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Pretty simple ways to identify changelings

NewHeavensNewEarth

Commodore
Commodore
As DS9 progressed and the writers decided where to go with Odo's people, they retconned a lot to make the Founders seem almost impossible to identify. But going by earlier seasons, there are some pretty simple ways one could've identified a Founder who was in disguise:
- taste test. Odo said he had no sense of taste.
- smell test. Odo also said he had no sense of smell.
- digestive test. Odo said he had no digestive system, and that it was disastrous when he did try to eat and drink. Bring on some Sisko's Creole Kitchen! :lol:
- cohesion test. Given that changelings had to regenerate after a certain number of hours, attach something like a "matter cohesion monitor" for people to wear whom the Founders might have wanted to replace.
- Betazoid test. Lwaxana said she couldn't read Odo. Have a group of Betazoids scan the minds/emotions of people in question. (And make it a group, in case 1 Betazoid was replaced.) Also perhaps the reason the Dominion occupied Betazed? :shrug:
- DNA test. In the episode "A Man Alone," a major plot point was that Odo was considered as a murder suspect because his DNA was in the holosuite where the murder occurred. And presumably this would've reverted to its gelatinous state. Later in the series, this would've made all the blood sampling irrelevant, but the audience was expected to forget about it (all the way back in season 1).
- transporter test. A transporter should be able to identify a subject down to their DNA patterns. Are we supposed to believe the Founders could mimic someone down to their DNA level? :rolleyes:
- excretion tests. :ack: Sorry to be gross, but since changelings didn't have some basic humanoid systems (as described above), it seems like perspiration and certain bathroom stinkers would've been quite telling.

But the Founders should've simply replaced Odo, as the easiest strategy of hiding in plain sight. They did it once, but never again. And within all the paranoia being expressed in "Paradise Lost" and similar episodes, the possibility of Odo being replaced is never given a second thought, even though it would've been a valid concern and a sound Dominion strategy.

Other ways to identify a changeling?
 
Odo is an inexperienced shapeshifter. I would expect a real one to mimic all bodily function.

And "everybody poops" is not true in the Star Trek universe.
Mimic is one thing. Actual sweating and peeing is another! :lol:

Obviously if they wanted to replace one of the countless humans that dominate Starfleet, that would be a pooping species. Or are you referring to the glaring lack of bathrooms in general in Trekverse? (Such a fun topic here...)
 
For my part, I'm not sure if relying on sensory tests would be ideal. There are a number of diseases/conditions (real and fictional) that can interfere with a person's sense of taste, if only temporarily. The clone of Kahless was apparently unable to taste the difference between real bloodwine and the replicated version on the Enterprise, which Worf seemed to regard as an inferior copy.

Another problem is that different species might process taste or smell differently, so any fault in a Founder's impersonation could be construed as simply variations. Garak and Quark both seemed to find root beer excessively unpleasing, though Quark might have just hated its human associations since Rom and Nog both developed a taste for human cuisine. Worf seemed to be the only one who liked Riker's breakfast in "Time Squared." :D
 
DS9 made a big deal about blood tests and that seemed to be the best way to quickly perform an analysis. Another good test is just observing one for over 24 hours, they need to liquefy after 18 hours so eventually they will just turn into a puddle. This method would only be useful for prisoners or people in a surveilled environment of course.
 
Another good test is just observing one for over 24 hours, they need to liquefy after 18 hours so eventually they will just turn into a puddle. This method would only be useful for prisoners or people in a surveilled environment of course.

Wasn't it 16 hours?
 
The transporter test would probably be sufficient in and of itself, given that it's scanning and recreating the person down to the molecular level.

A brainwave scan would work better anyway. According to Beverly, those can't really be duplicated. If they were just testing secretions like urine and sweat, a changeling could outwit those the same way they do blood: kill the person they're replacing and then absorb some of the required substance beforehand. Then, pee or perspire when instructed.
 
Basically all of these tests wouldn’t be reliable: the supposed limitations are actually just Odo’s limitations, not of all of the changelings.

It’s made very clear at several points that when a changeling assumes a form they ARE in fact that form, so they would register as fully human when in human form, brainwaves and all. Odo doesn’t because he’s a pretty lousy channeling.

Also, the transporter doesn’t scan and replicate: it converts matter into energy and would do so without issue with a changeling in human form.

Sure, detached parts revert to liquid form, but nothing stops the channeling to just keep blood or other organic material inside themselves to get around those tests, which is exactly what they eventually do.

the only sensible test would be locking someone in and observing for a day, but even that might fail: who knows for how long a skilled changeling can actually hold a shape?
 
I've never been able to buy that Federation equipment, which is able to scan matter even on a quantum level, would be incapable of distinguishing a founder imitating someone or -thing from the genuine person or object. Even when they 'are' that rock, there still should be traces of their 'morfogenetic matrix', or whatever - otherwise, how could it ever change back? I find the notion that there would be no way to trace it utterly ridiculous.

But of course it's great for storytelling, so I can understand why they did it.
 
That’s because it doesn’t scan: it converts into energy and back. This has been addressed multiple times by tptb and even on enterprise and tng, yet someone still insists with that nonsense from the 70s.
 
^I'm not necessarily talking about transporters. I'm also thinking of scanning equipment, which does scan matter. Even tricorders are usually capable of fairly advanced analyses (though not perhaps down to the quantum level), so a higher powered version probably could do still more.
 
Ah then yes. But as mentioned above, a good changeling effectively becomes what they have changed into, down to a pretty deep level, so they would be hard to identify with a scan.
 
First of all, Odo was an inexperienced changeling....

- taste test. Odo said he had no sense of taste.
There are people, and probably certain alien species who lost/never had it, or don't taste things well. Also, they could easily imitate an alien race who the Starfleet weren't familiar with. How would they know how things taste to them...

- smell test. Odo also said he had no sense of smell.
see above

- digestive test. Odo said he had no digestive system, and that it was disastrous when he did try to eat and drink. Bring on some Sisko's Creole Kitchen! :lol:
As some mentioned, a more experienced changeling would be able to handle food.

- cohesion test. Given that changelings had to regenerate after a certain number of hours, attach something like a "matter cohesion monitor" for people to wear whom the Founders might have wanted to replace.
Too impractical, and an experienced changeling would be able to get around it, perhaps figure out how to put it on and still fool Starfleet.

- Betazoid test. Lwaxana said she couldn't read Odo. Have a group of Betazoids scan the minds/emotions of people in question. (And make it a group, in case 1 Betazoid was replaced.) Also perhaps the reason the Dominion occupied Betazed? :shrug:
There are alien species Betazoids can't read, not to mention more experienced changelings might be able to fool Betazoids

- DNA test. In the episode "A Man Alone," a major plot point was that Odo was considered as a murder suspect because his DNA was in the holosuite where the murder occurred. And presumably this would've reverted to its gelatinous state. Later in the series, this would've made all the blood sampling irrelevant, but the audience was expected to forget about it (all the way back in season 1).
Watch the episode again. Odo has no DNA. He was considered only because he concluded that only he could have gotten and out after analyzing the access logs.

- transporter test. A transporter should be able to identify a subject down to their DNA patterns. Are we supposed to believe the Founders could mimic someone down to their DNA level? :rolleyes:
That's a lot of work, and they could get someone to manipulate the computer and create a false negative.

- excretion tests. :ack: Sorry to be gross, but since changelings didn't have some basic humanoid systems (as described above), it seems like perspiration and certain bathroom stinkers would've been quite telling.
We saw a changeling use someone else's blood (or at least something they passed off as blood).....They could have done the same with poop (or fake poop). As for sweat....they could easily take in air, humidity and simulate sweating...

But the Founders should've simply replaced Odo, as the easiest strategy of hiding in plain sight. They did it once, but never again. And within all the paranoia being expressed in "Paradise Lost" and similar episodes, the possibility of Odo being replaced is never given a second thought, even though it would've been a valid concern and a sound Dominion strategy.

Other ways to identify a changeling?
To replace Odo, they'd have to do something to the real Odo. It was made clear they didn't want to harm Odo... So replacing him probably was a nonstarter.
 
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To replace Odo, they'd have to do something to the real Odo. It was made clear they didn't want to harm Odo... So replacing him probably was a nonstarter.

Do something to him, yes, but not necessarily harm him. They simply could have abducted him and brought him home to the Link (preventing his escape, of course). I suppose the greater challenge would have been to escape unnoticed, with Odo resisting for all he was worth.

Also, they weren't above converting him to a solid, which could be construed as 'harming' him in a way.
 
First of all, Odo was an inexperienced changeling....

There are people, and probably certain alien species who lost/never had it, or don't taste things well. Also, they could easily imitate an alien race who the Starfleet weren't familiar with. How would they know how things taste to them...

see above

As some mentioned, a more experienced changeling would be able to handle food.

Too impractical, and an experienced changeling would be able to get around it, perhaps figure out how to put it on and still fool Starfleet.

There are alien species Betazoids can't read, not to mention more experienced changelings might be able to fool Betazoids

Watch the episode again. Odo has no DNA. He was considered only because he concluded that only he could have gotten and out after analyzing the access logs.

That's a lot of work, and they could get someone to manipulate the computer and create a false negative.

We saw a changeling use someone else's blood (or at least something they passed off as blood).....They could have done the same with poop (or fake poop). As for sweat....they could easily take in air, humidity and simulate sweating...

To replace Odo, they'd have to do something to the real Odo. It was made clear they didn't want to harm Odo... So replacing him probably was a nonstarter.
Sorry but you're wrong on pretty much all of that, for the simple fact that 99% of the people whom the Founders replaced were humans. So of course it's possible to find exceptions, but in an organization like Starfleet that was dominated by humans, these are pretty useful & easy tests.

You should take your own advice and watch "A Man Alone" again. From the episode:
"It's a pretty neat package. His calendar shows he was planning to meet with me at the time of the murder. No one except a shape-shifter could get into the holosuite. And since I'd obviously be called there after the body was discovered, traces of my DNA wind up at the scene of the crime." It's mentioned elsewhere in the episode as well.

I appreciate the willingness to suspend common sense for the sake of compelling storytelling, but @at Quark's was making some important points. In daily life, a master craftsman can make clay look like a perfect nose, but does that mean it automatically has the sense of smell? Of course not. And reproducing an image is not the same as duplicating that person down to their DNA. That's a huge leap. But hey, it's Star Trek, so huge leaps are what we do as fans (myself included). ;)
 
Sorry but you're wrong on pretty much all of that, for the simple fact that 99% of the people whom the Founders replaced were humans. So of course it's possible to find exceptions, but in an organization like Starfleet that was dominated by humans, these are pretty useful & easy tests.

You should take your own advice and watch "A Man Alone" again. From the episode:
"It's a pretty neat package. His calendar shows he was planning to meet with me at the time of the murder. No one except a shape-shifter could get into the holosuite. And since I'd obviously be called there after the body was discovered, traces of my DNA wind up at the scene of the crime." It's mentioned elsewhere in the episode as well.

I appreciate the willingness to suspend common sense for the sake of compelling storytelling, but @at Quark's was making some important points. In daily life, a master craftsman can make clay look like a perfect nose, but does that mean it automatically has the sense of smell? Of course not. And reproducing an image is not the same as duplicating that person down to their DNA. That's a huge leap. But hey, it's Star Trek, so huge leaps are what we do as fans (myself included). ;)

Alright, they mentioned Odo's DNA in that episode. But my post still stands as they could easily find a way around it like with the blood sample. They are not going to do tests without the suspects knowing it (or they'd be violating the rights of innocent citizens and starfleet officers all the time) It's true most of the people changelings impersonated on the show were Humans...for obvious reasons, but not in universe. It's highly likely they used another species as well.

You seem to be ignoring what I'm saying about smell and taste. It's not about fake noses or tongues. Tasting and smelling aren't exactly universal, either within Humanity, or especially alien species especially on a space station with aliens not familiar to Starfleet passing through time to time.

This is not about taking a big leap or suspending common sense. Believing that the founders would only pretend to be Humans would be....
 
Nothing more basic than employing a good old dog to sniff them out. I have every confidence any breed could be trained to do so with complete accuracy.
 
Didn't Odo turn into a dog once?

Plus it wouldn't work on that shapeshifting alien we saw on TNG...
 
DS9 made a big deal about blood tests and that seemed to be the best way to quickly perform an analysis. Another good test is just observing one for over 24 hours, they need to liquefy after 18 hours so eventually they will just turn into a puddle. This method would only be useful for prisoners or people in a surveilled environment of course.
No changeling has ever on screen been correctly identified by a blood test, and it has been used by changelings multiple times to plan false suspicion.

But yes, Star Trek technology is only as advanced as the plot would have it.
 
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