Marvel Star Trek licensing issues

[Stevil2001]

It is an oft-repeated claim that Marvel's Star Trek ongoing (1980-82), because of its license, could only use concepts from Star Trek: The Motion Picture itself. Can anyone provide me with an authoritative source for this claim? Because I am about five issues from finishing the series and it is completely belied by the actual comics. I know people claim stuff was "snuck" through... but I would say more issues reference the original show (or the cartoon) than don't! If this was really true, 1) Marvel was completely brazen in violating the terms of its license, and 2) Paramount Licensing was completely asleep at the wheel in enforcing it.

 

[Stevil2001]

Hm, it looks like Mike Barr talks a bit about it in Back Issue! #5: http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=123_139_142&products_id=423

The preview of the issue delves into it a little. I guess I'll buy the whole thing.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It is an oft-repeated claim that Marvel's Star Trek ongoing (1980-82), because of its license, could only use concepts from Star Trek: The Motion Picture itself. Can anyone provide me with an authoritative source for this claim?

I am sure it is addressed in a lettercol somewhere. The editor explaining why sequels to episodes weren't permitted.

I recall an early print interview with Marv Wolfman, and I also heard him speak at a Creation Con in New York (January 1984).

There weren't too many examples. I remember Kyle popping up, but he may as well have been any crewman. The person vetting the scripts might not have noticed the name. Klingons and Andorians had to look like TMP Klingons and Andorians, but towards the end Chekov's Andorian girlfriend, Themon, was given cups on the ends of her antennae. McCoy's daughter, Joanna, never actually appeared in TOS, so no problem there. Rand's new husband was supposed to be a Medusan, but the writers had to change him to a similar style of non corporeal alien at script stage.

 

[Stevil2001]

I am sure it is addressed in a lettercol somewhere. The editor explaining why sequels to episodes weren't permitted.

I recall an early print interview with Marv Wolfman, and I also heard him speak at a Creation Con in New York (January 1984).

There weren't too many examples. I remember Kyle popping up, but he may as well have been any crewman. The person vetting the scripts might not have noticed the name. Klingons and Andorians had to look like TMP Klingons and Andorians, but towards the end Chekov's Andorian girlfriend, Themon, was given cups on the ends of her antennae. McCoy's daughter, Joanna, never actually appeared in TOS, so no problem there. Rand's new husband was supposed to be a Medusan, but the writers had to change him to a similar style of non corporeal alien at script stage.

I wish the IDW omnibus I'm reading reproduced the lettercols.

The one I just finished (#15) had an Antosian from "Whom Gods Destroy." A key plot point in the Joanna story is the disease from "The Pirates of Orion," choriocytosis. No Medusans in #12, but it does feature the galactic barrier from "Where No Man Has Gone Before," which transforms Rand into a psychic. #9 includes the classic Constitution design; #6 depends on Kirk's backstory from "Court Martial."

 

[Christopher]

Here's my 2011 list of all the TOS references that were snuck into the comic:

There's actually a remarkable number of TOS/TAS concepts and even characters that were used or alluded to in these 15 issues, despite the "ban" on their inclusion -- especially in the issues written by Martin Pasko. Here's the list (which might not be entirely comprehensive):

• Issue #4 & 6: Admiral Fitzpatrick (from "The Trouble With Tribbles")
• #5: Klingon mind-sifter
• #6: Ensign Kirk's service on the Republic (though the story contradicts what "Obsession" established about the Farragut being Kirk's first deep-space assignment); pilot-era uniforms
• #8: Mr. Kyle
• #8 & 13: Klingon stasis weapon (from "More Tribbles, More Troubles") -- only referenced in #8 but actually used in #13
• #8, 10, 17: the Prime Directive
• #9: A TOS-style USS Endeavor; pilot-era uniforms; "transtater" [sic] as basis of Starfleet tech
• #11: Mr. DeSalle; Berthold rays and a reference to Omicron Ceti; mentions of Carolyn Palamas and Mira Romaine
• #12: Galactic barrier and references to the Valiant and Enterprise encountering it; discussion of Kirk/Rand romantic tension; a Class J cargo ship; "Jeffries tube" [sic]; Elba II referenced
• #13: Joanna McCoy, and a reference to her time as a nurse on Cerberus ("The Survivor"); the Organian Peace Treaty; pergium; "pon far" [sic] and its 7-year cycle; engines in "red zone proximity" with four hours to blow ("The Savage Curtain"); choriocytosis and strobolin ("The Pirates of Orion")
• #14: "Class M" planet; Hodgkins' Law of Parallel Planetary Development
• #14, 15: cordrazine
• #14, 16: neutronium
• #15: cloaking device; Antosians and their metamorphic abilities ("Whom Gods Destroy"); Argan sur-snake ("The Ambergris Element"); the Vulcan inner eyelid ("Operation: Annihilate"); alternative terms for mind-meld such as "mind-touch" and "mind-fusion"
• #16: Matter transmuters reminiscent of those from "Catspaw"
• #17: tritanium

So that's three canonical non-TMP characters who slipped past the radar and actually appeared in the comic: Admiral Fitzpatrick, Mr. Kyle, and Mr. DeSalle. Four if you count Joanna McCoy, whose existence was established onscreen in TAS: "The Survivor."

Now, it could be that these items snuck through because they were minor enough continuity details that Paramount's licensing people missed them. But perhaps it's significant that it's only general concepts and supporting characters that got used, not specific episode plots or central guest characters. Compare it to DC's first TOS comic, which had an unrestricted license and did many plots that were direct sequels to TOS episodes or brought back central guest characters:

^Heck, most of DC's volume 1 consisted of stories that were followups to TOS or TAS episodes in some way or another. I felt it was kind of an overcompensation for Marvel not being allowed to reference TOS at all (yet managing to sneak nods into almost every issue of their run). Let's see:

#1-4: Sequel to "Errand of Mercy" and "Savage Curtain," brings back Koloth & Kor (with ridges).
6: Brings back Ambassador Fox.
7-8: Revisits pon farr and the galactic energy barrier as a source of psi powers.
9-16: Mirror Universe Saga.
22-23: "Wolf in the Fold" sequel.
27: Mostly new, but finally answers the question from "The Corbomite Maneuver" of what Kirk would do with the extra 6 percent crew efficiency. ("I'm gonna take it, and I'm gonna hold them to it.")
31-32: Brings back Koloth again (even though he was killed in #2).
33: Sequel to "Tomorrow is Yesterday," also featuring the Guardian of Forever.
37: Reintroduces Arex & M'Ress to the crew.
39-40: Harry Mudd story.
41: Features TAS-style Orion pirates.
42: Inexplicably refers to space gremlins as "corbomites."
43-45: "The Apple" sequel.
46: Brings back Tongo Rad from "The Way to Eden."
54-55: Brings back Finnegan and a character from "Whom Gods Destroy."
Annual 1: Features Pike, Boyce, and Number One.
Annual 2: "Menagerie" sequel, also featuring Koloth (non-ridged this time).
Annual 3: Flashbacks to Scotty's past refer to several episodes.

It's not every case, but most of the DC stories brought back major guest characters or directly followed up on story threads from TOS episodes, which is something none of the earlier Marvel issues did.

So maybe the restriction on Marvel was that they couldn't use storylines from TOS, rather than a blanket ban on concepts from TOS. What they did use was generally just worldbuilding details or minor characters. So they could mention cordrazine but not Edith Keeler, and could use a cloaking device but not bring back the Romulan Commander. Although that doesn't fit with Mike Barr's comments in that article linked to above (where he says, for instance, that they weren't sure they could have Spock perform a mind meld until they remembered it had been done in TMP).

I think the "sneaking" explanation is pretty likely, though. The comics never came out and said "Look out, it's the Klingon stasis weapon from 'More Tribbles, More Troubles'!" They just included these characters and elements without attributing them. And back then, before Memory Alpha, it was harder to keep track of every last bit of episode trivia from TOS. So the approval people might've skimmed over "Admiral Fitzpatrick" or "Berthold rays" without recognizing it as a reference.

 

[Khan 2.0]

sneaky lol no net then for easy access to check stuff out.. wonder what else they could've gotten away with from TOS had the comics continued..? (issue #19: starfleets new super soldier 'John Erikksen' has gone rogue ..Enterprise sent to hunt him down and he reveals himself to be the feared warlord 'Singh' whod escaped his exile on 'Alpha V')

 

[Christopher]

I think it's good that Marvel came up with their own stories and just used continuity elements as worldbuilding material. While DC Vol. 1 was one of the strongest Trek comics runs overall, I do feel it was far too dependent on TOS sequel plots (a failing it shares with Discovery). The occasional continuity follow-up is okay, but it's better to tell new stories.

 

[Stevil2001]

Here's my 2011 list of all the TOS references that were snuck into the comic:



Now, it could be that these items snuck through because they were minor enough continuity details that Paramount's licensing people missed them. But perhaps it's significant that it's only general concepts and supporting characters that got used, not specific episode plots or central guest characters. Compare it to DC's first TOS comic, which had an unrestricted license and did many plots that were direct sequels to TOS episodes or brought back central guest characters:


It's not every case, but most of the DC stories brought back major guest characters or directly followed up on story threads from TOS episodes, which is something none of the earlier Marvel issues did.

So maybe the restriction on Marvel was that they couldn't use storylines from TOS, rather than a blanket ban on concepts from TOS. What they did use was generally just worldbuilding details or minor characters. So they could mention cordrazine but not Edith Keeler, and could use a cloaking device but not bring back the Romulan Commander. Although that doesn't fit with Mike Barr's comments in that article linked to above (where he says, for instance, that they weren't sure they could have Spock perform a mind meld until they remembered it had been done in TMP).

I think the "sneaking" explanation is pretty likely, though. The comics never came out and said "Look out, it's the Klingon stasis weapon from 'More Tribbles, More Troubles'!" They just included these characters and elements without attributing them. And back then, before Memory Alpha, it was harder to keep track of every last bit of episode trivia from TOS. So the approval people might've skimmed over "Admiral Fitzpatrick" or "Berthold rays" without recognizing it as a reference.

Thanks for the list, and for the link to the old thread! Many references I caught, but some I didn't (like Admiral Fitzpatrick).

Maybe things got a little looser after the mind-meld incident Mike Barr describes? I can see how DeSalle and Kyle would sneak through if you were not familiar with background characters, but some are major. Like, if you don't know that the second pilot was about a galactic barrier giving people psychic powers, maybe doing Star Trek tie-in approvals isn't the job for you. (And it's described as an old adventure, so it's not like a general concept like cordrazine.) But I guess hiring superfans for this kind of work was probably a lot less common in 1980 than it would have been by the Paula Block era.

I actually have been enjoying most of the issues, after the rocky start of #4-5. The series is better than its reputation suggests.

 

[Christopher]

I actually have been enjoying most of the issues, after the rocky start of #4-5. The series is better than its reputation suggests.

It's pretty mediocre overall, and some of its later issues approach Gold Key levels of kitsch. But it has some bright points. Mike Barr's murder mystery in #6 is a personal favorite. Martin Pasko's Joanna McCoy issue and the final issue by J.M. DeMatteis are both fairly good.

 

[BillJ]

It is an oft-repeated claim that Marvel's Star Trek ongoing (1980-82), because of its license, could only use concepts from Star Trek: The Motion Picture itself.

Maybe it was a bit overblown, and they simply weren't allowed to do direct followups to episodes?

 

[Stevil2001]

It's pretty mediocre overall, and some of its later issues approach Gold Key levels of kitsch. But it has some bright points. Mike Barr's murder mystery in #6 is a personal favorite. Martin Pasko's Joanna McCoy issue and the final issue by J.M. DeMatteis are both fairly good.

Yeah, the Egypt one was bad, and not fun bad; I also wasn't a fan of the one I read today (a really convoluted story about the Enterprise infiltrating a xenophobic society). I agree with the murder mystery and the Joanna one being good; I also enjoyed the galactic rim one, once I was able to swallow the crazy big decision Rand made between issues.

I like that they're so tied to TMP; it gives them a unique flavor that really the only other source for is your work. The only tie-ins to use DiFalco (which is surprising now that I think about, given how many other characters get used). Lots of ancient machine intelligences in the early issues, especially, so you can see the writers picking up the cues of TMP. Nice touches like the perscans and so on here and there.

 

[Christopher]

I like that they're so tied to TMP; it gives them a unique flavor that really the only other source for is your work.

I appreciate the acknowledgment, but I'd point out that the syndicated newspaper strip was also TMP-era for its first few years, until it jumped forward to post-TWOK.

 

[Therin of Andor]

No Medusans in #12...

No, but he was scripted as one. He had to become a Phaetonian. Captain Kadan was a bodiless sphere of light within a floating pyramid.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The only tie-ins to use DiFalco (which is surprising now that I think about, given how many other characters get used).

DiFalco also appears in:

• TOS novel: A Flag Full of Stars
• TOS - Untold Voyages comic: "Renewal" (no dialogue)
• TOS novel: Ex Machina
• TOS novel: Provenance of Shadows
• TOS - Mere Anarchy eBook: The Darkness Drops Again
• TOS comic strip: "Quarantine (comic strip)" (no dialogue)
• TOS comic strip: "The Nogura Regatta"
• TOS - Untold Voyages comic: "Silent Cries" (no dialogue)

 

[Stevil2001]

I appreciate the acknowledgment, but I'd point out that the syndicated newspaper strip was also TMP-era for its first few years, until it jumped forward to post-TWOK.

Ah, I haven't read those. Gotta pick up those IDW hardcover collections still.

No, but he was scripted as one. He had to become a Phaetonian. Captain Kadan was a bodiless sphere of light within a floating pyramid.

Ian, I know this because the post you are quoting literally quoted a post where you already said that!

DiFalco also appears in:

• TOS novel: A Flag Full of Stars
• TOS - Untold Voyages comic: "Renewal" (no dialogue)
• TOS novel: Ex Machina
• TOS novel: Provenance of Shadows
• TOS - Mere Anarchy eBook: The Darkness Drops Again
• TOS comic strip: "Quarantine (comic strip)" (no dialogue)
• TOS comic strip: "The Nogura Regatta"
• TOS - Untold Voyages comic: "Silent Cries" (no dialogue)

Yeah, but I think her role in this ranges from "present" to "there" in most of her stories. I remember Christopher giving her a crush on Admiral Kirk (as an in-joke), but that's it. But in these comics she gets some stuff to do, and a tiny dash of personality-- palling around with Sulu and Chekov on shore leave, impulsively shooting an alien on landing party duty.