Spoilers New reader to Star Trek: Vanguard (some spoilers, but be careful!)

[Charles Phipps]

Well, better late than never.

I've started reading STAR TREK: VANGUARD about twelve years too late but I'm really enjoying this work and it's moved up to become my second favorite Star Trek series after New Frontier. Sorry Department of Temporal Investigations and Rise of the Federation. I have to say David Mack has done an amazing job and it really does feel like its own series with a unique permanent cast.

I'm only three books into it, having just finished REAP THE WHIRLWIND but it was great.

I think it's perhaps a bit blasphemous to say it but I love the dark and unsentimental take on Starfleet here as well as the fact the protagonists are such a flawed collection of jerks. As the Enterprise is the best and brightest of Starfleet, some place had to collect its refuse. The group is more ruthless, more feet of clay, and more secretive--and that makes it more interesting.

Mind you, I kind of think the colonists setting up in the Taurus Reach are less sympathetic than they might have been intended. Starfleet bungled its handling of settlement in the region, for sure, but the simple fact that they felt entitled to classified information as well as ignored the HEAVY HEAVY HINTS that this was incredibly dangerous kind of made me lose empathy for them.

"Settling here is intensely dangerous."
"What's wrong?"
"It's classified."
"How dangerous?"
"You should run screaming."
"Okay."

I've went through some of the previous threads on the subject and it's kind of sad that T'Prynn was such a controversial character at the beginning. Star Trek, of all franchises, should have been ahead of the curve on its fandom. Mind you, I really do like T'Prynn and think as Star Trek's first lesbian character (probably not true--but one of the first), that she was a very impressive one.

Spoiler

I am saddened about how her relationship ended but that she chose duty over love made her more interesting to me.

I'm probably going to loot this for my next STAR TREK ADVENTURES game.

Review:

http://booknest.eu/reviews/charles/1669-startrekvanguardharbinger

 

[David Mack]

I'm glad you find the character of T'Prynn so compelling. Though I did not create the character — she had been previously established in one of the Lost Era novels — I got to do the most work developing her backstory and major arcs in Vanguard. So in a sense, she feels to me like one of my creations, and she is my favorite of all of the characters I've ever developed, because she is so damaged, so complex, and so intent on making things right after the events of Reap the Whirlwind.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I'm glad you find the character of T'Prynn so compelling. Though I did not create the character — she had been previously established in one of the Lost Era novels — I got to do the most work developing her backstory and major arcs in Vanguard. So in a sense, she feels to me like one of my creations, and she is my favorite of all of the characters I've ever developed, because she is so damaged, so complex, and so intent on making things right after the events of Reap the Whirlwind.

I feel sad she's doomed to die in such an ignominious manner but yes, you did a great job with her.

It's the little details that make her so interesting. Things like her love of piano and jazz. I'm sad that her relationship with Anna only lasted until the third book but, really, give you a lot of credit for ending it in a manner that is unsentimental and unromantic. T'Prynn did care but was hard enough to end it in a manner consistent with a spy working an asset. I also love that, essentially, her career starts to unravel because of a minor issue of a doctor concerned about her headaches. That's what trips you up in the real world.

As mentioned, I'm mostly intrigued by Vanguard because it manages to do a careful balance between being dark, adult, and cynical(ish) while also being believably set in the Star Trek universe. It may change in future books but Starfleet really screwed the pooch here. Yet, it did it entirely for (in my opinion) valid reasons.

You don't normally expect an archaeology expedition to awaken Cthulhu. Well, in this century of the ST timeline at least.

 

[Kilana2]

It also had cool baddies. Different from the classic vanilla bad guys we know from the screen.

 

[Relayer1]

Well, better late than never.

I've started reading STAR TREK: VANGUARD about twelve years too late

I wish I hadn't read it.

No, so I'd got it to read afresh. What did you think I meant ?

 

[Charles Phipps]

I love the depiction of the Tholians in the books as they're basically the Magi from the Mummy or those guys guarding the Grail in Indiana Jones. They know you don't want to disturb the tombs of the Shedai even if they don't quite remember how. However, Starfleet awakens them and things go from bad to worse. They've done nothing wrong but can't really communicate what's dangerous without encouraging humanity and the Klingons to be MORE curious.

The Shedai are a nice "omnipotent baddie" race that reminded me a bit of Armus, even if it's only in the context of being a thing that inhabits other objects.

 

[Jinn]

Vanguard is so amazing. Thanks to all the authors for giving us a series with so much re-read value

 

[USS Firefly]

The Vanguard novels are GREAT!
I wish we had more Vanguard like saga's, like during the Lost Era timeline

 

[Charles Phipps]

I also like the fact the Tholians are implied to hate a democratic cosmopolitan culture like the Federation on an instinctive level because, well, the Shedai used to be like the Federation.

 

[David Mack]

Things like her love of piano and jazz.

That came about because I was listening to a lot of piano jazz at that time. In particular, Junior Mance and Gene Harris, as well as Paul Tillotson.

I'm sad that her relationship with Anna only lasted until the third book but, really, give you a lot of credit for ending it in a manner that is unsentimental and unromantic. T'Prynn did care but was hard enough to end it in a manner consistent with a spy working an asset.

My favorite part of how that story arc culminated was…

Spoiler: Reap the Whirlwind

...T'Prynn's moment of internal monologue, recalling her earlier conversations with Anna/Lurqal: She burns for me. It wasn't in the outline, it just came to me as I was writing the scene, and the moment I thought of it, it gutted me, along with the line "Love was lost, betrayed in the name of country."

I also love that, essentially, her career starts to unravel because of a minor issue of a doctor concerned about her headaches. That's what trips you up in the real world.

Yup. It's not the crime that gets you — it's the cover-up.

As mentioned, I'm mostly intrigued by Vanguard because it manages to do a careful balance between being dark, adult, and cynical(ish) while also being believably set in the Star Trek universe. It may change in future books but Starfleet really screwed the pooch here. Yet, it did it entirely for (in my opinion) valid reasons.

You don't normally expect an archaeology expedition to awaken Cthulhu. Well, in this century of the ST timeline at least.

I hope you'll find the subsequent volumes as engaging as the first three. I think the series benefitted from the fact that the overall story arc was plotted in the series bible, so we knew what ending we were working toward from the very beginning. We took a few detours along the way, but we could feel when it was time to wrap it up, and we ended the series exactly the way we'd wanted to all along. Which is why Vanguard remains, for me, the most creatively satisfying long-term project I've ever worked on.

 

[JD]

I have to say David Mack has done an amazing job and it really does feel like its own series with a unique permanent cast.

What about Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore? I thought there books were just as good as David Mack's. From what Voyages of Imagination says, it was mainly David's concept, but I still think Dayton and Kevin deserve some recognition since they wrote half the books.

 

[Charles Phipps]

What about Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore? I thought there books were just as good as David Mack's. From what Voyages of Imagination says, it was mainly David's concept, but I still think Dayton and Kevin deserve some recognition since they wrote half the books.

Oh yes, not an attempt to slight them.

Well I'm commenting specifically on the 1st and 3rd book. The 2nd book was good too but I admit I didn't feel the Romulan part of the plot as much.

 

[Nathan]

I agree, I think Vanguard is the best series out there. I'm pushing 50 years old and have been reading trek books since I was 16. I've read most of them (some Trek books were so $h!tty, I had to set my eye balls for warp speed to get through the books). And yeah, the first 3-4 Vanguard books are probably the best Trek Lit has to offer. The whole series is great tho'.

Once I finished with the series, I had such high expectations for Trek Lit, and these past few years I've been let down. Yeah, there's been a good book here or there, but nothing spectacular.
By the way, however, my all time favorite book is Serpents Among the Ruins (Lost Era), by David George -- and the Vanguard books are 2nd.

 

[Jakks]

@Charles Phipps When you're done with the actual novels, there is an eBook short story by Dayton Ward - Vanguard: In Tempest's Wake that sort of ties everything up. It's a good end-cap to the series.

https://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-Tem...st+wake&qid=1569890983&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spell

Vanguard was an amazing series all the way through. I absolutely loved it. I would love to see CBS All Access do a TV series based on Vanguard!

 

[David Mack]

Vanguard was an amazing series all the way through. I absolutely loved it. I would love to see CBS All Access do a TV series based on Vanguard!

So would I, but only if I got to run it so I could make sure it didn't get butchered.

 

[Charles Phipps]

So would I, but only if I got to run it so I could make sure it didn't get butchered.

I'd hope that Anna could remain part of the cast.

Mind you, clearly someone making the TV series is a fan of the EU since Control showed up in Discovery.

 

[Christopher]

Mind you, clearly someone making the TV series is a fan of the EU since Control showed up in Discovery.

That may have been a coincidence. After all, naming a controlling computer "Control" isn't exactly an unlikely choice. And the idea of intelligence agencies having computers watching and controlling everything has been floating around the culture for some years now (see Person of Interest).

 

[Charles Phipps]

That may have been a coincidence. After all, naming a controlling computer "Control" isn't exactly an unlikely choice. And the idea of intelligence agencies having computers watching and controlling everything has been floating around the culture for some years now (see Person of Interest).

You are correct and I wouldn't normally pay it much mind except for the fact Control is in charge of Section 31 and has a semi-similar origin even if it is used dramatically differently (and not playing the role of the Federation's version of Asimov's robot conspiracy).

Mind you, I wouldn't know how writers would feel about mining their novels (which they don't own) without being acknowledged. As a fan I'd love to see something like Andorian secession, the Typhon Pact, or other stuff show up but I'd prefer if the authors were accredited and given a bonus.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I've had these on my shelf for several years, took the first to the US with me twice intending to start reading, but years later still haven't started.

I will get there eventually.

 

[Christopher]

You are correct and I wouldn't normally pay it much mind except for the fact Control is in charge of Section 31 and has a semi-similar origin even if it is used dramatically differently (and not playing the role of the Federation's version of Asimov's robot conspiracy).

I'm pretty sure Dave has said that the show's Control wasn't based on his. As I said, that kind of computer-watching-everything meme is common in stories about intelligence agencies and government conspiracies, and Section 31 is in that tradition. Heck, there's even a character called Control in Person of Interest, though she's the government spook in charge of the computer surveillance program rather than the computer itself. And it was pretty clear to me when reading Section 31: Control that Dave was paying homage to Person of Interest. Maybe the DSC writers were fans of it too.