original alien planet surface sound sadly never released :(

[billsantos]

Four years ago I last posted a thread concerning Star Trek's alien planet surface sound. At that time, I think I talked about the sound being heard in the initial beam down in "The Cage" as well as throughout much of the series. However, aside from an abbreviated version on the GNP Sound Effects CD, this original, low tone sound effect has never been released.

A year ago, a friend bought the La La Land CD's and called me to say that there was an alien planet surface released on it. Excited, I couldn't wait to audition the two tracks he said were on the CD. However, I quickly discovered that, upon listening, these were the higher tone alien planet surface sounds and not the low tone ones I've been seeking for years.

The sounds are very similar to the higher tone versions as there is pitch bending, but there are additional tones mixed in at the lower frequencies. No doubt the same early synth Jack Cookerly made was used, but to my knowledge this lower tone version has never been released.

Any ideas why? Might the tracks have been lost in the fire Paramount had at one time? Obviously, some form of it existed, although fairly faint and mixed with the higher alien surface sound, on the GNP CD, but that's not the original.

Really would like to get my hands on those tracks. There are two versions that I know of: at the first beam down in "The Cage" is one version mixed with the higher; at the end of "The Cage" is the version without the highs and used throughout many episodes during the series.

Bill

 

[FormerLurker]

It's not the "Cage" sound without the humming plants.

 

[Maurice]

They're still out there. Is it this one? Or maybe this one?

 

[billsantos]

They're still out there. Is it this one? Or maybe this one?

Neither one of those are it. The second one starts to get there, but that's not original. The original was about a 35 second loop with each half octave bend accompanied by different and distinctive notes.

 

[Maurice]

They're still out there. Is it this one? Or maybe this one?

Neither one of those are it. The second one starts to get there, but that's not original. The original was about a 35 second loop with each half octave bend accompanied by different and distinctive notes.

What about these?

One?
Two?

 

[billsantos]

Well, if you take away the chimes and wind, the background represents about 12 seconds of the original loop. They looped it down to the 12 sec for the effect found on the CD. BTW, it's a lot more difficult to narrow down any of the sound effects on the CD/DVD/Blu Ray because Paramount remixed most of the original sounds and they are no longer the same sound. VHS tapes have the originals as they were. Once I'm back on my desktop later, I'll post the sound I'm talking about although it won't be very good because of being pulled from an early DVD, so very compressed and lacks frequency range.

 

[Maurice]

I think the problem is that you're asking for something that doesn't exist outside the episode mix.

 

[billsantos]

After spending quite some time searching, I tend to agree. Whatever happened to it I don't know as I thought surely it would have been part of the La La release, but no. My guess is that those particular tracks are either lost, or were destroyed during the fire the studio had some years ago because no one now seems to be offering it.

 

[Maurice]

I don't understand why you think the La La Land set would have included such sound effects. That as a music compilation, after all.

The GNP Crescendo Sound Effects disc iscludes but a subset of the effects used on the show and the various mixes of same. I have a dozen Trek planet atmosphere tracks, and you can tell that many are different mixes of the same elements.

One thing a lot of people misunderstand is that a lot of the TOS sound effects were stock library elements and not unique to the show. The now iconic bridge ambience can be heard in shows made years before Trek... The raw elements may well exist but they may not all be owned by Desilu/Paramount/CBS.

 

[billsantos]

Finally got around to uploading it here:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=01498750455063313630

Yes, I'm aware that many effects were in movies and shows before Trek. The original bridge sound, as heard in "Where No Man..." could also be heard in some earlier sci fi movies as well as the pilot episode of Hawaii Five-O. This sound, however, was created for Trek by Doug Grindstaff while they were making the first pilot. I have never heard it anywhere before or since the show. The pitch bending instrument used was undoubtedly the same one used to create the higher tone transporter effect, just lower frequency and with some added tonal qualities mixed in. Why it has never appeared on any release remains a mystery since it was created exclusively for Trek.

 

[GSchnitzer]

I don't understand why you think the La La Land set would have included such sound effects. That is a music compilation, after all.

The La-La-Land liner notes throw a little light on the subject....

"During post production on 'The Cage,' Courage suggested that some of the sound effects should be produced through musical means. He supervised a five-member ensemble in an evening session on January 12, 1965, and recorded additional effects following his orchestra sessions for 'The Cage,' 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' and 'The Naked Time.' These resulted in the scene-specific sounds for Pike's 'window bump,' the Talosian doors and (for 'The Naked Time') the Psi 2000 infection, as well as a few 'roads not traveled' (tracks 55-72).

"While many recorded effects were generic (piano crashes, vibe and harp glisses--none of them included here), a few will be instantly recognizable as the primary elements of the show's iconic sound effects: the transporter (both pilot and series versions) and medical equipment. These were created by Jack Cookerly's 'magic box' (a modified Hammond organ), which would later generate a number of other sound effects for the series.

"Interestingly, the series transporter effects were originally recorded (and used) for the Talosian planet in 'The Cage.' An outtake (track 70) captures its moment of creation: 'That crazy pitch thing that you've got,' says a voice (probably Courage), 'pull it down a half-tone and up again and make it sound more like the flutes did before.'"

 

[billsantos]

Yes, I read the La La Land notes during my search. Well, the correlation between Cookerly's "modified Hammond organ" and Grinstaff's naming of the same probably means that it's the same instrument used for both the high and low alien planet surface sounds, but the low tone versions never made it into any release for some unknown reason.

These effects are difficult to recreate with today's digital based processors, mainly for two reasons: 1) they were analog (transistor/ tube based instead of digital processor based) and 2) I believe they were recorded in open air via microphone captures. #2 is very relevant because of the cancellation that occurs-- if you try to do this in a closed loop digital system, the cancellation can be so great that the result is far too harsh/ choppy to use. Being in open air made a big difference here in overall tonal qualities and properties.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I always did wonder what those weird sounds on Star Trek planets were supposed to be. On Talos IV, at least it was suggested that the sound emanated from those weird plants sticking out of the rocks. Not that it matters, but I don't remember hearing them after the survivors encampment was discovered, though.

Here on Earth, you go outside, and minus cars, planes and such, there's pretty much wind...birds, and that's about it. I never hear any spooky chimes or anything like that hears on these other planets.

That's probably just as well, too. After listening to the sound clip posted above, I was thinking I'd probably go batty if I had to hear that outside all day, every day!

 

[GSchnitzer]

Yes, I read the La La Land notes during my search. Well, the correlation between Cookerly's "modified Hammond organ" and Grinstaff's naming of the same probably means that it's the same instrument used for both the high and low alien planet surface sounds, but the low tone versions never made it into any release for some unknown reason.

These effects are difficult to recreate with today's digital based processors, mainly for two reasons: 1) they were analog (transistor/ tube based instead of digital processor based) and 2) I believe they were recorded in open air via microphone captures. #2 is very relevant because of the cancellation that occurs-- if you try to do this in a closed loop digital system, the cancellation can be so great that the result is far too harsh/ choppy to use. Being in open air made a big difference here in overall tonal qualities and properties.

La- La -Land had some "unused" transporter sounds. (Perhaps they actually were used and were mislabeled.) Have you auditioned those?

 

[GSchnitzer]

I always did wonder what those weird sounds on Star Trek planets were supposed to be. On Talos IV, at least it was suggested that the sound emanated from those weird plants sticking out of the rocks. Not that it matters, but I don't remember hearing them after the survivors encampment was discovered, though.

Here on Earth, you go outside, and minus cars, planes and such, there's pretty much wind...birds, and that's about it. I never hear any spooky chimes or anything like that hears on these other planets.

That's probably just as well, too. After listening to the sound clip posted above, I was thinking I'd probably go batty if I had to hear that outside all day, every day!

The sound kicks in again when they try to destroy the rocky knoll with their hand lasers when Pike is taken.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Is this it?

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=07056383734260895725

The TV version sounds a little slowed down. Or maybe this is sped up, but it's pretty close.

 

[billsantos]

Is this it?

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=07056383734260895725

The TV version sounds a little slowed down. Or maybe this is sped up, but it's pretty close.

No, that isn't it. The one I posted above is but is of poor fidelity. Originals are only found on the VHS releases. By the time you get to the digital releases, they have remixed and changed the original sounds. The best, highest fidelity release of this effect can be found on the VHS "The Paradise Syndrome". Even in that episode, they shortened the original 36 second loop, but the fidelity is the best out of all of the episodes. The problem pulling these off of the tapes is that they are almost mixed at the noise level, so hard to pull out without a fidelity drop.
a

 

[Ssosmcin]

I hear ya, but I played them back to back and my sample really sounds like the same piece, but pitched way down. The same "gonna be the transporter" sound they used on Talos IV. I don't have anything to alter the pitch on my computer to confirm it, but that's how it sounds to my untrained ear. Of course, being untrained, I would be way wrong. I can't find anything else in my files that comes as close and what I have is fairly extensive. Which doesn't make it all inclusive, of course.

If by your ear you do find it, let me know. I'd love to add it...

 

[billsantos]

Yours is the same pitch, or nearly so, except a fair amount of reverberation and echo were added at some point perhaps on the DVD/ Blu Ray releases.

I think the only chance of obtaining the original that isn't interfered with dialogue, music, or other sound effects is finding one of the original 35mm tapes. Those had three separate mono audio tracks- DME- dialog, music, effects. Chances are that any sound effect wanted would be on its own E or effects track. In fact, I think Paramount utilized some of this to advantage when the Blu Rays offered multi channel sound as you can often hear music on a separate track from the dialogue, they just weren't as good about the sound effect separation. Also, I can't recall whether or not the La La music releases were pulled directly from the 35mm masters, but I suspect they were.

Anyway, I gave up on the aforementioned years ago due to the rarity of ever coming across someone having just the right 35mm master or copy, but I regained some new hope when the unaired version of "Where No Man..." came out with the Blu Ray releases. So you never know and as time passes and technology improves, additional effects, etc might appear as releases. I, for one, never expected all of the original music to be released and I was pleasantly surprised when it did.

Now this isn't to say that I don't have anything other than what I posted. In fact, I do have a much higher fidelity version, but even it doesn't match Paradise Syndrome's synchronized version. So mine will do nicely if the original can never be found/ released.

 

[Indysolo]

Also, I can't recall whether or not the La La music releases were pulled directly from the 35mm masters, but I suspect they were.

We used the original 1/4" music sessions. The only stems we pulled were for Charlie X and Plato's Stepchildren, as both featured vocals we couldn't find elsewhere.

Neil