Origin of the Borg

[gantoris]

In Dark Frontier the queen says they all come from lesser species, and that she too was a member of species number xxx. So was the queen assimilated or did the Borg evolve from one normal species? If it's the latter, shouldn't the queen's species' designation be 1 or 001 or something like that.

It doesn't make sense. If the queen is basically just another drone, why would they be interested in conquest and assimilation of other species?

 

[Spot261]

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for here, but specifics with regard to the Borg's origins are pretty sparse and frankly a lot of the canon borders on being outright contradictory.

Speculation though would be that either one species or a coalition of such at some point found technological augmentation went awry and led to the quasi species we know now.

It's not clear to what extent the native species of any given drone really matters anyway given that we know the Queen has survived at least one physical "death", returning in a fresh body. For that reason I prefer to see her as an avatar of the collective rather than a controlling entity. She does not lead in my world, she is.

However pretty much any interpretation of her the viewer might put forward will tend to fall apart when individual episodes are examined in depth. She describes herself as "bringing order to chaos" which suggests she in some way acts in a regulatory fashion, driving strategy decisions where there would otherwise be dumb instinct. On a few occasions we actually see her give verbal orders to drones in the fashion of a commanding officer, completely at odds with other instances where she either mentally controls the collective or even treats it as an extension of her physical form.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Queen said she was a member of Species 125. Assuming the Borg have an 'origin' species, that probably wasn't it - the original race would surely be something like Species 000 or 001.

I always thought that any drone could be turned into a Queen (or King) if the need arose. The Borg probably had a special protocol for just that purpose.

 

[Kor]

In one of the Star Trek: TOS Manga books, Kirk kicked the butt of some lady whose species was experimenting with cybernetic augmentation and sent her way back in time. She became the Borg queen.

Kor

 

[gantoris]

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for here, but specifics with regard to the Borg's origins are pretty sparse and frankly a lot of the canon borders on being outright contradictory.

Yes they are. And I know, it's a TV show, entertainment and all. I just wish they had explained the Borg's backstory a bit better.

Speculation though would be that either one species or a coalition of such at some point found technological augmentation went awry and led to the quasi species we know now.

I guess that is the logical conclusion.

It's not clear to what extent the native species of any given drone really matters anyway given that we know the Queen has survived at least one physical "death", returning in a fresh body. For that reason I prefer to see her as an avatar of the collective rather than a controlling entity. She does not lead in my world, she is.

I know the Borg strive for perfection. By who's standards? What purpose do they serve i the queen is just a ambassador of sort?

However pretty much any interpretation of her the viewer might put forward will tend to fall apart when individual episodes are examined in depth. She describes herself as "bringing order to chaos" which suggests she in some way acts in a regulatory fashion, driving strategy decisions where there would otherwise be dumb instinct. On a few occasions we actually see her give verbal orders to drones in the fashion of a commanding officer, completely at odds with other instances where she either mentally controls the collective or even treats it as an extension of her physical form.

That would suggest she's in charge, or at least serving someone else who's in charge. Bringing order to chaos... If they are just walking computers, that doesn't seem plausible. Computers don't care.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Perhaps the queen is a program that can be downloaded into a new drone (of whatever species) when a new queen is needed.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Remember the old idea that V'Ger was involved in the Borg origin?

 

[Refuge]

A Queen of any hive comes from the existing hive. She would not have been assimilated as a ready made Queen. It's hard to believe the Borg originated from one species either .. you can't have a collective of one. There must have been at least two.

"If the queen is basically just another drone, why would they be interested in conquest and assimilation of other species?

Why not? Until the Borg evolved and developed their prime directive to grow, assimilate, and strive for perfection, they were small. Assimilation is their procreation. Tracy in another thread reminded me of 'The Omega Directive'. Makes you wonder if the Borgs assimilation of other species is an achievable way of attaining perfection. Quantity over quality. If they were able to assimilate Omega would that not have completed their quest? Once perfection is achieved would the Borg still be the Borg or would they be Omega? Or was Omega not perfection but just power.

 

[Sophie74656]

Perhaps the queen is a program that can be downloaded into a new drone (of whatever species) when a new queen is needed.

That was what I thought

 

[Sophie74656]

Remember the old idea that V'Ger was involved in the Borg origin?

It doesn't really work since the Borg are much older than that

 

[Sophie74656]

My own idea of the borg origin is basically that there was a person who was trying to improve him or herself and started enhancing their body with artificial components.

 

[at Quark's]

It doesn't really work since the Borg are much older than that

Well, we could always throw in the idea that the black hole the V'ger probe fell in displaced it not only in location, but in time as well.

I have however read other counterarguments that state that the V'ger level of technology seems distinctly higher than that of the Borg, seeing it is able to create the Ilia probe effortlessly after just a single scan, a probe that, according to Memory Alpha

replicated the body of Ilia down to the smallest detail, including pheromones and sweat glands, with molecule-sized microprocessors and billions of connected mechanisms. Even the memory patterns in Ilia's brain were replicated, allowing the crew of the Enterprise to attempt to revive the memories and emotions of the navigator through stimulus.

Then again that could also be a simple consequence of part of its mission ('learn all that is learnable').

 

[Dukhat]

In "Q-Who?" (the first Borg episode), it was heavily implied that the Borg were just one humanoid race, which started out as fully flesh-and-blood, and then the implants were added over time (hence the scene with the baby). It was even implied that Hugh and the other rogue Borg were also the original Borg "race."

It wasn't until FC that it was decided that the Borg were in fact assimilated from multiple humanoid alien races (which probably grew from the idea of Locutus). And it was also where the idea of a Borg Queen came from. And yes, I would have assumed that the Queens were the original Borg race in this new retcon. But they weren't.

So if the Borg are nothing more than other races being assimilated, how did the Borg collective start? My issue is that the original intent for the Borg (at least what we saw in "Q-Who?") gives them the right to do whatever they want as far as choosing to be cybernetic, because all they are affecting are themselves. The problem then becomes that they were made to look like they were intentionally destroying other races simply because they were not like themselves. The later idea of actually assimilating other races into the collective instead of just destroying them gives more of a method to their madness, but then creates the paradox that there was never an actual Borg race to begin with (unless we are told otherwise in the future. Yes, I know about the novels' take on this, but quite frankly, while I like reading Trek novels, I found their take to be needlessly convoluted.)

 

[Mizrach]

Destiny Trilogy. Not canon but a fantastic read.

 

[gantoris]

Why not? Until the Borg evolved and developed their prime directive to grow, assimilate, and strive for perfection, they were small. Assimilation is their procreation.

So are they incapable of reproducing other than by assimilation? That's cancer logic.

 

[Sophie74656]

So are they incapable of reproducing other than by assimilation? That's cancer logic.

It's been said several times that they have no actual reproduction, only assimilation

 

[Finn]

I'm a fan of the idea that the Borg arose from some kind of coalition, perhaps more than one, in the distant past. There must have been some of crisis(es) and/or disaster that led them on a path toward the Borg we know.

 

[Refuge]

If you were to use Seven of Nine as an example of a drone, and one who had undergone several surgeries and procedures to re-humanize her, she still possessed the Borg emotional fail safe as the Doctor referred to it as. Her existing Borg implants were designed to prevent regular emotion that would lead to regular procreation. Even when Seven, the ensign, and the Doctor's mobile emitter created One it was a form of assimilation. Nanoprobes, biology, and 29th Century technology.

That kind of imagination is where the Star Trek future lies.. in my opinion.

 

[Finn]

 

[Prax]

The Doctor could have removed that...whatever it was. Seven chose not to.