In ITPM, why did Vreenak wait so long to...

[Captain Robau]

contact the Romulans about Sisko's deception? After being decieved by Starfleet, don't you think relaying this information to Romulus would be the first thing to do on his list? And yes, I know the real world answer is because the script said so. I just want an in-world explanation/speculation.

I searched this question and did see people with ideas that the Romulans probably knew this was a deception but proceeded with it anyway (to give them a strategic advantage). I know the Senator also took a "secret" detour to DS9 so maybe that had something to do with his communication silence.

IDK, what do you all think?

 

[LeadHead]

Romulans love to have the advantage. If the Federation turned the tables on their own and won the war, then Siskos deception gives them leverage in their future dealings.

Telling people about that is a gun with a single bullet. You fire it once, and that's it. Vreenak didn't want to waste it.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

After being decieved by Starfleet, don't you think relaying this information to Romulus would be the first thing to do on his list?

Maybe he did do that. Betcha there were Romulans in the Senate who didn't like Vreenak's peace treaty with the Doms one bit. They would have understood that once the Feds & Klingons were out of the way, the Romulans would have been next on the Dominion hit list. They weren't naive like the Cardies what an alliance with the Dominion meant.

Vreenak reported what was going on, and when he failed to report in again, the Romulans realized that he'd been murdered on DS9. But they kept quiet because with Vreenak out of the way, his foes in the Senate were ascendant. They wasted no time allying themselves with the Feds, and kept their knowledge of the crime in reserve, planning to use it against the Feds someday. Considering how holier-than-thou the Feddies can be, that's a powerful weapon and not to be expended lightly.

How else could Vreenak just vanish from the face of the galaxy without any investigation from Romulus? His flight trajectory couldn't have been a secret from everyone back home. He couldn't have been so foolish as to divert to DS9 and not let someone know about it.

 

[Finn]

^agreed. It's possible the Romulans knew from the start and needed an excuse to enter the war. They could use this claim to say the Dominion broke the no-agression treaty they signed. There has to be those on the Sentate who disliked him.

 

[DonIago]

Of course, it's just as likely that Sisko knew that, if things went to pot, Vreenak would try to contact the Romulans as soon as possible, and consequently made sure that there was no way in hell Vreenak would be able to communicate with Romulus from DS9. "Oh, I'm sorry you can't reach Romulus...must be an ion storm or something..."

If memory serves Sisko had ordered communications restricted in the past.

 

[Finn]

He coulda have sent a message once he was more than five light years from DS9. At that point, Sisko couldn't have prevented it. The dialogue suggested that the bomb went off when Vreenak's shuttle was in a territory where the Romulans could go to and investigate, which is probably quite a distance from DS9.

 

[DonIago]

Maybe Garak sabotaged the shuttle's comm systems as well.

 

[StarryEyed]

The bigger question was why Vreenak revealed he had seen through the forgery. That's signing his own death warrant. From a Romulan viewpoint, there is no way Sisko could have allowed him to leave the station alive.

I doubt it would have mattered in the end; Garak was going to blow that shuttle one way or the other.

 

[PorthosShadow]

The bigger question was why Vreenak revealed he had seen through the forgery. That's signing his own death warrant. From a Romulan viewpoint, there is no way Sisko could have allowed him to leave the station alive.

I doubt it would have mattered in the end; Garak was going to blow that shuttle one way or the other.

I don't think Vreenak knew about Garak's involement and probably assumed that the forgery was a result of Starfleet Intelligence. Also, while Vreenak may not like The Federation, Starfleet or Sisko I don't think he thought for one moment they were capable of assassination. So maybe in the end Vreenak's fate was decided because he was a typical arogant Romulan who underestimated The Federation. As the saying goes "Pride Goeth Before The Fall"

 

[StarryEyed]

The bigger question was why Vreenak revealed he had seen through the forgery. That's signing his own death warrant. From a Romulan viewpoint, there is no way Sisko could have allowed him to leave the station alive.

I doubt it would have mattered in the end; Garak was going to blow that shuttle one way or the other.

I don't think Vreenak knew about Garak's involement and probably assumed that the forgery was a result of Starfleet Intelligence. Also, while Vreenak may not like The Federation, Starfleet or Sisko I don't think he thought for one moment they were capable of assassination. So maybe in the end Vreenak's fate was decided because he was a typical arogant Romulan who underestimated The Federation. As the saying goes "Pride Goeth Before The Fall"

I'm sure he had no idea about Garak or he would not have come in the first place.

While the Federation may not normally assassinate anyone, they don't normally trick third parties into joining them in war either. Those were desperate times.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Vreenak knew that, if the federation assassinated him, the romulan empire would declare war against the federation in the next second. And he knew that Sisko/the federation knew this.

And Vreenak didn't reveal the forgery to the romulans via subspace because such communications are not completely safe.
Vreenak didn't want to reveal the forgery to the galaxy because he wanted to have something agaist the federation in the future; he would have revealed the forgery when the time was right, when he would have benefitted most from it.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The bigger question was why Vreenak revealed he had seen through the forgery. That's signing his own death warrant. From a Romulan viewpoint, there is no way Sisko could have allowed him to leave the station alive.

I doubt it would have mattered in the end; Garak was going to blow that shuttle one way or the other.

Very true- Garak planted that bomb minutes after Vreenak got there.

I also agree that he made sure he sabotaged the com systems too.

What I wonder is why Vreenak was so happy the Federation was losing the war- no one could be THAT shortsighted.

 

[Jono]

Vreenak also might have purposely decided not to reveal his findings to the Senate so that any gains would his alone. While he has it and only him he can use it to further his personal goals but as soon as he shares it with the Senate someone higher or with more power will take over and Vreenak would not be able to get the maximum gains from it or any at all. I mean to be stereotypical the guy was a politician after all.

 

[Arpy]

So obviously the real reason is that if he told the Empire the instant he knew like anyone in the real world would have, the rest of the episode wouldn't have happened. We knew nothing of radio jamming, and if it was in place, that'd been a huge tip to the Romulans that something was up.

The Romulans could have come to investigate the death of one of their senators in orbit of DS9 for all they care.

Maybe Vreenak tried to tell home base but got a cold shoulder from pro-war powers. For all we know there was a warbird on route to destroy his shuttle before he report his findings to the Empire. Then again...being a shrewed man, he may have tried releasing his findings to anyone who's hear him - UFP anti-war parties, to the Bajorans to warn them their benevolent administrators were liars, or just on general interstellar communications bands.

...Maybe his contacts back home told him he'd done a good job and to get back so they could confirm the forgery and he could publish the truth in grandiose from the senate floor while at the same time they sent the warbird to off him - thereby getting him to willingly keep quiet till they could quiet him indefinitely.

His telling Sisko the truth was pointless and dangerous. He was putting a price on his own head, if not from Sisko (after all, the Romulans don't believe the UFP are do-gooders and themselves supercilious pimps: they think they're decent and realistic and the Feds are liars and maybe mentally-unhinged...hippie Borg that'll eventually get everyone killed) then from anyone else who might have overheard - a Bajoran, an alien, etc.

Maybe his telling Sisko was just Romulan rage or it was an attempt to see what he could get from Sisko to keep quiet. He'd have published the truth anyway (nothing Sisko could offered was worth a full scale war with the Dominion) but being a politician, he was going to make use of the opportunity before him.

The only question is why Sisko didn't fear Romulan retribution after Vreenak died. Sure he let him go because the Empire already knew the truth, but then? It must have been torture waiting for the Empire to do something before he realized they weren't going to.

Though, this doesn't work out because Garak knew Vreenak was going to figure out it was a forgery but he'd had taken too big a gamble hoping Vreenak's own government would also betrayed him. He wouldn't be privy to such info, nor gotten it in the short time since he learned Vreenak was coming to the station. Plus, Vreenak would have had some suspicion that his contacts back at base may have been among those against his aims and would have told someone else as well.

 

[neozeks]

You know, I've just had an idea. We know Vreenak was the vice-chairman of the Tal Shiar. And who was the chairman? Koval, the S31/Starfleet operative. It's possible Vreenak did communicate what he found out, but to Koval. Given their positions in the Tal Shiar and the shared dislike for the Federation and preference for the Dominion (faked, in Koval's case, of course), it's likely they were close associates. Koval, being in on Starfleet's plan, then conveniently forgot to pass the information Vreenak gave him further and what's more, probably also made sure the Tal Shiar's investigation into the explosion pointed towards the Dominion.

 

[StarryEyed]

You know, I've just had an idea. We know Vreenak was the vice-chairman of the Tal Shiar. And who was the chairman? Koval, the S31/Starfleet operative. It's possible Vreenak did communicate what he found out, but to Koval. Given their positions in the Tal Shiar and the shared dislike for the Federation and preference for the Dominion (faked, in Koval's case, of course), it's likely they were close associates. Koval, being in on Starfleet's plan, then conveniently forgot to pass the information Vreenak gave him further and what's more, probably also made sure the Tal Shiar's investigation into the explosion pointed towards the Dominion.

Very possible. I've always figured S31/Koval had a role in the whole thing. How did Garak know Vreenak's itinerary and how could he be so certain he would accept Sisko's invitation?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The bigger question was why Vreenak revealed he had seen through the forgery.

Romulan arrogance and overconfidence. I'm sure Vreenak believed that Starfleet was too "cowardly" to do anything so Rommie-like as to murder him. Vreenak probably saw Starfleet as a pack of cringing wimps who like to put on a big holier-than-thou show but are essentially toothless (hence, the peace treaty with the Doms, since those Starfleet wimps have no hope against Jem suicide runs). When he found evidence that they weren't so holy, he couldn't resist shoving it in their faces.

Vreenak had no way of knowing that this particular Starfleet captain had such a cozy relationship with a very ruthless ex-Obisidian Order agent that he'd overlook murder (and he very nearly didn't overlook it). That does not fit with Starfleet propaganda in the least.

You know, I've just had an idea. We know Vreenak was the vice-chairman of the Tal Shiar. And who was the chairman? Koval, the S31/Starfleet operative.

Cool idea!

What I wonder is why Vreenak was so happy the Federation was losing the war- no one could be THAT shortsighted.

He probably just couldn't stand those smug, holier-than-thou Feddies, which is why he pounced on evidence of their hypocrisy rather than playing it cool like a Rommie should.

The only question is why Sisko didn't fear Romulan retribution after Vreenak died. Sure he let him go because the Empire already knew the truth, but then? It must have been torture waiting for the Empire to do something before he realized they weren't going to.

Yeah he must have been sweatin' bullets that week.

 

[StarryEyed]

I guess I can see Romulan arrogance and overconfidence. We've seen real-life American politicians get so arrogantly overconfident that they find themselves in situations nearly beyond belief. The one that immediately comes to mind is Democratic candidate for President in 1988, Gary Hart. He knew the media suspected him of infidelity to his wife. The man was brilliant and had total confidence that he wouldn't be caught. And he was photographed cuddling Donna Rice on a yacht named, "Monkey Business."

You're right. Power makes one fucking stupid.

 

[Captain Robau]

neozeks wrote:
You know, I've just had an idea. We know Vreenak was the vice-chairman of the Tal Shiar. And who was the chairman? Koval, the S31/Starfleet operative. It's possible Vreenak did communicate what he found out, but to Koval. Given their positions in the Tal Shiar and the shared dislike for the Federation and preference for the Dominion (faked, in Koval's case, of course), it's likely they were close associates. Koval, being in on Starfleet's plan, then conveniently forgot to pass the information Vreenak gave him further and what's more, probably also made sure the Tal Shiar's investigation into the explosion pointed towards the Dominion.


Excellent idea. Never thought of that one and it makes good sense.

 

[Arpy]

double post