• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

How did the confederation pretty much conquer the entire galaxy? I don't buy the time needed.

hxclespaulplayer

Captain
Captain
I mean, what, did they get transwarp instead of warp in 2063? The federation charted 25% of the galaxy by 2364... I don't see how the confederation in another 40 years could have explored enough of it to kill off every major power. I think it's safe to assume that the Bajoran wormhole is undiscovered so whatever method of FTL they have, it got them far enough to make contact with the Dominion.
 
I don't think they've conquered the entire galaxy, just the bits we visited in the TNG era, which is presumably a tiny tiny fraction of if it. They did apparently take down the Borg despite them being a Delta Quadrant race, but they're a special case due to their networking and transwarp conduits.
 
Just because an authoritarian regime claims it's done something, that doesn't make it's true. Dictatorships always rule through lies.

As for the Borg, the most convincing theory I've heard is that without Voyager to devise a defense, Species 8472 devastated the Borg, and the Confederation just picked off the stragglers and claimed the credit.
 
The show spent much too little time in the Confederation reality. Shame.

Agreed. I for one would have loved an entire series about General Picard. (What can I say, I'm biased, I like Sir Patrick much better as the villain.) I'd have loved to see him lining up all those skulls and the stories behind them turned into episodes, for example. I know some Trekkies are apprehensive about dark timelines and whatnot because they clash with Trek's core idea of optimism and all, but eh... :shifty:
 
I mean, what, did they get transwarp instead of warp in 2063? The federation charted 25% of the galaxy by 2364... I don't see how the confederation in another 40 years could have explored enough of it to kill off every major power. I think it's safe to assume that the Bajoran wormhole is undiscovered so whatever method of FTL they have, it got them far enough to make contact with the Dominion.
Mirror Universe briefly had a version of the DASH by the 23rd century, and even without it had moved into areas associated now with TNG. Its possible that the Confederation would have used advanced tech like this, or for that matter just Genesis bombed and world that did not capitulate. Between magic-forgotten Starfleet tech, planting a world-wrecking bomb inside Kronos, Eugenics War era stuff and things like the Section 31 bio weapon, there's a lot of evidence that the UFP in many way restrained itself, ethically, sometimes just barely.

On the other hand, Q introduced the UFP to the Borg before they were ready. In this timeline, they were ready.
 
I don’t really find the Confederacy all that plausible myself, or at least what I saw of it. I find it hard to believe that the human race decided it was going to conquer all aliens with the resources they had. It’s been shown time and time again that other races such as the Vulcans and the Klingons were more technologically advanced, and even other races such as the Romulans were at least on equal footing with them. It’s inconceivable that these aliens couldn’t have beaten the human race, much less allow themselves to be conquered, and didn’t at least form an alliance against them. It’s all just a plot device to move the story along. I would have much preferred that the alternate future we saw was the same as the one from Past Tense, where it was implied that the human race never even left Earth by the 24th century because of the upheaval and wars due to the Bell Riots. I mean, c’mon: They even showed the Sanctuary districts, but they seemingly have nothing to do with the plot of season 2. Actually, nothing shown in Past Tense has anything to do with the story, other than some Easter egg references.
 
I’m not quite sure at this point why Adam Soong would even have anything to do with the creation of the Confederacy. I guess we have four more episodes for them to make that clear.
 
Last edited:
more beliveable if it was like what was showed in the book series, of where Terra Prime succedded and the Earth didn't join any federation, and became more inward focused, xenophobic, but not outwardly hostile. the other species made there own federation of sorts and just kind of ignored any human vessel. But yeah, the other powers have been out for hundreds of years, they wouldn't get overran by primitive humans.
 
With Adam Soong seen as the father of the Confederation Society, I have to wonder how much of the human population has been augmented, how that affected the Confederation's aggressive stance against the galaxy.

Yep, i think the Augments may have won the Eugenic Wars in this timeline and confederation technology may actually be more advanced than Federation tech, because of their higher intelligence.

Their natural aggression and ruthlessness might also explain the Confederation's focus on conquest.

By the way, i already made a thread about this, some time ago:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/cou...iverse-as-the-one-in-seeds-of-dissent.310754/
 
Yep, i think the Augments may have won the Eugenic Wars in this timeline and confederation technology may actually be more advanced than Federation tech, because of their higher intelligence.

No they didn't, because it was clearly shown that Soong broke the 'Shenzhen Convention' which presumably has something to do with genetic experimentation. There was no mention of the Eugenics wars at all, or that anyone in 2024 was genetically enhanced.
 
No they didn't, because it was clearly shown that Soong broke the 'Shenzhen Convention' which presumably has something to do with genetic experimentation. There was no mention of the Eugenics wars at all, or that anyone in 2024 was genetically enhanced.

We can't be sure for now that the Shenzhen Convention was a result of the Eugenic Wars. According to Matalas' comment on Twitter, it's possible that the EW are only about to begin:

"We discussed endlessly. We came to the conclusion that in WW3 there were several EMP bursts that kicked everyone back decades. Records of that 75 year period, the 90s on were sketchy. Maybe Spock was wrong? No easy way to do it if you want the past to look and feel like today."
 
We can't be sure for now that the Shenzhen Convention was a result of the Eugenic Wars. According to Matalas' comment on Twitter, it's possible that the EW are only about to begin:

"We discussed endlessly. We came to the conclusion that in WW3 there were several EMP bursts that kicked everyone back decades. Records of that 75 year period, the 90s on were sketchy. Maybe Spock was wrong? No easy way to do it if you want the past to look and feel like today."

Unless the last four episodes make it clear that everyone from 2024 onwards is a genetic superman thanks to Adam Soong, we don't know that that's why the Confederation came into existence. All we know right now is that there's an accord that bans genetic engineering.
 
I don’t really find the Confederacy all that plausible myself, or at least what I saw of it. I find it hard to believe that the human race decided it was going to conquer all aliens with the resources they had. It’s been shown time and time again that other races such as the Vulcans and the Klingons were more technologically advanced, and even other races such as the Romulans were at least on equal footing with them. It’s inconceivable that these aliens couldn’t have beaten the human race, much less allow themselves to be conquered, and didn’t at least form an alliance against them.

Study your history. Up until a few hundred years ago, China and the Middle East were more technologically advanced and politically/economically powerful than Europe. But Europe adopted knowledge from those more advanced cultures -- stirrups, gunpowder, printing, decimal numerals, the magnetic compass, the lateen sail -- and used that knowledge to compete with those powers aggressively, inspiring the Industrial Revolution, which enabled Europe to swiftly surpass those formerly more advanced powers and dominate them politically and economically.

Sometimes what matters is not who has more technology or power, but who wants it more. China could've had an industrial revolution 700 years before Europe did. It had all the requisite knowledge and resources, all the ingredients. But China's economy was prosperous and comfortable, and the nation had everything it needed at home, so it didn't have a strong need to innovate or change things. But Europe was a comparatively poor region, starved for resources and territory, and thus it was driven to invent faster transportation so it could more easily reach the wealth of the Far East, and to invent new manufacturing techniques so it could create domestic goods competitive with imported porcelain, silk, etc. It was that need to advance, to compete, that drove the Industrial Revolution and let Europe come out on top.

Heck, Earth did the same thing in the Prime timeline. At First Contact, it was a backward, impoverished world compared to Vulcan or Andoria, but within 200 years it had become the dominant world in the Federation, nominally equal to Vulcan, Andoria, and the rest but politically and culturally more central. Earth rose faster because it had more incentive to catch up.

There's also the fact that Vulcan, Andoria, and Tellar hated each other, so they wouldn't have formed a united front. A nascent Confederation could've exploited their rivalry and encouraged them to war with each other, then come in and picked up the pieces.


No they didn't, because it was clearly shown that Soong broke the 'Shenzhen Convention' which presumably has something to do with genetic experimentation. There was no mention of the Eugenics wars at all, or that anyone in 2024 was genetically enhanced.

I would assume that the Shenzhen Convention was a ban on eugenics that was passed because of and in the wake of the Eugenics Wars. After all, there'd be less reason for a strict international ban on genetic experimentation if the wars hadn't happened.



We can't be sure for now that the Shenzhen Convention was a result of the Eugenic Wars. According to Matalas' comment on Twitter, it's possible that the EW are only about to begin:

"We discussed endlessly. We came to the conclusion that in WW3 there were several EMP bursts that kicked everyone back decades. Records of that 75 year period, the 90s on were sketchy. Maybe Spock was wrong? No easy way to do it if you want the past to look and feel like today."

Evidently they forgot that Khan explicitly said the Botany Bay came from 1996 in The Wrath of Khan. If anyone would know for sure, he would.
 
Study your history. Up until a few hundred years ago, China and the Middle East were more technologically advanced and politically/economically powerful than Europe. But Europe adopted knowledge from those more advanced cultures -- stirrups, gunpowder, printing, decimal numerals, the magnetic compass, the lateen sail -- and used that knowledge to compete with those powers aggressively, inspiring the Industrial Revolution, which enabled Europe to swiftly surpass those formerly more advanced powers and dominate them politically and economically.

Sometimes what matters is not who has more technology or power, but who wants it more. China could've had an industrial revolution 700 years before Europe did. It had all the requisite knowledge and resources, all the ingredients. But China's economy was prosperous and comfortable, and the nation had everything it needed at home, so it didn't have a strong need to innovate or change things. But Europe was a comparatively poor region, starved for resources and territory, and thus it was driven to invent faster transportation so it could more easily reach the wealth of the Far East, and to invent new manufacturing techniques so it could create domestic goods competitive with imported porcelain, silk, etc. It was that need to advance, to compete, that drove the Industrial Revolution and let Europe come out on top.

Heck, Earth did the same thing in the Prime timeline. At First Contact, it was a backward, impoverished world compared to Vulcan or Andoria, but within 200 years it had become the dominant world in the Federation, nominally equal to Vulcan, Andoria, and the rest but politically and culturally more central. Earth rose faster because it had more incentive to catch up.

There's also the fact that Vulcan, Andoria, and Tellar hated each other, so they wouldn't have formed a united front. A nascent Confederation could've exploited their rivalry and encouraged them to war with each other, then come in and picked up the pieces.




I would assume that the Shenzhen Convention was a ban on eugenics that was passed because of and in the wake of the Eugenics Wars. After all, there'd be less reason for a strict international ban on genetic experimentation if the wars hadn't happened.





Evidently they forgot that Khan explicitly said the Botany Bay came from 1996 in The Wrath of Khan. If anyone would know for sure, he would.

What if Khan was lying for some reason? Or could he have had some faulty memory because of the long hibernation?

By the way, it's interesting that we are talking about Eugenic Wars not an Eugenic War, even WW2 is, despite having multiple factions and fronts, only talked about in singular.

Alternatively, could there have been more than one Eugenic War, with the first one ending with Khan going into exile aboard the Botany Bay?
 
Just because an authoritarian regime claims it's done something, that doesn't make it's true. Dictatorships always rule through lies.

As for the Borg, the most convincing theory I've heard is that without Voyager to devise a defense, Species 8472 devastated the Borg, and the Confederation just picked off the stragglers and claimed the credit.

^This.

And like in the Lorca incident, where I have headcanon that Burnham's crew stumbled upon the Terran elite leadership on the cusp of tearing each other to shreads after many decades of over expansion and institutional rot, Picard's lot were thrust into the Confederation mirror timeline just when all its alien slave subjects are mass revolting and the wheels are coming off a overly brutal, inefficient regime...
 
Just because an authoritarian regime claims it's done something, that doesn't make it's true. Dictatorships always rule through lies.

As for the Borg, the most convincing theory I've heard is that without Voyager to devise a defense, Species 8472 devastated the Borg, and the Confederation just picked off the stragglers and claimed the credit.

I don't think I have seen anyone else with this take so I am claiming the credit! Was rather proud of that theory too
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top