John Nathan-Turner the Deathlord of Dr. Who

[starsuperion]

Say what you will, and even Turner has his acknowledgements.. but I don't think he regrets what he did to the show, or the pressures he was under.. budget wise, and so on.. But I really truly think.. the beginning of the downfall for the series happened under his watch and began with the campy, almost 1960's Batmanesque, comic superhero one costume, and campy, unflattering stories, and just inane mistakes..one after another.. all began with the 6th doctor. the trial of a time lord was so long and dragged on and on.. tho some aspects were awesome, most were horrible.. there was just so much that didn't go right.. so much that could have been different. If low budget was an issue, then go back to the early days of Hartnell, and their budget was even less, and yet they did so much more with a richness not captured in the Turner years.. I really have no sympathy for him.. I mean with all the talk in the 6th doctor's jacket.. any one of these renditions would have been a marked improvement.. I think they should release the 6th Doctor series remastered, with a concentrated effort in editing the stories for flow, and recolour his outfit digitally..



any one of these would have worked.. tho black digitally recoloring would be easier to do, then the blue.



tho it just wasn't the outfit.. the stories were horrible! there could have been a simple formulaic return to the days of Pertwee and Unit, and still work in a spacey adventure.. that would have at least saved money and provided good use towards props and effects.. but the stories.. some were just very very bad..

 

[Sindatur]

Eh, I can totally picture Six actually believing that God-awful looking coat was fashionable. Twin Dilemma, yea, was a pretty bad start, but, I enjoy the rest of Colin Baker's stories (Other than Revelation of The Daleks), especially Trial of A Timelord.

 

[starsuperion]

Eh, I can totally picture Six actually believing that God-awful looking coat was fashionable. Twin Dilemma, yea, was a pretty bad start, but, I enjoy the rest of Colin Baker's stories (Other than Revelation of The Daleks), especially Trial of A Timelord.

Well the Cyberman episodes were good.. I can say that. the Revelation of the Daleks.. so so.. the twin dilemma.. meh, yea I didn't like that at all.. and the one with him riding a stationary exercise bicycle in the TARDIS with Mel?? WTF was that about? really?

 

[starsuperion]

Here is a QNA with JNT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED8Y9ekzkvk

 

[Sindatur]

Eh, I can totally picture Six actually believing that God-awful looking coat was fashionable. Twin Dilemma, yea, was a pretty bad start, but, I enjoy the rest of Colin Baker's stories (Other than Revelation of The Daleks), especially Trial of A Timelord.

Well the Cyberman episodes were good.. I can say that. the Revelation of the Daleks.. so so.. the twin dilemma.. meh, yea I didn't like that at all.. and the one with him riding a stationary exercise bicycle in the TARDIS with Mel?? WTF was that about? really?

Oh, come on, LOL, the exercise Bike was only a minute or two of screentime.

Truth be told, as mediocre as Twin Dilemma is, I still like it better than Revelation of the Daleks.(at least the Cop is nice eye-candy in Twin Dilemma )

 

[kirk55555]

I can think of a bunch of Doctor Who stories, old and new, that I dislike more than The Twin Dilemma. Also, say what you want about the coat (I love it, but I can see why people hate it) it makes him one of the most distinct Doctor's, and every "recoloring" of the coat I've seen just looks bad (especially that black on in the first post, there has been enough Doctor's with black clothes, plus it just looks bad). I also wouldn't edit his stories. Also, like Sindatur said, the exercise bike (while stupid) was on screen for 1-2 minutes. If anything was going to be edited, I'd want Mel digitally replaced with a good companion

The Sixth Doctor's run could have been a lot better, but it wasn't generally as bad as its reputation has it (at least to me). Editing anything at this point, whether you think the improvements are good or bad, would just be goofy. I wish he'd gotten more time and better writers overall, but I still love the 6th Doctor as he is.

 

[Ithekro]

The Sixth Doctor with the Eleventh Doctor's idioms:

"I wear a loud cout now. Loud coats are cool".

 

[starsuperion]

Eh, I can totally picture Six actually believing that God-awful looking coat was fashionable. Twin Dilemma, yea, was a pretty bad start, but, I enjoy the rest of Colin Baker's stories (Other than Revelation of The Daleks), especially Trial of A Timelord.

Well the Cyberman episodes were good.. I can say that. the Revelation of the Daleks.. so so.. the twin dilemma.. meh, yea I didn't like that at all.. and the one with him riding a stationary exercise bicycle in the TARDIS with Mel?? WTF was that about? really?

Oh, come on, LOL, the exercise Bike was only a minute or two of screentime.

Truth be told, as mediocre as Twin Dilemma is, I still like it better than Revelation of the Daleks.(at least the Cop is nice eye-candy in Twin Dilemma )

See now you make me want to wade through that episode just to see what the drooling is about.. If they had taken a que from the Doctor who magazine comics, which arguably had some of the best writing with the 6TH Doctor, then I would have been able to look passed the coat.. I mean, instead of Chameleon as a companion, I would have loved to have seen them do a Realistic and creatively shot rendition of Frobisher for the series, now that would have been marvelous!

seeing JNT in drag in the last interview episode is worth the trodding through it..

I can think of a bunch of Doctor Who stories, old and new, that I dislike more than The Twin Dilemma. Also, say what you want about the coat (I love it, but I can see why people hate it) it makes him one of the most distinct Doctor's, and every "recoloring" of the coat I've seen just looks bad (especially that black on in the first post, there has been enough Doctor's with black clothes, plus it just looks bad). I also wouldn't edit his stories. Also, like Sindatur said, the exercise bike (while stupid) was on screen for 1-2 minutes. If anything was going to be edited, I'd want Mel digitally replaced with a good companion

The Sixth Doctor's run could have been a lot better, but it wasn't generally as bad as its reputation has it (at least to me). Editing anything at this point, whether you think the improvements are good or bad, would just be goofy. I wish he'd gotten more time and better writers overall, but I still love the 6th Doctor as he is.

Oh I agree, Twin Dilemma isn't the worst episode by far in Doctor who.. I would say there are quite a few in the Sylvester McCoy years that are just horrible..take for example the happiness patrol, or the ghost light..paradise towers

 

[Sindatur]

The Cop in Twin Dilemma is a guy, so, unless you're Gay, you won't agree with me about Eye-candy.

I like all three of those McCoy Serials, the ones I don't like are Delta and The Bannermen and Time and The Rani (Two Mels<SHUDDER>)

I would love to see Frobisher in an episode. My only exposure to him is The Holy Terror Audio, but, the voice for him is just so awesome, IMHO

 

[starsuperion]

The Cop in Twin Dilemma is a guy, so, unless you're Gay, you won't agree with me about Eye-candy.

I like all three of those McCoy Serials, the ones I don't like are Delta and The Bannermen and Time and The Rani (Two Mels<SHUDDER>)

I would love to see Frobisher in an episode. My only exposure to him is The Holy Terror Audio, but, the voice for him is just so awesome, IMHO

Eh.. No, I'm not gay sadly, which I believe is fine for anyone who is.. actually truth be told, I feel that I am rather the real life version of Ross from friends, as my son's mother is a lesbian, and one of my best friends is gay (nod to Mathew Perry) anyhow.. I Think the Time and the Rani was horrible.. particularly the opening scene with Ratigast, err.. Sylvester being confused about who he was dealing with, and the pace reminded me of the "who's on first joke" as it seemed just all over the place..

anyhow, but yes indeed, the voice actor for Frobisher was actually how I envisioned his voice when reading those wonderful comics! I just wish they were reprinted in colour and sold on the American market, as they were absolutely Fan-smegging-Tastic!

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

I'm watching Colin Bakers run right now...


That coat is rediculous. Why would the Doctor even own it & have it in his "wardrobe room"? Who would have made it?

Why would a producer make his male lead look like a clown? Colin Baker was made to look like a fool & I feel embarassed for him in all the interview DVD extras of the Era having to explain the costume!


In "The Twin Delimma" some of the set pieces are literally furniture wrapped in tin foil!


Colin Baker is actually one of my favorite Doctors. He and Nicola Bryant have great chemistry. I love the 80'show vibe of the show & it's one of my favorite eras, easily.

But the wheels were coming off fast! The shows quality was out of control and JNTs flamboyant bad taste soaked every frame & it's amazing this stuff made it to air and the BBC let JNT deliver this product.

JNT ruined Doctor Who in my opinion starting with Season 18. I find Sylvester McCoy's Era unwatchable!

 

[Lonemagpie]

The Cop in Twin Dilemma is a guy, so, unless you're Gay, you won't agree with me about Eye-candy.

He's now better known as Mr Gibbs, Jack Sparrow's right-hand man, in the Pirates Of The Caribbean films...

(and the mute pirate with the parrot is Dask, from Robots Of Death...)

 

[kirk55555]

The Cop in Twin Dilemma is a guy, so, unless you're Gay, you won't agree with me about Eye-candy.

I like all three of those McCoy Serials, the ones I don't like are Delta and The Bannermen and Time and The Rani (Two Mels<SHUDDER>)

I would love to see Frobisher in an episode. My only exposure to him is The Holy Terror Audio, but, the voice for him is just so awesome, IMHO

I enjoy Delta and the Bannerman, but I agree about Time and the Rani. In a world where that exists, I don't see how The Twin Dilemma is still considered the worst story from some people. I'd say there are more than just TaTR that are worse than TTD, but Time and the Rani is especially terrible. Not only is two Mel's probably a level in Hell, but basically every element of the story is done badly. That said, The Greatest Show in the Galaxy, another McCoy story, probably wins the award for my most hated Classic Who story I've seen.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ I agree with every point you made there! I find Delta and the Bannerman actually quite enjoyable! Time and the Rani is bad but nowhere near as hateable as Greatest Show in the Galaxy which is probably my least favorite classic Who story.

Mr Awe

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

It was the 80s. The 80s were LOUD in so many ways. I remember watching Colin's run in the 80s on PBS, and compared to so much of the other stuff I was watching (including pro wrestling, Knight Rider, Max Headroom, and pretty much every 1980s boys cartoon), it didn't stick out nearly as much as you'd think. Bad taste for sure, but JNT was not sticking out that far when it came to the garish production styles of the day.

That's to say that Colin Baker himself did superb work with the character of the Doctor, and I enjoyed watching him very much. And continue to do so through his audio adventure work.

Mark

 

[Mr Awe]

^ I have to disagree there. Colin Baker, while a nice man, is not a good actor. His limited range really reduced any nuances his type of Doctor might've had. The overall production values might not have been garish for the times but the coat sure was!

 

[Ithekro]

Somehow I'd like to see (or probably more likely hear) a multi-doctor story with the Sixth Doctor and the post-Time War Doctors that aren't the Valeyard. The egos would be all over the place with the 10th and 11th Doctors. The 12th Doctor is harsh about his past selfs, and the 9th Doctor...well I actually don't know how he'd take a visit from other Doctors. And the War Doctor would probably just yell at him for being frivolous and pompous ("Good god man, there's a war on. Do you want everyone on the battlefield to know where you are and shoot you? You're worse than Authur Wellesley.")

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

*Shrug* YMMV, of course. I really did enjoy his delivery and outbursts, as a defining part of his character. One of my faves.

Mark

 

[kirk55555]

Yeah, I thought Colin Baker played The Doctor well. I don't know if he was "The greatest actor ever", but he wasn't bad, and he played (and continues to play, in audio form) his version of The Doctor well. Honestly, I rarely have trouble with the acting of the various Doctors. The companions and side characters have definitely had some stinkers when it comes to acting ability, but I think all the Doctor's did their job well, and when they were bad in stories it was mostly down to writing, or bad characterization in the case of the 7th Doctor after Ace showed up. The 6th Doctor was supposed to be loud and boisterous, and Colin Baker did it well. He feels like The Doctor, and in the end that's the important part.

 

[diankra]

One less noticed problem with the Sixth Doctor's costume is something which John Nathan-Turner apparently didn't realise, but the costume and set designers had to work with.
The cameras had a limited range in terms of colour, brightness and contrast. So if the Doctor's costume was 'loud' in those terms, then the other costumes and the sets had to be within a certain range of it (even though the cameras' capabilities could probably be stretched, the designers had to work within the technical constraints as laid down in the manuals, and would do so almost automatically).
Hence Peri gets very loud bright costumes from Twin Dilemma onwards. And the sets look like Twin Dilemma and Timelash rather than, say, being dark and moody with the colour of the Doctor shining out amongst them.