Naomi wildman's dead counterpart

[hux]

so did they give her a proper burial and bend samantha's mind (sending one Naomi off in a torpedo coffin whilst holding the other Naomi in her arms)

I always thought this could have been an interesting subject around the concept of morality and mortality (similar to Tuvix) certainly there was room to examine how this kind of freaky parrallel existence could affect someones mental state (Samantha inparticular) but neither she nor Kim had any kind of story that explored this (it was obviously easier for Kim since he didn't have a dead equivelant on board to freak him out) but surely Samantha found the idea of a dead version of her child on board very disturbing - presumably they got rid of it....right

i don't really have a question - just thought it was an intersting meta-episode - one that could have provided a great, profound discussion about the nature of what true existence is.....but they never bothered (and yet found time to give Torres an unrealistic depression from nowhere episode)

anyway

 

[StevenR]

Didn't they have a dead Harry Kim that same episode? And a dead O'Brian on DS9?

It's best to not think about it.

 

[tighr]

Didn't they have a dead Harry Kim that same episode? And a dead O'Brian on DS9?

The dead O'Brien was in an alternate universe at a future point in time though, so there was no body.

Kim's body would still be in the Prime Universe, just floating around in space somewhere.

 

[Guy Gardener]

OH!

Methinks Lyndsay flew in the wrong direction to find her true love, since the Kim with a pulse proved to be such a fricking bust.

Kes is in stasis in the hold too.

If she'd been preserved perfectly just moments after her death, maybe the Kobali could have brought her back too?

The Spacial schism causes duplication of matter, not the destruction of matter followed by the reconstruction of two equally "real" identical pieces of matter like in the case of Tom and Will Riker.

The computer records on Voyager would be identical.

That means that the crew with the wrong phase shift to their dna would know that they are fakes.

Kes with the wrong phase shift came over to the original Voyager who had a living baby Naomi on it.

Naomi is real.

Kim is real.

Seven, the Borg kids and the Equinox 5 are real.

Everyone else is a fake.

They have the wrong phase shift.

Kim has nothing bad to feel about, y'know except for the fact that he's the highest ranked starfleet officer on board but all the freaky pod people pretending they went to the academy are treating like he's a pledge during rushweek.

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

... which makes the mimetic Voyager from the Demon planet copies of copies. Maybe that was their problem.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Spacial schism causes duplication of matter

Exactly. Neither 'copy' of the ship was the "real" one. Or at least it would be impossible to tell which was which.

Side note: You look at this thread in the forums list and it just says "Naomi Wildman's dead..." I thought something horrible had happened to Scarlett!

 

[Guy Gardener]

If you're a c-list celebrity contemplating an adventurous escape form middleage, you're a bigger fool not to hold out till 27 to make the list.

You're not quite remembering all the clues.

JANEWAY 2: Quantum theorists at Kent State University ran an experiment in which a single particle of matter was duplicated using a divergence of subspace fields, a spatial scission.
CHAKOTAY 2: If the same forces were at work inside the plasma cloud, they may have duplicated every particle of matter on Voyager.
JANEWAY 2: Matter. But not antimatter.
KIM 2: Captain?
JANEWAY 2: In that Kent State experiment, they were able to duplicate normal matter, but when they tried to duplicate antimatter particles, the experiment failed.
TORRES 2: So the antimatter on the ships wasn't duplicated. Both engines have been trying to draw power from a single source of antimatter.

Duplication means making a copy from a master copy. This process because of the phasehsift does not create a perfect copy, but a flawed copy that is differentiable from the master copy.

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

Side note: You look at this thread in the forums list and it just says "Naomi Wildman's dead..." I thought something horrible had happened to Scarlett!

She suffered from anorexia for a while. My Mom watched Reba on WB for a while (show Scarlett was on) and it was painful to watch scenes with her in it, especially later seasons.


and...
Plotting the schism duplicates:
- copy Paris still had the physical experience of having been turned into a transwarp salamander, if there were any residual effects.
- Tuvix's death sentence might not be so poignant since he was just a fusion of dupliTuvok and dupliNeelix.
- The original Voyager was never commandeered, not by the Kazon, not by the Nyrians, not by the Dream Aliens. They all got, you might say, the decoy.
- yep, the 'Silverblood Voyager' were copies of this schism duplicate Voyager.
- copies were weak-willed enough to allow a space whale/space pitcher plant to control all their minds. Even Tuvok, though as we've seen, his Vulcan mind was unusually prone to takeover ("Repression", first to succumb to the Collective in "Unimatrix Zero, Part II", I think there were other occurrences too).
- Ensign Ballard was a copy-body, a dead ringer if you will. Not sure the Kobali noticed.
- Kes fans (Lynx?) unhappy with her depiction in "Fury" might be able to chalk it up to an evil twin (one we perhaps saw signs back to "Warlord").


Think about this broadly. It means no one born who left Earth on Voyager returned alive except Harry Kim. And he managed to get back multiple times- the altered timeline in "Non Sequitur", the original timeline in "Timeless" (with Chakotay, both also avoiding the mass brainwashing in "Workforce". Chakotay got to visit an Earth recreation in "In the Flesh" too). The Doctor's emitters are also duplicates, though there's a 3rd Doctor out there (the "Living Witness" one. Boy he's gonna have a hell of a time following Voyager's trail. Besides the huge leaps in Season 5, right after LW, there are two trails).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Beautiful analysis.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It'd be funny if, a week after "Endgame", another Voyager got home. Then another, then another...

You'd think, with all these easy duplication methods, manpower wouldn't have been a problem during the Dominion war.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

I don't think an episode that explores the issue would be particularly interesting.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Compared to another epic about Fairhaven?

 

[Sandoval]

Side note: You look at this thread in the forums list and it just says "Naomi Wildman's dead..." I thought something horrible had happened to Scarlett!

But that would be "Scarlett Pomers is dead" surely?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Actors aren't real people.

The spend their entire craft striping away at anything resembling a personality, until they can task up to be any creature requested when a new role is presented.

Fictional character vs. Non Person?

Both archetypes are especially insubstantial para-entities and ultimately interchangeable.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Side note: You look at this thread in the forums list and it just says "Naomi Wildman's dead..." I thought something horrible had happened to Scarlett!

But that would be "Scarlett Pomers is dead" surely?

Yeah but some fans have difficulty telling the difference between the character and the actor!

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Didn't they have a dead Harry Kim that same episode? And a dead O'Brian on DS9?

The dead O'Brien was in an alternate universe at a future point in time though, so there was no body.

Kim's body would still be in the Prime Universe, just floating around in space somewhere.

I thought the dead O'Brien was in the present and the replacement O'Brien was from the alternate future...

I HATE temporal mechanics...

 

[tighr]

Didn't they have a dead Harry Kim that same episode? And a dead O'Brian on DS9?

The dead O'Brien was in an alternate universe at a future point in time though, so there was no body.

Kim's body would still be in the Prime Universe, just floating around in space somewhere.

I thought the dead O'Brien was in the present and the replacement O'Brien was from the alternate future...

The dead O'Brien was FROM the Prime present, but he died in the alternate future. The "alternate future" O'Brien went back to the Prime present, where he proceeded to live out the rest of dead O'Brien's life and prevent the destruction of DS9. Since the Prime present becomes the Prime future, and the dead body is in an alternate future where DS9 is destroyed, the dead O'Brien's body is never recovered.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And Kieko still made babies with him?

If the station hadn't kept blowing up, that botanist would have engineered a threesome STAT.

Reduced into her own body as a 9 year old, she still tried to do her husband.

Mrs. O'Brien is really into some freaky shit.

 

[Timewalker]

It's been years since I last saw the Voyager episode about Naomi's birth, so I don't recall if Samantha knew her baby had died. If she didn't, I should think that Janeway would consider it rather cruel to burden her with that knowledge, and just quietly send DeadNaomi off in a baby-size torpedo casing, perhaps to be found later by the Kobali and raised by them (it's a wonder the Kobali didn't just start following Voyager around since it was a good source of "fresh" dead people).

If Samantha did know... I'd guess that Tuvok and Chakotay might have given her grief counseling.

There are a couple of fanfic stories where Naomi is perfectly aware that she's not the original baby, and that she and Harry are from another universe. For Naomi, it's just a curious fact about herself, but Harry gets into trouble with Starfleet because he doesn't quite match up with all their records of the Harry Kim who left 7 years previously.

 

[tighr]

Samantha knows Naomi dies due to complications from the fetal transport when Voyager lost power. The alternate Doctor was able to save Naomi using the exact same procedure because in his universe, sickbay didn't lose power.