Quark: DS9's Raisonneur?

[Withers]

"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts... deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers... put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time... and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes..."

This, for me, is the defining moment for Quark. It is here that his characters position is affirmed and set in stone. Quark has a unique perspective on the entire STU. From his position as a profit seeking bartender he is able to assess the the people he interacts with in a way that would be unfair for anyone else to do. Consider that Quark is the only character who is exactly the same in the Mirror Universe. He has an agenda, yes, and his methods are often criminal- but there is a line he will not cross and there is a certain altruism in his behavior. Unlike Garak he wears his “darker side” as the mask to hide the observant, even gentle nature under the surface. It is the ultimate accomplishment of this character that he not only notes what he does but that he does so in a fashion that is neither derogatory nor unfounded. What he says, in my opinion, is as true as anything said of human beings in the STU by any character on any series.


I really liked Quark and it is a testament to the writers of DS9 that a seemingly villainous character very contrary to our heroes was able to be utilized most often in a comedic fashion but also occasionally in a very serious and thoughtful fashion as well.It is in this way that I think he speaks on behalf of the shows creators as their character within the show, voicing to the audience their take on mankind.



Your thoughts on Quark?

-Withers-​

 

[Anwar]

He's a major hypocrite when it comes to criticisms of humanity, and the main reason people like it (and don't bother to see the hypocrisy) is because they love the idea of humans being scumbags in Trek compared to every single alien race out there. All that BS about humans being bad because of slavery and war? The Ferengi do those things to the modern day. He has no right to judge.

It's like Spock in TOS: He hypocritically went on about human barbarism and no one ever called him on the fact that Vulcans historically were FAR worse than humanity EVER was. You'd think McCoy would've done this at least ONCE.

 

[Withers]

That isn't the point though; his being a hypocrite doesn't make what he says about humanity untrue. How can I rephrase this...

Alright, take the worst person anyone can imagine, say... Hitler; if Hitler had declared that the world we live on is round does that then become untrue because Hitler is a monster? It doesn't right? Well, via the quote provided above, Quark's statement about humanity is fair and very plainly true. He qualifies his statement every step of the way. It's true in the 24th century because it is true now.

I doubt anybody thinks of Quark as an angel or purposefully looks beyond his shortcomings because they just have some masochistic desire to call human beings "scumbags." Isn't it more likely (a simpler explanation) that what he's saying just true and that's why they agree with it rather than some hidden sinister agenda that requires omission of things?

The same is true of Spock; just because Vulcans aren't exactly angels doesn't mean they can't comment on the barbarity of humans.

-Withers-​

 

[Anwar]

My problem was that no one ever bothered to call either of them on their hypocrisy. If they did and both they and the humans had their mutual begrudging agreements on their shortcomings it would be more tolerable. As it is, they come off as hypocritical arrogant douchebags no one bothered standing up to.

 

[Withers]

It wasn't like Quark (Spock did what I'm about to say to my utter disapproval a lot) railed on humans constantly. By the time the Dominion War started he was a big fan of the Federation to the point he told Odo and Kira he missed them and Garak that he hoped they could save him. In these very tense moments he lets fly his thoughts on humanity and to refute that by saying "Yeah but you're just as bad" wouldn't have been appropriate... I mean, nothing could ruin a poignant scene more quickly than the addition of the line "NO YOU ARE!"

Spock... well, don't get me started; I'm the wrong guy to stand up for anything that came from TOS save WoK and TUC. He was forever going on about the short comings and illogical nature of humans to the point that I got sick of hearing about it and very much, as you did apparently, wanted someone to tell him to STFU to greater effect than McCoy ever did. With Spock that seemed constant. Quark has two examples which are considerably less bias in one and said only in the heat of the moment in the other.

-Withers-​

 

[Anwar]

I think Sisko should have hit him with a "Tell that to Ferengi women" in "The Jem'Hadar" since that wasn't a tense war moment but Quark taking a cheap shot at Sisko.

The second line to Nog during the war, I admit it wasn't THAT insulting and was more about human drive to survive against adversaries. But Nog might've made an innocent comment about "Well, what about the Klingons when they don't have their stomachs full?" and Quark would give him a "You don't wanna know" look.

 

[Withers]

I think the difference is that there aren't any Klingons or Ferengi watching the show. Only human beings are watching the show so if what is said about humans is true and light can be brought to an otherwise untouched aspect of humanity then it is irrelevant that the source is a fictional character who's fictional race committed fictional hypocrisy.

-Withers-​

 

[Anwar]

It would be nice for the writers themselves to acknowledge that the other aliens have their fair share of nastiness while bringing some darkness to human nature in the show. Shows they aren't just ignoring series fundamentals for mere author filibuster.

 

[indolover]

Quark was good as comic relief, which was IMO the character's main purpose in the show. But i think from Quark's standpoint, it was counter-remarks made by humans towards Ferengi.

if one thinks about it, most human Starfleet personnel in all shows look down on and even mock the Ferengi. Quark was right to point this out to Sisko. Ferengi in the shows do appear greedy, even callous and unprincipled, but humans in the real world are the same. I think Quark was mentioning that despite humans more evolved state in the 24th century, human history was far from peaceful.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

It would be nice for the writers themselves to acknowledge that the other aliens have their fair share of nastiness while bringing some darkness to human nature in the show. Shows they aren't just ignoring series fundamentals for mere author filibuster.

But that's just it: with the possible exception of Vulcans, just about every humanoid race in trek has been shown to be somehow less than humans. Quark's observation about humans in this episode are so memorable because they come after seasons of him seeming to be little more than a hairless weasel and comic relief.

 

[Anwar]

Well, I can excuse the hostility from the ENT-D towards the Ferengi as being less racism and more them being actual enemies for a while when they first showed up. Soldiers are SUPPOSED to be hostile towards one another, and it was hardly one-sided.

Afterwards, I suppose it's just lingering hostility from before (it wasn't THAT long ago the Ferengi were attacking Fed ships and stealing stuff from them).

 

[C_Miller]

I always liked Quark. For some reason he seems to get some of the best writing on the series making me thing that the writers liked him too. He was a good character to act as the voice of the writers as far as their thoughts go. One of the things I really like is his relationship with Odo. They have an antagonistic relationship, but they seem to be each others only real friends at times.

In A Man Alone Quark openly defends Odo and says that he's probably the closest thing Odo has to a friend. In Vortex he shows a deep respect for Odo over the fact that he never gives up his prisoners and gets mad at Rom when he says that they'll kill Odo and then he'll be out of their way. In Crossfire, he was the first to talk to Odo over the Kira/Shakaar thing. In Broken Link, Quark offers his best wishes for a speedy return in his own way. And I would argue that in The Ascent, Quark completes the task more for Odo than himself. I'm sure there are tons of others, but those were off the top of my head. I really appreciate their complex relationship.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

The reason I appreciate how Quark was handled is that the writers did indeed respect his Ferenginess even though he was the default villain. Quark is the good traditional Ferengi, who tries to live by the rules and customs of his culture (and doesn't go to extremes like Gaila or Brunt either). His family, on the other hand, are all non-traditionalists. Rom wants to be nice to people for the sake of being nice- and finally realizes he's happier fixing things and marrying a Bajoran than he is living the Ferengi way (at least the younger brother position; eldest male comes first in Ferengi society every time). Nog decides freely given service is for him rather than profit or business being the core of his life. Ishka (moogie) wants females to have the same opportunities as males. In a way, even though we support all three in their attempts to break tradition (and Quark attempting to sabotage their attempts makes him the villain of the piece), the writers also helped us sort of feel sorry for Quark. He just wants to be a good Ferengi, yet his family cause him endless grief by...well, by giving and rejecting profit and taking up Federation or Bajoran beliefs or doing any number of things "inappropriate" to Ferengi (in Ishka's case, "inappropriate" for a Ferengi woman specifically). And while we cheer when Rom leaves the bar to be an engineer, or when he stands up to Quark after the whole sabotaging-Nog's-entry-exam thing, or when Nog declares he'll never follow Rom into Quark's shadow, or when Moogie wins the right for females to earn profit, etc, we also sympathise with Quark's desire to be "a Ferengi" as a Ferengi is traditionally defined.

Quark was treated with dignity a lot of the time, despite being the greedy, exploitative, sexist, money-grabbing controlling crook. That's what I like about the show's handling of him.

 

[Teiwaz]

I'm a big fan of the Ferengi characters in DS9.
Quark fills the mythological space of Loki, the trickster, and divine fool. Fool he may be on many occassion but the divine fool sees clearly.

Star Trek has always had it's 'outsider' character, observing humanity. Spock was there to be 'judge' of humanities recent efforts, perhaps reminding them that they haven't actually evolved only their approach to eachother and the universe has changed. Whether or not that was well handled, it debatable.

STNG had Data as the primary observer (another without emotions (only in many ways Spock could only protest he had no emotions when actually he only repressed them). Worf as an outsider as well could have given another interesting perspective but I do'nt believe that was ever attempted. Both characters were trying to fit in, Data to be more human, Worf to find some middle ground as he couldn't abandon either the species that adopted him or his own people. Sadly for him, he always found himself with no other option than to choose against his own people (or take action that would put distance between him and his own people) in almost every story (this continued into DS9).
As if to prove that humanity had not evolved and, given enough of a threat, the old ways could return there was the Drumhead episode.

DS9 Has Odo and Quark as observers, and to a lesser extent Garrick and Kira. All four were outsiders to the federation. Odo was an outsider to all 'solids' being a shapeshifter and his observations at numerous, although not always that enlightening food and mating were the main things he repeatedly said he didn't understand how humanoids could be so engrossed in (good job he probably learned how much satisfaction can be achieved from a good dump). Garrick was almost from the other side of the front line, almost into the enemies camp, yet not. And Kira from the perspective of somebody to find allies in th federation from a planet that was suspicious of imperialism and in two minds about the UFP.

 

[Navaros]

Quark is an amazing character and was played immaculately by Shimerman.

I find Quark to generally be extremely under-rated. He's easily one of DS9's most interesting, most complex, and best-played characters. Granted, DS9 does have a whole lot of those.

Even so, I'll never understand why masterpiece episodes of DS9 that are character studies of Quark, I.e. Bar Association, Business as Usual, Body Parts, nary get a mention yet much more shallow episodes like "The Magnificent Ferengi" get raved about constantly. Maybe it's because many people only see Quark as a comedy character and therefore cannot appreciate the vast complexity that Shimerman wove into the perfomance?

That might explain why House of Quark is the one masterpiece character study episode that does get raved about (and rightly so) - because it is 'funny' too.

I never get bored when Quark is on-screen, and that is not because I expect him to be 'funny.' That is because Shimerman makes him an inherently fascinating as a person.

 

[Anwar]

Nah, he wasn't that good. I liked Guinan more.

House of Quark was good for a half-hearted laugh, but not much else.

 

[Navaros]

Actually House of Quark is wonderful for showing how Quark is a compassionate, honorable, and brave person. All that makes him extremely deep and complex since those are not qualities that he is known for. He is also extremely deep and complex in terms of his business dealings.

Guinan, on the other hand, has no depth or complexity at all.

 

[muzzleflash]

He's a major hypocrite when it comes to criticisms of humanity, and the main reason people like it (and don't bother to see the hypocrisy) is because they love the idea of humans being scumbags in Trek compared to every single alien race out there. All that BS about humans being bad because of slavery and war? The Ferengi do those things to the modern day. He has no right to judge.

Quark is not being a hypocrite. He never said humanity was any better or worse than his own species. He's pointing out the hypocrisy of humanity's perspective of itself (in the 24th century STU). The Ferengi have no delusions about their own way of life.

 

[Withers]

They never explained anything about Guinan. There's a difference between being enigmatic and just being undeveloped. Several interesting implications were made about Guinan, like her relationship with Q, but there was never any follow up- never any "hard" explanation for how she knew what she did. Fan extrapolation was the closest thing to answers ever had in regard to Guinan.

So, yeah, with Quark we go layers and revelation. With Guinan we got an interesting build up with no pay off.

-Withers-​

 

[Teiwaz]

From Dictionary.reference.com:

rai·son·neur   [rez-uh-nur; Fr. re-zaw-nœr]
–noun,plural-neurs  [-nurz; Fr. -nœr]
a character in a play, novel, or the like who voices the central theme, philosophy, or point of view of the work.

All that BS about humans being bad because of slavery and war? The Ferengi do those things to the modern day. He has no right to judge.

Quark is not being a hypocrite. He never said humanity was any better or worse than his own species. He's pointing out the hypocrisy of humanity's perspective of itself (in the 24th century STU). The Ferengi have no delusions about their own way of life.

Actually Quark did express an opinion that humans had done things in the past far worse than the Ferengi Alliance had.
He later stated he thought that humans were a nice people, but pointed out that they could be driven to darkness as far along the other side of the scale if the situation drove them to it.

That's not the negative comment it seems to be, what he's saying is that the range potential of humans far outstrips that of his own race, and that we are capable of being either demons of despicable acts or angels of light.

Ferengi labour contracts are not really any more less unfair than pre-union industrial earth job conditions, 19th century Britain as a good example, and it wasn't until mid way through that century that the child labour laws came into effect.
I can't see the Ferengi at war with anybody, but if other species just happened to be at war, the Ferengi would no doubt be at hand to sell weapons to either side, after all, both war and peace are good for business.

Just finished up to end Season 4 - Body Parts really moves Quark further from his people and closer to the station, we really see that despite his protestations, he resembles his own non-conformist family more than he realises.

And yes, therefore I do believe Quark is DS9's raisonneur, at least as far as the shows comments on humanity go, his insights are always more insightful than Odo's. Although I do look forward to Odo's future insights after the events of Broken Link, provided he can get over his self-pity.