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Kai Winn... Don't You Just Love To Hate Her?

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Pahwraith

Ensign
Red Shirt
I love Kai Winn. But at the same time I really hate Kai Winn. That's the greatness of her character. When she comes to the classroom while Keiko is teaching, and she starts going on about how the wormhole isn't a wormhole, but the Temple of the Prophets, that's just epic. And let's not forget how many times she used the word "child" to talk down to Major Kira.

So now take the assenine nature of Kai Winn, plus the demented evil that is Gul Dukat, and mix them together nicely with one cup of hot water in the 7th season, and good god you have the greatest show on earth.

Comments?
 
I'm very much in two minds about Winn. I really find it hard to tell if I hate her because she's a shit character or because she's a genius character who has produced exactly the intended reaction in me.
 
^ I think it's the latter.

I got a little thrill every time she called Kira "child". I just wanted Kira to slap the crap out of her. :D
 
cultsacrifice said:
I'm very much in two minds about Winn. I really find it hard to tell if I hate her because she's a shit character or because she's a genius character who has produced exactly the intended reaction in me.
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I think you got it right on the nose. If you're split about her character, then they did exactly what they were aiming to do. Make her a hated character, but the way the actress plays that role makes you appreciate the depth of her character AND hate her simultaneously.

Kai Winn is so purely evil she'd fit right in with Lex Luthor, Bizarro and Sinestro in the Legion of Doom. She'd probably be Lex's right hand wench.
 
The genius of her character also lies in the fact that there are lots of people in real life who are JUST LIKE HER.
 
I've only seen oh... 4 episodes (During the Circle arc and the series finales) with her in it. She seems more like an opportunistic woman that happens to use evil to get to where she wants to be.

From the looks of it, I would have thought her to be an evil character, though I haven't seen enough episodes to make myself stop thinking "Hey! It's that woman from High School High!" :cardie:
 
The last episode I saw her in was Life Support which was a good one for her. Essentially she's on the station helping to form a peace treaty between the Cardassians and Bajorans, and comes across as somewhat sympathetic when she confides in Sisko about Bareil having been the key negotiator and knowing more about things than her. Of course, Bareil is lying undead in sickbay, and she can't help but keep badgering him and asking for help to keep the treaty going, despite what it's doing for his health. It's a classic case of her showing her good side, before also being ammoral, power-hungry and totally out for herself. I loved her character (well, loved to hate her as the topic suggests) and Louise Fletcher was a piece of inspired casting.
 
To me, Kai Winn was the personification of the saying, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." I think she honestly believed she was called by the Prophets, that she was meant to lead Bajor. She was deluded, and all of her intended meddling came to bear upon her and the Bajoran people.

J.
 
J. O'Lantern said:
To me, Kai Winn was the personification of the saying, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." I think she honestly believed she was called by the Prophets, that she was meant to lead Bajor. She was deluded, and all of her intended meddling came to bear upon her and the Bajoran people.

J.
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Agreed. Found it interesting at the end when she tells Sisko that the Prophets must have blessed his marriage to Kasidy. It was like in that instant Sisko knew that she wasn't a true Kai.

Still the scene where she kills her assistant still gets me. There's just a moment when you think she'll realize what she's doing. Then she kills him and you know there's no going back.

Someone on here mentioned it would have been cool if we saw Kai Winn in the psychiatric hospital with Benny ;)
 
I could not stand that woman. I just wanted to throw something at "her" every time she came on screen. S P O I L E R She should have been taken out when she engineered the assassination of Barriel in Season 1... how come no one assassinated her??? Good riddance...
 
cultsacrifice said:
I'm very much in two minds about Winn. I really find it hard to tell if I hate her because she's a shit character or because she's a genius character who has produced exactly the intended reaction in me.
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She's a genius character played by a brilliant actress - one of the best actresses of all time in fact. That's why she won a best actress Oscar for playing a similar type of character prior to DS9.:techman: That's why I absolutely love Winn and she is not annoying at all.

On the other hand, Keiko O'Brien is played by a horrendous actress who is inherently annoying due to terrible acting. She gives an identical performance to Winn, yet, she is unwatchably annoying because her character is not supposed to be like that.

I always found this dynamic fascinating. How the same end result performance can inspire such different emotions depending on the intent of the actress. I love Winn dearly, but hate Keiko vehemently.
 
Navaros said:
cultsacrifice said:
I'm very much in two minds about Winn. I really find it hard to tell if I hate her because she's a shit character or because she's a genius character who has produced exactly the intended reaction in me.
Click to expand...

She's a genius character played by a brilliant actress - one of the best actresses of all time in fact. That's why she won a best actress Oscar for playing a similar type of character prior to DS9.:techman: That's why I absolutely love Winn and she is not annoying at all.

On the other hand, Keiko O'Brien is played by a horrendous actress who is inherently annoying due to terrible acting. She gives an identical performance to Winn, yet, she is unwatchably annoying because her character is not supposed to be like that.

I always found this dynamic fascinating. How the same end result performance can inspire such different emotions depending on the intent of the actress. I love Winn dearly, but hate Keiko vehemently.
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I'm honestly the other way around- I understood where Keiko was coming from, and I didn't think she did a bad job, esp as a guest start. But despite the fact that the actress reminds me of an old friend- Winn was just a terrible person. Despite all that Bajor went through, she was only out for herself and her political advancement- and when that didn't work, she didn't realize it was because of her actions, but blamed everyone else, joined forces with evil itself, and tried to hurt even more people... she bugs me to death.
 
Winn was just an evil, manipulative beotch, to put it scientifically. ;)

My mom recognized her as having been on a soap opera--and surprisingly, that acting style worked wonderfully!

As for Keiko O'Brien--I just never could like the character. She never came across as a nice person, and that just seemed like a poor match to Miles.
 
Agreed on Keiko, she was a horrible character, whiny and remarkably poorly matched to Miles, who was very likeable. For one of the very few examples of a marriage we've seen on Star Trek it's a shame they went for the nagging-wife-resents-the-best-friend stereotype.
 
Louise Fletcher. I'm a fan. An excellently portrayed character. She managed to get layers of meaning into just about everything she said. It was a masterclass in character development.
 
cultsacrifice said:
Agreed on Keiko, she was a horrible character, whiny and remarkably poorly matched to Miles, who was very likeable. For one of the very few examples of a marriage we've seen on Star Trek it's a shame they went for the nagging-wife-resents-the-best-friend stereotype.
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Did she "really" resent Julian though? And if so, was it really that bad- that a man with 2 small kids spent huge hours with a guy he formerly couldn't stand when he could have been spending it with his family? Especially once the war hit and they all could have died at any moment... I mean, yes, we all need adult time with friends, but it seemed like they were in the holosuites endlessly... and then there was that huge alamo rep. in the O'Brien's living room.

I think Keiko was a good buffer for O'Brien- yes, not as joyful and carefree- that could be racial, but she keep him from being to xenophobic too, insisting he give Cardassians etc. a chance- like the young boy- that would have gone totally different without her.
 
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