Is Cardassian the official language of Bajor?

[JirinPanthosa]

Just a thought that crossed my mind watching Second Skin and wondering if Kira spoke Cardassian.

During the occupation, did the Cardassian language replace the Bajoran language, as a symbol of their cultural submission? Does 'Ancient Bajoran' refer to the original language prior to the Occupation? Or do you think that they were so accustomed to universal translators that nobody bothered?

Maybe the current Bajoran language is to pre-Occupation Bajoran as modern English is to old English? With a lot of Cardassian root words applied to Bajoran grammatical rules?

 

[UnknownSample]

Hmmm. I think they probably throw you in jail for speaking Cardassian. Unless they did eradicate the Bajoran language thoroughly in the Occupation. It was only 50 years, though. Ireland speaks English as their first language... despite having fought for and won independence from the English.
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I wondered if a language difference would be a dead giveaway to Kira that she's not a Cardassian spy. She'd think of turning the UT off at some point, and listening to everyone's words including her own, and seeing if she understood everything.
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I think it's a given that Kira speaks both languages. The person they're telling her she is, as a sort of spy, would also speak both languages, Bajoran and Cardassian, and everyone there knows it including Kira, once she hears the story. Kira speaks Cardassian with her captors to make things easier, or lets the UT do it.
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It was an interesting question, though, and it took me a couple minutes to puzzle it out.

 

[Timo]

There's also the bit in "Necessary Evil" where Rom reads a note written in Bajoran. Rom would not have been witness to pre-Occupation Bajoran, while those writing the note would have been - or at least would have held the language of their free and independent grandparents in high esteem. So we get at least a hint of language continuity across the Occupation.

Granted that it's just a list of proper names. But at least it tells the way of writing did not change. Much. Probably.

In contrast, we supposedly see the "ancient" version of the language chiseled into the various ancient artifacts, and it doesn't look as if it would contain the letter "cee", as in the (unseen) note. It's clearly in the style of pictograms or similar large entities, rather than a series of independent letters denoting sounds.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I doubt most Bajorans would have been taught to read enough Cardassian to support a broad service on a planetary scale after the occupation. Limiting education in the Cardassian language would have been an effective means of holding onto information, preventing it from being (too) useful to any insurgency. Conversely,teaching them just enough Cardassian to fulfill the jobs required of them would focus them on fulfilling those tasks and breaking down their resistance. It's not too different from what Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi witnessed in concentration camps: SS guards used rudimentary commands, sometimes using unusual understandings of certain words, in order to disorient prisoners. Furthermore, it would retard efforts of Bajorans to take control of the administration of government (partially seen in "Cardassians").

What's unusual is that the native language survived. The continuation of Bajoran religion likely helped to create a higher level of literacy than should be expected except under rare circumstances. Broad awareness of Akora's poetry suggests that Bajorans did an exceptional job of teaching a deep understanding of Bajoran language. Of course, that would not let them fix Cardassian computers.

 

[UnknownSample]

"Ancient" means extremely old. The Cardassians were only there 50 years. A Bajoran language shunned for 50 years would be old, but not ancient.

 

[Kor]

Real-world post-colonial situations run the gamut in this regard. Some countries still use the colonial language in an official capacity, for government, education, business, etc., but largely use native language(s) in day-to-day life; while in some countries, the colonial language largely supplanted the local language in all walks of life, and other countries have done their utmost to get rid of the colonial language and any influences it may have had on the native language. I imagine Bajor as the last one.

Kor

 

[Timo]

The Occupation probably only really touched a tiny fraction of the Bajoran population.

How much labor would really have been needed, out of the supposed billions living on the planet? We only ever saw or heard mentioned one refinery, the one on orbit, and only one forced labor camp that apparently was producing nothing else but dead bodies: most of the actual pillaging of the planet would probably have been extensively automated.

How much administration would have been needed? We didn't really learn of Cardassians managing Bajor in the bureaucratic sense, nor of them telling Bajorans to run their place differently from the pre-Occupation norm. The Vedek Assembly or the Council of Ministers may have been on an Occupation-long hiatus, but it's not as if there would have been much use for these bodies in the pre-Occupation culture that had existed for hundreds of millennia and probably was running on total automation anyway.

What little we saw of the planet appeared untouched as such: the squabbling villages of "The Storyteller" had probably never even seen a Cardassian, the monks lived in their happy solitude, and while the big (capital?) city appeared neglected and perhaps even abandoned, that as such would not have promoted interaction with Cardassians...

Kira's cover story in "Necessary Evil" involved skilled labor relatively freely moving from assignment to assignment - her "career" in replicator management on the surface had come to an end, and she was now looking for an interim job at Quark's but hoping for better. This probably would require some familiarity with Cardassian instrumentation and its operating language at least. Then again, our UFP heroes were immediately fluent in said language! So possibly it was not Cardassian, but rather Universal, adapting to the needs of the user.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[UnknownSample]

Replicator management, eh? Weren't Picard and Ro introducing Bajor to replicators, that first time we saw and heard of Bajor?

 

[Paradise City]

It depends really. Cardassian seems a resolutely Cardassian-centric society that places stress on conformity and loyalty that doesn't seem to abide anything that would challenge it. So, I'd say that Cardassian is the formal official language whilst perhaps the occupation authorities discreetly ensure that Bajoran is retained as a spoken language to create a two tier society, with the Bajorans firmly on the bottom rung.

 

[Timo]

Replicator management, eh? Weren't Picard and Ro introducing Bajor to replicators, that first time we saw and heard of Bajor?

Not to my knowledge. There was some talk about replicating stuff for the refugees, but that was it.

All the flashbacks in DS9 show Cardassian replicators on Terok Nor in the 2350s or so already. We never really see a "Bajoran replicator" or hear a reference to such a thing, though. What the UFP does want to give to Bajor is "industrial replicators", as late in the game as "For the Cause", but that doesn't tell us whether Bajorans already had those before the Cardassians came and pillaged everything.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[mlk]

I don't see why it would be. Not like Cardassia wanted to integrate the bajoran people into the cardassian life and culture.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I really don't see how 50 years is anywhere near long enough to even try to eradicate a language spoken by an entire planetary population.

There are probably people still on Bajor who were already alive before the Cardassians came.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The Occupation probably only really touched a tiny fraction of the Bajoran population.

How much labor would really have been needed, out of the supposed billions living on the planet? We only ever saw or heard mentioned one refinery, the one on orbit, and only one forced labor camp that apparently was producing nothing else but dead bodies: most of the actual pillaging of the planet would probably have been extensively automated.

How much administration would have been needed? We didn't really learn of Cardassians managing Bajor in the bureaucratic sense, nor of them telling Bajorans to run their place differently from the pre-Occupation norm. The Vedek Assembly or the Council of Ministers may have been on an Occupation-long hiatus, but it's not as if there would have been much use for these bodies in the pre-Occupation culture that had existed for hundreds of millennia and probably was running on total automation anyway.

What little we saw of the planet appeared untouched as such: the squabbling villages of "The Storyteller" had probably never even seen a Cardassian, the monks lived in their happy solitude, and while the big (capital?) city appeared neglected and perhaps even abandoned, that as such would not have promoted interaction with Cardassians...

Kira's cover story in "Necessary Evil" involved skilled labor relatively freely moving from assignment to assignment - her "career" in replicator management on the surface had come to an end, and she was now looking for an interim job at Quark's but hoping for better. This probably would require some familiarity with Cardassian instrumentation and its operating language at least. Then again, our UFP heroes were immediately fluent in said language! So possibly it was not Cardassian, but rather Universal, adapting to the needs of the user.

Timo Saloniemi

I don't know, the Cardassians always seem to want total domination and total order. Even if a lot of people on Bajor weren't directly enslaved they surely had oppressingly high taxation of every industry. "You get just enough to survive, we get the rest" level.

As for Necessary Evil, that note came a few years before the end of the Occupation.

@grendelsbayne

I don't think they eradicated the language for the whole population, but they might have insisted children be raised speaking Cardassian. Cardassians are into symbolic cultural dominion and submission of language is a big symbol, just like in Tribbles the Klingon boasted "Soon everyone in the Federation will be speaking Klingonese".

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I don't know, the Cardassians always seem to want total domination and total order. Even if a lot of people on Bajor weren't directly enslaved they surely had oppressingly high taxation of every industry. "You get just enough to survive, we get the rest" level.

As for Necessary Evil, that note came a few years before the end of the Occupation.

@grendelsbayne

I don't think they eradicated the language for the whole population, but they might have insisted children be raised speaking Cardassian. Cardassians are into symbolic cultural dominion and submission of language is a big symbol, just like in Tribbles the Klingon boasted "Soon everyone in the Federation will be speaking Klingonese".

Right, but for that to be effective, the practice still would need to last longer (or be much more invasive than it could've been - ie, we know most Bajorans lived/grew up with bajorans, not in Cardassian mandated schools). Telling people their kids have to learn Cardassian only makes them hide the fact that they're also teaching them Bajoran.

 

[Six of Twelve]

Replicator management, eh? Weren't Picard and Ro introducing Bajor to replicators, that first time we saw and heard of Bajor?

They weren't on the Bajoran homeworld in that episode, but a colony planet. It was even said on that episode that the Cardassians had driven most Bajorans off Bajor and that they were now mostly a race of refugees scattered on several different planets. Of course, DS9 ignored the Bajoran diaspora idea, showing most Bajorans as having remained on Bajor during the occupation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

After the occupation, I wouldn't expect there'd be a single Bajoran left on the planet who would dare speak Cardassian. They'd probably consider it the filthiest thing imaginable.

 

[kkt]

No, Cardassian isn't the official language of Bajor. Ducking that question in Second Skin is just one of those dramatic necessities; explaining it away wouldn't make an interesting use of a couple of minutes of screen time. If you want something in-universe, figure that both Kira and Illiana were fluent in both. Illiana had training with Cardassian intelligence before her mission, and Kira had training in Cardassian-run schools and possibly training for undercover missions for the resistance.

In Earth colonial societies, the colonial power insists that their language be taught but usually doesn't succeed in suppressing the indigenous language unless that occupation lasts for centuries at least.

 

[Timo]

Of course, DS9 ignored the Bajoran diaspora idea, showing most Bajorans as having remained on Bajor during the occupation.

The writers cleverly exploited just about every real-world angle on diasporas and occupations, so it was not pure Palestine or Holocaust or Ireland or anything like that. Yet it would make sense for the Cardassians to play the role of the Space Nazis to the hilt: they would at first promote emigration from Bajor, then start actively deporting people, and only ultimately adopt a policy of placing the undesirables on death camps.

Naturally, "most Bajorans" would remain on Bajor anyway: it would be logistically impossible to move them away, even if Cardassia felt ready to part forever with the thousands of interstellar spacecraft required. This wouldn't stop the refugee camps from existing, though.

If you want something in-universe, figure that both Kira and Illiana were fluent in both.

Also let's remember that Kira didn't actually at any point get uncertain about who she was. Her skin had been rather fantastically altered; the evil Cardassians might just as well have altered her language to the Cardassianeseianish it evidently was in the episode. This wouldn't count as evidence one way or another - but more fundamentally, she wasn't interested in evidence for pressing her case, as she felt no need to press a case, already knowing fully well that she was Nerys rather than Illiana.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[-Brett-]

Cardassians seemed to view their conquest of Bajor as nothing more than a resource grab. I don't remember them showing any interest in imposing their culture or language.

I got the impression a few times that the Cardassians might even have been offended by the idea of Bajorans adopting their language or culture.

 

[UnknownSample]

Also let's remember that Kira didn't actually at any point get uncertain about who she was. Her skin had been rather fantastically altered; the evil Cardassians might just as well have altered her language to the Cardassianeseianish it evidently was in the episode. This wouldn't count as evidence one way or another - but more fundamentally, she wasn't interested in evidence for pressing her case, as she felt no need to press a case, already knowing fully well that she was Nerys rather than Illiana.

Timo Saloniemi

That would have been a very boring episode. She feels her sense of reality threatened most of the time throughout the episode-- there was always this tinge of deperation under the denials and sarcasm. Her self doubt never went over 50%, or got even close to that. It was still significant, though.