Officer to enlisted ratio?

[Cobalt Frost]

I ask here because it will relate to my stories, but assuming that Trek would follow current military standards in this regard, does anyone know what the ratio of officers to enlisted would be on an average navy ship? I suppose it would vary depending on the class, but a ballpark figure would be useful. Or, has a bit of Trek fic that I've missed established something like this?

 

[Imaus]

Here are some things I've found off the cuff:

"The density of officers remains pretty nearly constant: one officer per each six enlisted personnel. - Chicago Tribune"

"See Figure 1. The Service Secretaries manage the accession, promotion, and assignments of enlisted members under broad statutory authorities. Enlisted personnel make up about 82% of the armed forces, with officers making up the remaining 18%"

" The officer to enlisted ratio is 1-to-8.4 for the Marines but 1-to-4, 1-to-5, and 1-to-5.3 for the Air Force, Army and Navy, respectively."

 

[Cobalt Frost]

Thanks man! So one officer to five or six enlisted would be a good rule of thumb. Right on, good to know.

 

[valkyrie013]

Depends on the location/shop/ship.
Was in a support roll, had about 60 enlisted working in 5 departments. Had 2 officers in charge of the departments, and a major in charge of the hanger, then some more officers in the headquarters.
So it was 10 officers or so to 70 enlisted or so.

So at low levels not many officers, but as you get more up the chain, more officers.

So in a today example, Engineering, you'd have a chief engineer, officer, then an officer in charge of each shift, maybe 2. And the rest of the engineer crew would be enlisted .

 

[F. King Daniel]

Franz Joseph Schaubelt had the detailed breakdown in his old Star Trek Blueprints. 43 officer and 387 crew members for the 430-crew classic Enterprise.

 

[BK613]

Depends on the location/shop/ship

Exactly this. The breakdown of one of my assignments was:
Engineering Department commanded by the Engineering Officer (Lt. Cmdr)
(Departments divided into Divisions. The divisions were A, B, E, M, and R, each commanded by one officer (not counting warrants))

E-Division commanded by the Electrical Officer (Ensign or LTjg) with a CPO as senior division enlisted

Electrician's Mates ( with EM1 as lead over all EM shops)

Electric Shop (about 10 personnel with EM2 as lead)
Electric Tool Shop (2, EM2 and EM3)​

Internal Communications Electricians (with IC1 as lead over all IC shops)

Phone Shop (about 8, with IC2 as lead)
Gyro room (about 4, all IC3s or IC2s )​

So that was one division officer over about 26. For comparison, the S-7 division (data processing) of the Supply Department had an ensign over just 8 guys.

Hope this is helpful...

 

[BK613]

And FWIW, the Wikipedia entry usually gives an officer/enlisted breakdown of the crew as part of the specifications. For example, the USS Arleigh Burke lists 33 officers, 38 CPOs and 210 enlisted as its complement. Perhaps you could also use that as a guide if there is a Navy ship analog to your vessel.

 

[Cobalt Frost]

Great info. Thanks all!

 

[Imaus]

I'm also darn interested in what departments and their registries are. On Cygnus they have a few.

 

[BajaTym]

This subject has always fascinated me, primarily due to the fact that Starfleet has never clearly/proprly delineated the difference between what it is to be an officer or crewmen (enlisted). Whats the real difference, beyond attending the Academy? I ask because we regularly saw, at least in the TOS-era movies, crewmen manning the same position as officers. For instance, the navigation station on the Enterprise (1701+/-A) has been manned by a cadet (TWOK: Lt Saavik), enlisted (TMP: CPO DiFalco; TSFS: random enlisted male), junior grade (TOS: ENS Chekov; TMP: Lt Ilia), and mid-grade officers (CDR Chekov). In the real military the differences between these ranks is pretty extreme. It seems that the only difference is that offers can rise to a command position (2nd officer, 1st officer, captain and above). Enlisted can be "Chiefs", where they seem to be department heads (maybe?).

I served 22 years in the US Air Force, during that time I was assigned to various organizations with distinct differences in enlisted to officer ratios and even on how their personnel were utilized. This was across the board and among all the service. For example, at the lowest echelon, the enlisted to officer ratio was at times 100:1 (100 enlisted:1 commander), then at the highest it as 20:3 (20 officers: 3 enlisted). The higher I went as an enlisted, the more they senior leaders relied on and trusted us (I guess). For years I sat next to a Lt Col that was doing the exact same job as me. Basically we all came to the "big table" to collaborate on strategic planning... sorry, Starfleet organizational structure was designed by people with little to zero military experience and doesn't make any sense.

Sorry, that probably sounded really negative, I don't mean to be. All the above to explain why I'd recommend making it as real as possible, break it down by department and/or function. First identify the actual Area of Responsibility (AORs) needed to run your ship; propulsion (warp, impulse, and thrusters), sub-system maintenance and sustainment (life support, transporters, shields, grey water, recycling), readiness (supply, shuttle craft maintenance, food preparation, towels, fitness, MWR, training, component repair), operations (personnel assignments, records management, communications, shuttlecraft plans/scheduling, NDI), security (internal security, combat arms, small arms, ordinance management), medical (hospital and dental), and a bunch of other stuff. Then assign 1 "Commander" and 1 Senior Enlisted Crewman/Leader (SEL) over each department/function. Then divide them down to the lowest member. Some departments may only have 5 people and others could have 100, all depending on the needs of your ship.

Sorry for the long rant, I'm tired and got excited about possibly helping. Best of luck and please forgive my spelling/grammar error, I'm too lazy to correct anything tonight.

Cheers! -- James

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

If you take the example of the U.S.S. da Vinci then things are very different:

• Officers = 23
• Chief Petty Officers = 2
• Crewmen = 20

That's based on the crew up until the Wildfire incident.

I'd assume some ships might be quite different, depending on their mission types or special assignments, hospital ships for one would most likely have a higher proportion of officers to non-coms due to the number of doctors and nurses onboard.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

If you take the example of the U.S.S. da Vinci then things are very different:

• Officers = 23
• Chief Petty Officers = 2
• Crewmen = 20

That's based on the crew up until the Wildfire incident.

That's not the worst that I've seen -- that would be the Archer-class which had nine officers, a Master Chief, a Senior Chief and three petty officers/crewmen -- but it still seems a little out of whack unless that total includes the SCE field team (which seems to have a fairly conventional two officers and a handful of enlisted, though I'd expect most of the "crewmen" to be at least E3 rated (Able Crewman/Crewman First Class) if not E4 to E6), and as with the Equinox, Grissom and the Rhode Island having a full Captain (though more so David Gold, Gomez is only about 37 so could be a Captain by role, but a Commander by rank*) seems overkill.

* In the RW, the substantive rank is typically worn by "Captains by role" in most services, however Starfleet may do things differently (In the RN, carrier COs wear an O6 uniform and title even if they hold O7 rank), indeed BoBW provides a possible model for this.

 

[Redshirt214]

Here's a related question:

If you had a minor ship, say 100 or less crew compliment and commanded by a Lt Commander, what would Department Heads be? Would they be Lts?

Also, how far do you think a Cadet could reasonably get in a year of promotions, assuming multiple promotions? Obviously that Kirk thing from the '09 movie was silly, but do you think someone could make Lt. Jg., assuming they finished up their Academy work while "at sea" and made Ensign, then got promoted again?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

If you had a minor ship, say 100 or less crew compliment and commanded by a Lt Commander, what would Department Heads be? Would they be Lts?

The XO would be probably be a Lieutenant.

Most RW settings suggest around half a dozen officers for a crew that size, however at least a couple of those would have to be non-Department Heads standing as Duty Officer of the Watch for the shifts that the CO and XO don't work.

IMO, at least a few of the Department Heads would be Chiefs rather than Lts as they'd be in charge of relatively small groups of people.

Also, how far do you think a Cadet could reasonably get in a year of promotions, assuming multiple promotions? Obviously that Kirk thing from the '09 movie was silly, but do you think someone could make Lt. Jg., assuming they finished up their Academy work while "at sea" and made Ensign, then got promoted again?

Nowhere.

Kelvin!Kirk only makes any kind of sense if you accept the info from on-screen graphics that he was both a Cadet and a Lieutenant (similar to Saavik), and even then that's still a stretch.

In the RW, the minimum for LT is about 3.5 years and even Riker took about 3. Starfleet does appear to promote to JG a little faster than the RW in certain cases (Riker and Nog both made JG in about a year, but obviously obviously Kim is the corollary to that).

 

[Sgt_G]

I have drafted full crew rosters for Trek ships. One has a crew of 100, 13 of which are officers.

Commander / Ship's Captain
Executive Officer / First Officer
Operations Officer
Intelligence Officer
Science Officer
Weapons Officer
Chief Engineer
Assistant Engineer
Tactical Officer (aka Security Officer)
Doctor / Ship’s Surgeon / Chief Medical Officer
Nurse or Physician’s Assistance
Chief Shuttle Pilot
Shuttle Pilot

On the enlisted side, these ships will have at least four, typically five and occasionally six Chief Petty Officers (E-7). One of these will pull double-duty as Chief of the Boat, and will usually be a Senior Chief (E-8).

 

[ChallengerHK]

FWIW, don't forget Warrant Officers/non-coms. Bry_Sinclair alludes to this with the Chief Petty Officers.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Officers may outrank enlisteds, but in practice they will oftten have a more equal working relationship. I was doing a project at Fort Hood a long time ago and there was a SFC who told me that every once in a while they'd get a new Lieutenant who didn't seem to understand that the senior enlisted were a source of information to help the LT make good decisions. As he told me, as long as it didn't put lives at risk or cost the Army money, they'd gladly let him fail.

 

[Redshirt214]

Interesting. Thinking about my specific instance, I actually think the 3 year timeframe might work better: I'm running an RP of the USS. Hood from Farpoint to Major Systems Upgrade, which would mean an beginning of 2364 and an end date of 2367. That I think should be enough for them to make Lt. Jg. ...

 

[BK613]

At the USS Constitution's museum page they have a nice chart showing the crew breakdown:
https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/discover-learn/history/ships-crew/ranks-and-rates/

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

At the USS Constitution's museum page they have a nice chart showing the crew breakdown:
https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/discover-learn/history/ships-crew/ranks-and-rates/

Interesting, though a tad anchronistic.

Also of debatable helpfulness for the particular instance as Old Ironsides has a crew of several hundred, so ranks and ratios would be very different than a modern vessel with a small crew.

IMO, the Avenger-class mine countermeasures ship with a crew of ~80 (8 Officers and 75 enlisted for the Dexttrous MCM-13 specifically) would be closer. The extra twenty if desired would be extra science and medical personnel.

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/mcm13-98/index.html

Ship's Officers are:

CO: Lieutenant Commander
XO: Lieutenant
ChEng: Lieutenant
Ops: LT-JG
SUPPO: LT-JG
1st LT: LT-JG
DC Asst/Asst ChEng: LT-JG
CICO (Tactical Officer?): Ensign
COMMO*: Senior Chief Petty Officer
Asst SUPPO*: Senior Chief Petty Officer
Engineering Chief: Chief Petty Officer
Deck/Security Chief: Chief Petty Officer
Medical Officer: Chief Petty Officer

* One of these likely holds "COB" or "Command Senior Chief" as a collateral role.

 

[BK613]

Interesting, though a tad anchronistic.

Also of debatable helpfulness for the particular instance as Old Ironsides has a crew of several hundred, so ranks and ratios would be very different than a modern vessel with a small crew.

This is a current thread discussing crew sizes so I thought the participants might find the chart interesting, having stumbled across it doing an unrelated search. And the OP never mentioned the size of the crew that was being fleshed out. What was asked about was crew ratios on a typical navy ship. For the US Navy, that would probably be a Burke or Tico, not a mine countermeasures ship, which I already pointed out several posts ago..

Also,it never hurts to have an historic perspective.