Kelvin character arcs

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Okay, so how much character growth do we see in the Kelvin films?

Kirk: Genius reckless drifter and troublemaker to a leader his crew trusts implicitly. Cheats to win, but becomes self-sacrificial when necessary. Love life is complicated. Finds a family in his crew. Died for them. Fights for them still. Lives up to what Pike thinks he's capable of. Still reckless, but not with the lives of his friends, and when it's needed.

Spock: Outcast who doesn't fit in anywhere to trusted first officer and friend. His and Uhura's relationship kind of goes around in circles, though. Loses his mother and his home planet, so his influences to embrace his human side and maintain his Vulcan side both take a hit.

McCoy: Bitter grumbling divorcé who joined Starfleet, stays cynical and realistic, but compassionate. Flirts with Carol, so he's not jaded about love completely. He complains a lot, but he does what he needs to. Makes friends with Kirk because he trusts him, knows Kirk needs a keeper.

Scotty: Stuck on an ice planet with an annoying (to him) friend, but good enough that by ID, they resign together and still hang out, even when they don't have to. Trusts Kirk but sticks to his principles regarding the missiles.

Uhura: Is able to put aside her bad experiences with Kirk to trust him as a captain and care as a friend. On again, off again with Spock - a good friend to Gaila. A master of her craft. Sassy attitude, won't put up with others

Sulu: A cadet who rises to the occasion. Has family ties and a life outside of his work (where did he find the time?) Skilled with the sword, even though it's less useful than a phaser (I wish we'd seen something of his botany interest in the films)

Chekov: A green whizkid who manages to step up wherever he's needed, whether that's at the nav station, the transporter, or engineering. Unlucky in love, but still tries Russia tall-tale teller.

 

[fireproof78]

In my opinion, Kirk and Spock have the best arcs through these three films. I think other crewmembers have less arcs, but still remarkable. I'll type this out based upon what I think are smaller arcs to larger ones across the three films.

McCoy: he remains consistent, moving from Kirk's friend to and remaining there, while moving from agreeable towards Spock, becoming more argumentative, and eventually more of a confidant for Spock, and far more supportive.

Scotty: Largely provides a contrasting point of view to Kirk's, but grows towards more of a reliable advisor by the end. He largely does his fantastic magical technological wizardry as needed.

Sulu: Like Scotty, he is a talented pilot and pulls off some great piloting feats which are really enjoyable. He somehow finds time to have a family, and shows some leadership qualities that I really enjoy. He also is a great partner with Chekov.

Chekov: probably tied with Sulu, so swap them as you see fit. He moves from being young an inexperienced with great ideas, to Kirk's yes man, to far more of a reliable officer in his own right. I think he has some challenges that force him to grow.

Uhura: Takes on a different role as an adviser to both Kirk and Spock, but more than that, she provides a different perspective for Spock, showing the human side that he often denies, and he is able to draw out from him in unexpected ways. But, she has to grow in her respect for Kirk and willingness to trust him despite his glaring weaknesses at times.

Spock: Spock has one of my personal favorite arcs, but it is one rife with a little nuance. The bullying by the Vulcan children has an impact on his choices as he goes on to tell the Vulcan Science Academy were to stick it, and trying to still be Vulcan and honor his Dad's wishes, only to discover there is far more depth to what his dad truly wanted for him. I honestly wished Sarek had another appearance, but like to think that he helped lead New Vulcan in some ways. We also see a strong repeat of Spock's struggles with his intense Vulcan emotions with his rage at Kirk's death. His journey to making peace with his two halves is well done, especially as he knows his life from another timeline.

Kirk: I make no secret that Kirk's arc is what makes the Kelvin films for me. His struggle with a desire to rebel, yet unable to escape his father's shadow and a longing for something more. He's a genius level capable young man who rebels against rules for no other reason than because its there. He exemplifies raw talent that is undisciplined yet shows great potential, as well as the fact that he feels he can never be the hero his dad was.

Pike reminds him of what he can be, and inspires him to work towards achieving more than just the dead end boring life he has. He gets challenged to actually fulfil his potential, but has to find his way in a world of rules, compared to his reckless ways. And, even as he grows to a leader, a man he feels can inspire people, he still slips, fails, and loses trust, and must earn it back by following his father's example.

More than that, he finds he must grow beyond living in that shadow, potentially serving as a leader like Pike, or in a new role. A crisis of identity that he has to resolve in order to be an effective leader. At each step he gets a different example of other leader types he can be, from Pike, to Marcus, to even Edison, and how to be strong without being a dictator, or revenge obsessed. His relationship with Spock has a great dynamic, and him and Bones do so well together. Kirk is a great story.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I forgot about Spock and McCoy's friendship. It's nice to see them getting along, even if it took a puncture wound to make it happen.

Uhura does fill the "tender loving human" role in Spock's life that his mother leaves empty. Just as Pike fills the father figure role for Kirk. That's when Kirk takes up Pike's fatherhood mantle over his crew while still retaining his Kirkishness.

 

[Yistaan]

I was rewatching 'Into Darkness' and it wasn't as bad as I remembered once you kind of "compartmentalize" the Wrath of Khan ripoffs. It's surprisingly resonant with the crazy old guy insisting he and only he can make the galaxy safe and in his hubris ends up making things worse (it's a message I think even actor Peter Weller didn't understand going by his statements where he insists that Marcus isn't a villain). I rewatched it this week and surprisingly my opinion of the film went up (I generally considered it one of the worst Trek films since it released).

One major problem though was Kirk indulging in "police brutality" by punching up Khan even AFTER Khan surrendered. That should have been cut entirely. Kirk was supposed to be the younger, more open-minded guy who was learning that his superiors were shady and he was supposed to be showing how his rule-bending methods were different from a guy like Admiral Marcus'. However, that gratuitous scene of him punching up Khan after arresting him derails that whole narrative and, for that scene alone, makes Kirk look no different than Marcus, which undermines the entire message of the film.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It shows that anybody can lose control in the heat of the moment, doesn't it? He's only Human.

 

[Yistaan]

It shows that anybody can lose control in the heat of the moment, doesn't it? He's only Human.

It's a crime in real life, ESPECIALLY by law enforcement figures, and Kirk threw way more than one punch at Khan. It's inexcusable.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

He shouldn't have done it, but as part of the plot (apart from trying to figure out how Starfleet would have dealt with his actions after the fact) it can be understood, though not excused.

 

[fireproof78]

However, that gratuitous scene of him punching up Khan after arresting him derails that whole narrative and, for that scene alone, makes Kirk look no different than Marcus, which undermines the entire message of the film.

I don't agree that it undermines the message at all. I think Kirk had to learn that victory by any means necessary is not actually victory. Marcus serves as a dark mirror to what Kirk could become if he indulges in that behavior.

He has to learn to become better.

 

[altersalk]

Into Darkness Kirk has to learn that being ST09 Kirk 100% isn't what makes a good captain. Flying by the seat of your pants and having Caitian threesomes is fun and all, but Pike realizes he's handed the Enterprise to an overgrown child and pulls him back. Pike's death sends Kirk on a mission of revenge that everyone tries to tell him Is A Bad Idea, but he's too blinded by rage until it's way too late, and he has to stand there, helpless, apologizing to his crew for getting them all killed.

 

[somebuddyX]

I thought Kirk had an interesting arc of an idiot that consistently failed upwards, got called out for his reckless actions in the second film only to not have to face any consequences by literally escaping death's grasp, and then goes on a deep space mission only to be face with the reality of the situation that entails and want to leave. This was a guy who liked to solve problems and punch things mostly by doing it himself or with a few people. He would have made a very good space James Bond operative guy.

 

[fireproof78]

Into Darkness Kirk has to learn that being ST09 Kirk 100% isn't what makes a good captain. Flying by the seat of your pants and having Caitian threesomes is fun and all, but Pike realizes he's handed the Enterprise to an overgrown child and pulls him back. Pike's death sends Kirk on a mission of revenge that everyone tries to tell him Is A Bad Idea, but he's too blinded by rage until it's way too late, and he has to stand there, helpless, apologizing to his crew for getting them all killed.

Excellent point. One thing I enjoy about the Kelvin films is that you get glimpses of potential for what Kirk can be, but it's dogged by immaturity.

Only when he has to face death, and is humbled, does he accept the possibility that sacrifice might be the only way. In that moment, he's lost, yet willing to sacrifice himself for his crew.

A lesson alluded to in 09.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It came down to him or Scotty, which is interesting because it's like Kirk makes up for forcing Scott's hand regarding his earlier resignation, by sparing the engineer from suffering what would have been permanent death for Jim (had McCoy not thought of using Khan's blood before Starfleet whisked the cryotubes away.)

(If it wasn't for Kirk's high profile, certain insidious powers might have maintained the pretense that he was dead and locked him in some secret research lab somewhere to study him.)

 

[Yistaan]

Into Darkness Kirk has to learn that being ST09 Kirk 100% isn't what makes a good captain. Flying by the seat of your pants and having Caitian threesomes is fun and all, but Pike realizes he's handed the Enterprise to an overgrown child and pulls him back. Pike's death sends Kirk on a mission of revenge that everyone tries to tell him Is A Bad Idea, but he's too blinded by rage until it's way too late, and he has to stand there, helpless, apologizing to his crew for getting them all killed.

Did we watch the same movie? Because the movie I watched had Kirk pull back on the misson of revenge (police brutality against Khan aside that I mentioned earlier), arrest Khan and question him, and find out the truth and that literally gave his crew a chance to survive (which they mostly did barring casualties obviously). If Kirk really had gone on the mission of revenge, he would've used the torpedoes against Khan, the Enterprise would STILL be trapped in Klingon space (because Marcus sabotaged the warp core either way) and the Enterprise would've died by either the Klingons or Marcus (this time without Khan to help them fight back).

Spock told Kirk the "mission of revenge" is "A Bad Idea", but remember, Kirk was under direct orders by Admiral Marcus to take the mission of revenge. As it was, Kirk disobeyed those orders in favor of the Starfleet way of arresting people instead of assassinating them, which saved him and his crew (when he could've easily hid behind the "just following orders" excuse to indulge in his desire for revenge).

Yeah, Kirk was an overgrown man-child, but he ultimately grew up. Marcus was an overgrown man-child playing with augment toys he shouldn't be touching, obviously never grew up going by his rants, and died that way. Pike dies a hero in the movie, but honestly if he hadn't he would've had to face serious questions about how much he knew about what Marcus was doing.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk was persuaded by Spock and the rest of the crew despite his orders. He wanted revenge still; that was his driving force in hunting Harrison down. He just opted to not execute him without a trial.

But, he's still on about revenge and rage until he discovers the depths of Marcus's plans and violations of orders. But, by that point, it's far too late to save his crew, except that Scotty shows up and gives them a reprieve.

Ultimately, Kirk has to make the ultimate sacrifice for his crew, leaning in the example of his father, and the test that the Kobyashi Maru represents.

 

[Yistaan]

Kirk was persuaded by Spock and the rest of the crew despite his orders. He wanted revenge still; that was his driving force in hunting Harrison down. He just opted to not execute him without a trial.

But, he's still on about revenge and rage until he discovers the depths of Marcus's plans and violations of orders. But, by that point, it's far too late to save his crew, except that Scotty shows up and gives them a reprieve.

Ultimately, Kirk has to make the ultimate sacrifice for his crew, leaning in the example of his father, and the test that the Kobyashi Maru represents.

At that point I'd have to say it ended up, in-universe, being a lucky accident. Kirk was wrong to have vengeful feelings but it ended up working out. If, after Pike died, Kirk said, "Man, I want revenge but I know I shouldn't so I'm sitting this one out and requesting me and my crew get a 1 month shore leave until I calm down", then Marcus would've found some other chump to go get Khan, that person would've used the torpedoes without question, and the movie would've ended up with a full blown Klingon war (maybe the chump he finds in the Kelvin Timeline is named Michael Burnham).

IDW comics aside (which apparently do depict some Klingon conflict, but ultimately aren't canon), it seems that ironically Kirk being vengeful at first, and then calming down at the exact right moment, is what avoided a 2250s Klingon war that we now know from Discovery wasn't avoided in the Prime Timeline.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk was wrong to have vengeful feelings but it ended up working out. I

Sure glad I went on this mission and died rather than taking leave.

and then calming down at the exact right moment, is what avoided a 2250s Klingon war that we now know from Discovery wasn't avoided in the Prime Timeline.

It seemed to be keeping the balance of power between the Federation and Klingon Empire. Both had to face down the Narada and then build back.

 

[Yistaan]

Sure glad I went on this mission and died rather than taking leave.

Lucky accident for the Fed, not for Kirk. And ultimately although he died he seemingly didn't suffer permanent effects after his resurrection (it's not even mentioned in Beyond).

 

[fireproof78]

Lucky accident for the Fed, not for Kirk. And ultimately although he died he seemingly didn't suffer permanent effects after his resurrection (it's not even mentioned in Beyond).

His demeanour is much different and I think the choice, and his birthday impacted him.

 

[Yistaan]

His demeanour is much different and I think the choice, and his birthday impacted him.

If that's a permanent negative effect I'd argue that I and people I know are suffering worse (to the point of not even celebrating their birthdays anymore) but to detail that would bring non-relevant real life topics into this thread against the rules, so yeah, hard disagree is all I'll say then.

 

[fireproof78]

If that's a permanent negative effect I'd argue that I and people I know are suffering worse (to the point of not even celebrating their birthdays anymore) but to detail that would bring non-relevant real life topics into this thread against the rules, so yeah, hard disagree is all I'll say then.

I'm suffering worse too.

Why does negativity need to be a competition? Kirk clearly struggles as he makes peace with himself and how he grows. His perception is as important as my judgement as an audience member