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Meaning of "Beyond the Farthest Star"

Mres_was_framed!

Captain
Captain
Just watched "Beyond the Farthest Star," and this got me wondering what Kirk's log entry could mean by "Beyond the Farthest Star (of our galaxy). If it was the star farthest from Earth, then that would mean most of the galaxy had been mapped because they were there, but if it was no the farthest from Earth, then was it the farthest towards the edge without getting to the barrier? Also, since Samuel A. Peeples wrote both this and "Where No Man has Gone Before," would he be accounting for the Barrier?

I suppose this is really just a title, but a viable in-universe reason for this language would help it fit into the original timeline better and more cohesively.
 
It's the kind of expression you get when the show is written by English majors who don't care about astronomy. Maybe it can be rationalized as Kirk speaking in shorthand about a specific star mapping project we don't hear of in the show. Thus it would be "the farthest star" fully mapped-and-measured into some new data base so far. In other words, it means nothing.
 
It does sound a good title even if there isn't references to a far away star in the episode! I think it could be just a hint at the fate of a deserted alien vessel that's been drifting for many millennia and more...
JB
 
It sounds especially odd that Kirk would in the same breath say he's leaving the farthest star behind and proceeding with starcharting. Isn't he by default entering only lots and lots of white on that chart of his, then? The English major involved seems to lack interest in things other than astronomy, too...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Just watched "Beyond the Farthest Star," and this got me wondering what Kirk's log entry could mean by "Beyond the Farthest Star (of our galaxy). If it was the star farthest from Earth, then that would mean most of the galaxy had been mapped because they were there, but if it was no the farthest from Earth, then was it the farthest towards the edge without getting to the barrier? Also, since Samuel A. Peeples wrote both this and "Where No Man has Gone Before," would he be accounting for the Barrier?

The title seems to mean beyond the reaches of known space at that time--not "farthest" from earth. The title and story begins with Kirk's mission as recorded in his log:

"...on outward course beyond the fringe of our galaxy towards Questar M-17, a source of mysterious radio emissions. Mission--star charting."

being to push beyond a point never seen/experienced before, or if it had been by another vessel, investigate what happened. Regarding the barrier, one, he does not mention having to cross it to get to their destination, and two, TOS established that you can pass through it ("By Any Other Name"), so to answer your question, Peeples--through Kirk--probably has the Enterprise already passing the barrier's point to reach another perceived "fringe" or edge where that "star" existed.
 
"...on outward course beyond the fringe of our galaxy towards Questar M-17, a source of mysterious radio emissions. Mission--star charting."
After doing a little Star Trek research, I believe Questar M-17 is the remnant of a supernova, probably a neutron star. Neutron star fits most of the descriptions given:
  • "hypergravity" - yes :techman:;
  • emits radio waves - yes :techman:;
  • imploded matter - yes :techman:;
  • negative star mass - wtf? :wtf:;
  • dead star - yes :techman:;
  • dead sun - yes :techman:;
  • able to confine a magnetic organism - why not? :techman:.
 
I assumed that the Enterprise had already crossed the galactic barrier safely.

I assumed that whatever Kirk called the farthest star was behind them or at least closer to the main body of the galaxy than they were.

But of course it couldn't really be exactly the "farthest star" in the Milky Way Galaxy, not if that meant farthest from the galactic center. .There are certainly extremely thinly scattered stars and star clusters out to distances of perhaps a hundred thousand light years from the galactic disc. Questar M-17 itself should be a dead star, as Henoch says, so it should be an example of a star "beyond the farthest star" and thus even farther from the main body of the galaxy than the allegedly "farthest star".

Or maybe the Enterprise had crossed the galactic barrier and reached the outermost and farthest star and then turned back toward the galaxy to visit Questar M-17, which is closer to the main part of the Galaxy than the farthest star is, but is farther on in the voyage of the Enterprise and thus counts as being "Beyond the Farthest Star" according to the path of the Enterprise

As for star charting when the Enterprise is "Beyond the Farthest Star", people seem to assume that a starship can only chart stars that are ahead of it. But a starship can chart stars that are ahead and behind, right and left, above and below, in all directions. So possibly the Enterprise could be charting stars that are back in the main part of the galaxy from a different direction than they have been charted before.

And some people may assume that a starship can only chart stars that are near it, within a specific limited distance. Actually it is possible to chart the positions of stars which are thousands and millions of light years away. Astronomical instruments on Earth or in Earth's solar system have detected individual stars thousands and millions of light years from Earth. The farthest individual star detected, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MACS_J1149_Lensed_Star_1 was about 9.34 billion light years away when it emitted the light that was detected, and is now 14.4 billion light years away due to expansion of the universe.

There are two forms of star charting. One is recording the apparent directions to the various stars as seen from a specific location. Astronomers in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries - let alone astronomers in the 23rd and 24th centuries, could already do that with incredible and ever increasing precision.

The second form of star charting is determining the actual positions of stars in three dimensional space, and for that both the direction to the star and the distance to the star are needed.

So how can the distances to stars be measured? The direct way to measure the distances to stars is measure the difference in the directions to them from two or more different positions. For centuries astronomers have been measuring the directions to stars from positions two Astronomical Units apart. That is about 298 million kilometers 185 million miles apart. How could astronomers make measurements that far apart before the Space Age? By simply making their measurements six months apart, from positions two Astronomical Units apart on Earth's orbit around the Sun.

By so doing astronomers have measured the distances to thousands and millions of nearby stars. And that is using a baseline only 2 Astronomical units long. Taking measurements 2 thousand or 2 million Astronomical Units apart would make the measurements a thousand times or a million times more accurate.

Thee are 63.241.077 Astronomical Units in a light year. Alpha Centuari, the closest star to the Sun, is about 4.3 light years from Earth. Rigel is about 880 light years from Earth and Deneb is over 2,000 light years from Earth.

So when the Enterprise went "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in that episode and crossed the galactic Barrier it could have charted stars from a position hundreds or thousands of light years farther from Earth than had ever been done before, and so when its data would be combined with data from other places it would make the position calculations for thousands or millions of stars much more precise than they had ever been before.

And by charting the directions to many stars in the galaxy for a new angle when the Enterprise left the galaxy again and went "Beyond the Farthest Star" the new data would help to make the three dimensional positions of many stars even more precise.
 
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In addition, for added precision, it would be good to measure a star's velocity (movement) within the galaxy. We currently know that stars move at different rates by as much as a factor of two. A trajectory map can locate rouge stars from outside our galaxy; something interesting to study, etc.
 
I always laugh when the episode concludes with:

Captain's log, stardate 5221.8. Final entry. Resuming outward course beyond the farthest star of our galaxy. Mission, starcharting.

Hey Kirk, buddy, if you're out of our galaxy ya ain't gonna find any stars to chart. Nothing but an empty void for millions of light years.
 
I always laugh when the episode concludes with:

Captain's log, stardate 5221.8. Final entry. Resuming outward course beyond the farthest star of our galaxy. Mission, starcharting.

Hey Kirk, buddy, if you're out of our galaxy ya ain't gonna find any stars to chart. Nothing but an empty void for millions of light years.
He probably meant "farthest known star of our galaxy". Maybe they are looking for miscellaneous far out stars still weakly bound to the galaxy's gravitational influence. Sort of like an oort cloud of stars.
 
In addition, for added precision, it would be good to measure a star's velocity (movement) within the galaxy. We currently know that stars move at different rates by as much as a factor of two. A trajectory map can locate rouge stars from outside our galaxy; something interesting to study, etc.
One must also be aware that the stars we see from Earth are no longer in the positions we see them at given they have since moved only we will not know their exact current postions until their light reaches us. Of course, knowing their velocity we can project where they will be or where they are presently unless some as yet unknown vatiable exerts influence on any given star.
 
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I didn't think a thing about crossing the Galactic Barrier in this instance to be honest! I just assumed it was an area of space furthest out in Federation space! :biggrin:
JB
 
Of course, if Kirk can so easily travel beyond the fringe of our galaxy, he could equally easily be off to chart the stars of another galaxy. That is, one of the small ones brushing against the Milky Way.

The Federation always wanted to go out there. They sent Kirk to see whether it was safe in "Where No Man", and although his answer was "Nope!", he would have been their go-to man for further probing.

Only, he got turned back again, some time after "Beyond the Farthest Star".:(

Timo Saloniemi
 
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