No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Contact

[GotNoRice]

From the Memory Alpha page for the DS9 episode "Rapture":
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Rapture_(episode)

Although some fans find it unusual that there is no acknowledgment of Star Trek: First Contact in this episode, such as a reference to the USS Defiant needing repair work, this was not an oversight on the part of the writers, but was in fact a conscious decision. Ira Steven Behr was not happy with how the Defiant had been used in the film ("I didn't see the point in bringing it on just to kick the crap out of"), and he didn't see any reason to draw attention to it in this episode.

Does this seem unusually bitter to anyone else? The defiant was designed to battle the Borg so it makes perfect sense to me that it would be right there on the front line during a Borg attack. This was also the closest we pretty much ever got to having any part of DS9 in a movie.

Seems extremely petty to me, like a little kid that got snubbed who takes his ball and goes home.

Then again, shit seems to flow both ways as they were never allowed to use the Sovereign class model in any DS9 battle scene, so maybe there was reason to be bitter?

 

[Anwar]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Behr disliked referencing any other Trek other than TOS whenever possible, so this doesn't surprise me.

 

[PsychoPere]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

The FC producers originally wanted to destroy the Defiant, I believe, so I don't blame him.

 

[Jono]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Probably residual anger of what he saw as plans to destroy the Defiant in one of the early scripts. Plus when you lend out your toys you don't want to get them returned in pieces. But, yeah it is pretty petty and also meaningless. The lack of mention of the Defiant needing repairs doesn't impact the actual episode in any way nor would a mention of it really enhance the episode.

 

[Nine of Seven]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Actually it was a fleet of Defiants, not just one. Still, if it were the Voyager Borg...THE Defiant w/Worf, Kira, or Quark could have defeated a Cube.

I buy your point, don't know of anyone who likes the way the TNG movies treated DS9's continuity, toys, et al. Insurrection sucked so bad, they should have teamed up w/someone from DS9 to make this better.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

It may not satisfy those who love interconnected continuity, but I really don't think it was absolutely necessary to mention the Defiant's participation at Sector 001 unless it was something that had a long-term consequence or seriously impacted DS9. Otherwise, it was an engagement that took place offscreen and any damage the ship suffered was repaired relatively quickly, perhaps even prior to her return to the station, IMO (the Defiant may have been repaired at the San Francisco Yards, Utopia Planitia, or even McKinley Station before going home).

 

[Anwar]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

The FC producers originally wanted to destroy the Defiant, I believe, so I don't blame him.

Ron Moore helped write FC and he never complained like that. So Behr is just being petty.

Even if they had decided to make Insurrection a Dominion War story about the TNG crew he probably would have just complained there as well over having to deal with the fallout of whatever they did.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

I think the tendency to avoid mixing two treks together resulted in tons of missed opportunities.

For example, in Yesterday's Enterprise, they considered doing a tie in with the original Enterprise crew, but abandoned the idea.

And a Dominion war story during the time Insurrection was suppose to air- it would have been great.

I see Behr's point, though I wished the scene with the Defiant was even longer actually.

 

[G2309]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Behr might have felt he was making better Trek than FC so why reference it.
Why we had Insurection rather than a Dominion war story is beyond me.

 

[Anwar]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Behr might have felt he was making better Trek than FC so why reference it.

Because Trek is not his and his alone?

 

[G2309]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Reference the good stuff. Not the things he didn't like. Seeing how much offscreen repairs going on might not have even thought anyone would care.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Why we had Insurection rather than a Dominion war story is beyond me.

Because we had a multiple season war plot line on DS9 and there was no reason to have a Dominion war movie too.

There was a passing reference to the Dominion in the beginning of Insurrection, good enough.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

DS9 tended to handle crossovers in decent, sometimes clever ways, ie Mirror Tuvok and Dr. Zimmerman/EMH. My guess is, if there's no real reason to do it that's relevant to the story, then just don't. Shoehorning it in seems like shallow fanservice, rather than good (re: the first two seasons of Enterprise are guilty of this, but the fourth season pulls it off brilliantly).

 

[Nightdiamond]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

I've read of crossover ideas that were panned and usually the reason was they don't want to mix the series together or take away another series' steam.

But going out of the way to avoid mentioning events from other Trek series comes off odd, I think.

I find it strange that during the Dominion War, Data would be assigned to observe another species when other ships are fighting for their existence.

And yet they find a reason for Worf to rejoin the crew every time there is a movie, lol.

Or Voyager-the Dominion war happens during that time, and it is revealed to them, but afterwards no mention of the impact whatsoever-the crew is not even curious, it seems.

I just don't see any evidence that mixing Treks, or mentioning events from one Trek to another would damage anything.

 

[Anwar]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Like I said, it's because Behr was being a little kid and wouldn't let anyone touch DS9 or do anything like crossovers or references.

 

[Thestral]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

You've got a real bug up your butt for Behr.

 

[Mr Silver]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Conversation probably went a little bit like this...

Worf: Captain Sisko, I must take the Defiant out to join the battle against the Borg ship
Sisko: Thats fine, I'll just stay here while you do that, bring her home in one piece
Worf: Aye sir


Post FC...

Sisko: Worf! What happened to the Defiant!
Worf: The Borg sir, we were badly damaged and were rescued by the Enterprise
Sisko: Yes I know that, but why is it back as if nothing happened to it!
Worf: It is not something we discuss with outsiders!

 

[-Brett-]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

TNG always did it's own thing, DS9 did it's own thing, Voyager did it's own thing, and the three rarely if ever interacted in any significant way. I never gave this one a whole lot of thought since it seemed so typical of the way Star Trek always handled events in someone else's corner of the universe.

I used to wish that the spin-offs interacted more, but after seeing the jumbled mess of continuity that the novel-verse became, I can see some merit to the official approach.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Or Voyager-the Dominion war happens during that time, and it is revealed to them

Didn't B'lanna go semi-psycho after finding out that her friends in the Maquis were wiped out by the Jem'hadar?

And I wonder if Worf was sworen to secrecy concerning event between the time the Borg cube was destroyed by the fleet and the time the Enterprise return to the 24th century?

 

[G2309]

Re: No acknowledgment of defiant’s role against the borg in First Cont

Like I said, it's because Behr was being a little kid and wouldn't let anyone touch DS9 or do anything like crossovers or references.

When Voyager was the other Trek show I don't blame him.