all 10 of the shorts, all 3 seasons of Picard, the first 2 seasons of Lower Decks (I started over as it's been a while), and I'm caught up on Prodigy. Each streaming Trek mostly stands apart, but given SNW is born out of Disco's 2nd season, I thought it'd be fun to watch SNW's 2 seasons between Disco's 2nd & 3rd seasons, break the series up into two halves (S1-2 and S3-5).

#2 This is why I love Star Trek, it makes total BS science sound perfectly rational. Good job!!!

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm thinking of the line in S5 that I won't talk about.

I don't remember any reference to a current Enterprise in S5.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't remember any reference to a current Enterprise in S5.

Spoiler

I'm taking about when Kovich says he's Daniels of the "USS Enterprise among other places". I saw no indication that he was talking about anything other than the Present Tense. Implying to me that he's still serves on the Enterprise... among other places.

@Admiral Jean-Luc Picard don't read this.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Spoiler

I'm taking about when Kovich says he's Daniels of the "USS Enterprise among other places". I saw no indication that he was talking about anything other than the Present Tense. Implying to me that he's still serves on the Enterprise... among other places.

@Admiral Jean-Luc Picard don't read this.

I had to click, I couldn't help it. I already got spoiled on this, so it's fine. I'm also watching Enterprise on Blu-ray. Nice to know he grew old after Archer told him to piss-off after Daniels saved reality by sending Archer and friends back in time. Archer could'a been nicer. "of the USS Enterprise among other places" reads like he's probably bounced around time and interacted with multiple Enterprises. For all we know, he could have been a waiter in 10 Forward on the Ent-D.

 

[The Wormhole]

Spoiler

I'm taking about when Kovich says he's Daniels of the "USS Enterprise among other places". I saw no indication that he was talking about anything other than the Present Tense. Implying to me that he's still serves on the Enterprise... among other places.

@Admiral Jean-Luc Picard don't read this.

Spoiler

Yeah, I assumed that was a reference to the NX-01. Though it officially is not supposed to be USS Enterprise, various computer displays later in the series did identify it as such. Likewise, when we see the ship at the Starfleet Museum in Picard's third season it did have "USS Enterprise" on its hull. I think it far more likely Kovich's line is just reflective of the fact the Disco writers, like everyone else now refer to the NX-01 as USS Enterprise rather than a reference to a current Enterprise.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Spoiler

Yeah, I assumed that was a reference to the NX-01. Though it officially is not supposed to be USS Enterprise, various computer displays later in the series did identify it as such. Likewise, when we see the ship at the Starfleet Museum in Picard's third season it did have "USS Enterprise" on its hull. I think it far more likely Kovich's line is just reflective of the fact the Disco writers, like everyone else now refer to the NX-01 as USS Enterprise rather than a reference to a current Enterprise.

File it under Federation uniforms? I honestly like the idea that...

Spoiler

"...he is referring to multiple Enterprises, easier to just say "the USS Enterprise" for simplicity's sake."

 

[Lord Garth]

Spoiler

Yeah, I assumed that was a reference to the NX-01. Though it officially is not supposed to be USS Enterprise, various computer displays later in the series did identify it as such. Likewise, when we see the ship at the Starfleet Museum in Picard's third season it did have "USS Enterprise" on its hull. I think it far more likely Kovich's line is just reflective of the fact the Disco writers, like everyone else now refer to the NX-01 as USS Enterprise rather than a reference to a current Enterprise.

Spoiler

I'll tell you why I disagree. For two reasons:

First reason: The NX-01 was an undercover assignment for Daniels. That would be like an undercover cop telling someone else years after the fact that he works for the drug gang he was infiltrating. This cop didn't work for the drug gang, he was working for the police department. Or to use another example: Garak was a gardener on Romulus, but he was really working for the Obsidian Order. He's not a gardener by occupation, he was only pretending to be. He was a spy. And he didn't work for the Romulans, he worked for the Cardassians. Similarly, Daniels may have been on the NX-01 in the 22nd Century but he was working for Starfleet in the 31st Century.

Second reason: When someone says where they work, unless they say otherwise, it's generally assumed they mean where they currently work. If it's not where they currently work, they'll indicate the past tense and say it's where they worked. But the past has to be indicated or the present will be assumed. One time where this wouldn't be the case would be if someone changed careers and they indicated the last place they worked in a different field. But even there, they'd still refer to it in the past tense.

So those are why I took what Daniels said as referring to a present-day Enterprise, relative to 3191.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Spoiler

I'll tell you why I disagree. For two reasons:

First reason: The NX-01 was an undercover assignment for Daniels. That would be like an undercover cop telling someone else years after the fact that he works for the drug gang he was infiltrating. This cop didn't work for the drug gang, he was working for the police department. Or to use another example: Garak was a gardener on Romulus, but he was really working for the Obsidian Order. He's not a gardener by occupation, he was only pretending to be. He was a spy. And he didn't work for the Romulans, he worked for the Cardassians. Similarly, Daniels may have been on the NX-01 in the 22nd Century but he was working for Starfleet in the 31st Century.

Second reason: When someone says where they work, unless they say otherwise, it's generally assumed they mean where they currently work. If it's not where they currently work, they'll indicate the past tense and say it's where they worked. But the past has to be indicated or the present will be assumed. One time where this wouldn't be the case would be if someone changed careers and someone indicated the last place they worked in a different field. But even there, they'd still refer to it in the past tense.

So those are why I took what Daniels said as referring to a present-day Enterprise, relative to 3191.

That's fair enough. I just assumed he was giving an honest answer and being intentionally vague.

 

[The Wormhole]

Spoiler

I'll tell you why I disagree. For two reasons:

First reason: The NX-01 was an undercover assignment for Daniels. That would be like an undercover cop telling someone else years after the fact that he works for the drug gang he was infiltrating. This cop didn't work for the drug gang, he was working for the police department. Or to use another example: Garak was a gardener on Romulus, but he was really working for the Obsidian Order. He's not a gardener by occupation, he was only pretending to be. He was a spy. And he didn't work for the Romulans, he worked for the Cardassians. Similarly, Daniels may have been on the NX-01 in the 22nd Century but he was working for Starfleet in the 31st Century.

Second reason: When someone says where they work, unless they say otherwise, it's generally assumed they mean where they currently work. If it's not where they currently work, they'll indicate the past tense and say it's where they worked. But the past has to be indicated or the present will be assumed. One time where this wouldn't be the case would be if someone changed careers and they indicated the last place they worked in a different field. But even there, they'd still refer to it in the past tense.

So those are why I took what Daniels said as referring to a present-day Enterprise, relative to 3191.

Spoiler

If he was referring to a current assignment why did he refer to himself as "Agent," his title from his past and not his current rank of Commodore?

 

[Lord Garth]

Spoiler

If he was referring to a current assignment why did he refer to himself as "Agent," his title from his past and not his current rank of Commodore?

Spoiler

Agent is a title, not a rank. He can have the title and position of an agent and also have the rank of Commodore. He can also be a Doctor as well, since it's not out of the question that he has a PhD or the equivalent. Someone can refer to their title without also having to give their rank.

 

[Lord Garth]

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

Spoiler

I looked up how it works in the US Federal Government to see how this works IRL:
link

Cutting-and-pasting:

Like any organization Special Agents have their own organizational hierarchy that might be confusing to those outside of the federal law enforcement community. While the title "Special Agent" exists across the ranks of these organizations, there are titles that signify different positions and supervisory roles.​

Spoiler

After doing more research, it looks like it's not unheard of for someone to be in the military reserves and have a position within the FBI as an Agent.

link

Cutting-and-pasting:

Q: If a military reservist is also an FBI Special Agent and both the military and the FBI need to deploy them for an assignment at the same time, how are such conflicts resolved?​

A: FBI agents, unless they are on some sort of specialized team, don’t “deploy’ overseas or anywhere else. Sometimes they are loaned out to another office for short periods of time (Charlie Winstead was on loan to Melvin Purvis from the Oklahoma City Office when he shot Dillinger) .​

But agents in the Reserves or National Guard aren’t on teams they would deploy. And, as I understand it, their military commitment comes 1st.​

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Are we really comparing a time traveler in the 32nd century to modern-day government agents?

 

[Lord Garth]

Are we really comparing a time traveler in the 32nd century to modern-day government agents?

Only thing we have to go with, and he hasn't been a time-traveller in over 120 years. But this is getting way off-track.