I just watched "Kitumba" again and I noticed that Vic Mignogna and Michelle Specht weren't given credit until deep into the end credits. Both played characters extremely essential to the plot and Vic was the director. Does anyone know the reason for this? I have to assume it has something to do with their later involvement in STC. In any case, it's still the best episode yet of NV and it's James Cawley's best performance as Kirk (shame it's also his last).
Question about "Kitumba"
- Thread starter D'Ger
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Long story, but there was a huge falling out re the New Voyages/Phase II people which culminated with Vic releasing a "Director's Cut" edit of the film without the blessing of the NV people, and when the NV version came out Vic and Michelle's credits were buried at the end, and Vic was not given the traditional director credit at the top of the first act.
When Vic released his Director's Cut the film was prefaced with the following:
When Vic released his Director's Cut the film was prefaced with the following:
This is about the most anti-ST: New Voyages/pro-Vic version of events that could have been set out. Not mentioned, for example, was Vic's sole possession of the original filmed footage and his refusal to share it with the Star Trek New Voyages group. So yes, for years ST: New Voyages could not put out their own edited version or offer edits to Vic's because they did not have possession of the original footage, and Vic ignored repeated requests for that footage.
Let's be fair here. Nobody involved with Kitumba (at least the PR nightmare surrounding its release) comes out looking very good except for maybe Greg Schnitzer who at least tries to be cordial and diplomatic in all communications. It was an ugly situation all around with parties from each side behaving rather poorly in the grand scheme of things.
There had been considerable frustration and animosity between James and Vic. Vic did a nice edit of "Kitumba" and James wanted changes. (With all our episodes, James has reserved the right to Final Cut.). Vic only presented his cut to James and couldn't/wouldn't provide all the takes and raw footage to James for James to make his desired changes. It went on for a while--irresistible force and immovable object. Ultimately, Vic released his edit to the team that made the episode--but it got more widely disseminated than just to local Friendlies.
Things finally came to a head when I was able to broker a deal between the two productions to retrieve all the original footage. Some months later, we finally released our own edit of "Kitumba" which met with James' approval. By then the relationship was fairly well poisoned--and the credits soft-pedaled qVic and Michele's involvement.
Officially, I neither know nor care where Vic's early edit of "Kitumba" can be obtained.
Well thank you for securing the footage, I really enjoyed watching it
Okay, let's be fair.
I was HEAVILY INVOLVED on KITUMBA from the beginning, as both the lead Guest Star and the VFX Supervisor (along with Tobias Richter), and I was there for ALL of the drama between Vic ad P2; in fact I was directly involved.
AT NO POINT have I ever gone on the internet or anywhere else and said anything about that situation, or badmouthed Vic or the STC group, as it simply was not worth it to me as a working professional in the film industry.
So, right there, you're statement is wrong, and unfair. Lots of us stayed out of it, and to draw all of us at P2 with the same brush is wrong.
You're right of course, Pony. My apologies.
I should amend my earlier comment -- Nobody involve with Kitumba in the higher echelons at New Voyages (i.e. its producers) comes out looking very good in the PR nightmare that ensued because of the dustup with Vic.
As I recall you accorded yourself very positively and very well upon the film's release. Again, my apologies for not being more specific with my previous comment.
I should amend my earlier comment -- Nobody involve with Kitumba in the higher echelons at New Voyages (i.e. its producers) comes out looking very good in the PR nightmare that ensued because of the dustup with Vic.
As I recall you accorded yourself very positively and very well upon the film's release. Again, my apologies for not being more specific with my previous comment.
If you can find "Vic's edit" of Kitumba out there anywhere to watch, we'd like to hear about it. He received C&Ds from both the writer and the production studio. (the most notable difference was that he removed some key performances by other actors.) The crux of the issue was he believed he owned the footage and the rights to the edit, and the studio believed they owned the footage and the rights to the edit.
The final edit, due to time and a lot of other issues, still ends up not having all the footage in it either. It's possible the final editor didn't realize it was supposed to be a 75 minute episode. The end is shortened and looses all it's tension and timing. Cest le vive.
The final edit, due to time and a lot of other issues, still ends up not having all the footage in it either. It's possible the final editor didn't realize it was supposed to be a 75 minute episode. The end is shortened and looses all it's tension and timing. Cest le vive.
I would love to see Vic's edit. I have been searching for a couple years, but to no avail. I love edits and different directorial takes on things. The director's cut of "Serve All My Days" is fantastic. It took me quite awhile to track down just a low res cut of Jack Marshall's Star Trek V edit, which I think I've watched more often then the actual movie.
I also heard there was a fan cut of Kitumba, made from the *released episode* that made for a nice action packed, well paced, 50 minute episode cut, but that was removed at P2's request, as well. I can never get enough of alternate takes, deleted footage and unreleased stuff... I've been curious since I've heard about it. Not meaning any disrespect to anyone's wishes or visions, of course.
I also heard there was a fan cut of Kitumba, made from the *released episode* that made for a nice action packed, well paced, 50 minute episode cut, but that was removed at P2's request, as well. I can never get enough of alternate takes, deleted footage and unreleased stuff... I've been curious since I've heard about it. Not meaning any disrespect to anyone's wishes or visions, of course.
I liked Mignogna's version, plus his Klingon was very impressive. A highlight of Kitumba IMO. I would love to see a similar kind of energy with his STC series.Long story, but there was a huge falling out re the New Voyages/Phase II people which culminated with Vic releasing a "Director's Cut" edit of the film without the blessing of the NV people, and when the NV version came out Vic and Michelle's credits were buried at the end, and Vic was not given the traditional director credit at the top of the first act.
When Vic released his Director's Cut the film was prefaced with the following:
This may be a dumb question, but... if P2 did get all the footage back, could they go back and release a full 75-minute "special edition" version or something? (Keeping in mind I don't fully understand what would all be involved in that...) It seems odd that if they've got all the assets available, they wouldn't want a version out there that restores the "tension and timing" of the ending. (Saying that, I do understand they're all volunteers and do this on their personal time.)
Part of the problem is that there are little pieces missing/unfilmed. A hypothetical: Kirk runs into an empty room and looks around. He turns to Spock to ask him a question and chat. But Spock didn't run into the room with Kirk. We neglected to get a "Spock runs into the room to join Kirk" shot. Longer edit includes the Kirk-Spock chatting scene even though Spock's sudden appearance standing next to Kirk is nonsensical. Shorter edit says entire scene was unimportant anyway--especially since it has nonsensical continuity. Scene is not in final edit--and its inclusion would only make for a crappier but longer episode.
Available shots (and necessary but unavailable shots) only became apparent when all footage was received. By then, we just wanted the damn thing out the door--when our solution normally would've been to get necessary pickup shots. After years of an impasse, we were losing interest.
It does raise an interesting question, though. Would you like a 75-minute "Special Edition?" Or would you like us to film a new episode?
Available shots (and necessary but unavailable shots) only became apparent when all footage was received. By then, we just wanted the damn thing out the door--when our solution normally would've been to get necessary pickup shots. After years of an impasse, we were losing interest.
It does raise an interesting question, though. Would you like a 75-minute "Special Edition?" Or would you like us to film a new episode?
I probably mis spoke, but it was just an edit made from the footage in the released episode, with some talky exposition taken out and some quicker scene cuts, i imagine. I haven't seen it, which is why I am still curious. My preferred version of Final Frontier is the fan edit that brings it down to "pilot episode" length. Pacing can change the feel of an episode.
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Pacing and geography were definitely Kitumba's biggest issues. Too much transporting back and forth from the ship to the planet. I'd be interested in seeing a pared down version, too.
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